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Bumpkin

Weeks between Honbasho

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In 2020, the Olympic Games will be in Tokyo. The Nagoya basho will end on July 19. The Aki basho will begin on September 13. That is a gap of 8 weeks. Since 1958, has there ever been an 8 week gap between bashos?

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1960 - I looked this up because I wrongly remembered it as the previous Tokyo Olympics which was, of course, 1964.

Nagoya day 15 was July 10th. Aki day 1 was September 11th. 9 weeks.

1964 - Nagoya day 15 was July 5th. Aki day 1 was September 6th. 9 weeks.

 

 

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So in 1960 and 1964, the Nagoya basho started in June?

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7 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

1960 - I looked this up because I wrongly remembered it as the previous Tokyo Olympics which was, of course, 1964.

Nagoya day 15 was July 10th. Aki day 1 was September 11th. 9 weeks.

1964 - Nagoya day 15 was July 5th. Aki day 1 was September 6th. 9 weeks.

 

 

I realize the importance of starting the 2020 Nagoya basho a week early. That had to be done to avoid conflict with the the Olympics which begins five days after senshuraku.

But I don't understand why the Nagoya and Aki bashos started so early in the Olympic year of 1964. Aki basho senshuraku would have been on September 20th. However, the Olympics didn't start until October 10th, about three weeks later. There must have been another factor involved other than avoiding Olympics conflict.

I have some idle speculation about Hakuho's appearance (or lack of same) in the 2020 Nagoya basho.. Because the risk of injury is always present in sumo and since his goal is to be healthy for the opening Olympic ceremonies five days after the close of Nagoya, I wonder that even if he's injury-free, he'll go kyujo in Nagoya and possibily even the Natsu basho as well, in order to remain that way. Considering the unimportantce of appearing in Nagoya in 2020 compared to how very momentous doing the yokozuna dohyo-iri at the Olympics will be to him, sitting out the Nagoya basho may be a very wise thing to do.

Edited by sekitori

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Let’s not forget, of course, the very long gap between January 23rd and May 8th 2011 without a basho.

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2 hours ago, sekitori said:

I have some idle speculation about Hakuho's appearance (or lack of same) in the 2020 Nagoya basho.. Because the risk of injury is always present in sumo and since his goal is to be healthy for the opening Olympic ceremonies five days after the close of Nagoya, I wonder that even if he's injury-free, he'll go kyujo in Nagoya and possibily even the Natsu basho as well, in order to remain that way. Considering the unimportantce of appearing in Nagoya in 2020 compared to how very momentous doing the yokozuna dohyo-iri at the Olympics will be to him, sitting out the Nagoya basho may be a very wise thing to do.

Are you being serious? That's not how it works, and any reasonably long-time fan should know that. Rikishi, even yokozuna, can't be kyujo from a honbasho and then appear in a public setting immediately after as though nothing's wrong with them. Hakuho would be crucified by both the media and the public if he tried to pull a stunt like that, even leaving aside that the NSK wouldn't allow him to do the dohyo-iri in that scenario to begin with.

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49 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Are you being serious? That's not how it works, and any reasonably long-time fan should know that. Rikishi, even yokozuna, can't be kyujo from a honbasho and then appear in a public setting immediately after as though nothing's wrong with them. Hakuho would be crucified by both the media and the public if he tried to pull a stunt like that, even leaving aside that the NSK wouldn't allow him to do the dohyo-iri in that scenario to begin with.

So, won't this lead to a real dilemma for everyone?  What if he starts the basho and goes kyujo after, say, 6 days because of a legitimate injury.  Can he perform the dohyo-iri afterward?  If not, must he stay in and become a kinboshi machine so that he's eligible for the ceremony?

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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Are you being serious? That's not how it works, and any reasonably long-time fan should know that. Rikishi, even yokozuna, can't be kyujo from a honbasho and then appear in a public setting immediately after as though nothing's wrong with them. Hakuho would be crucified by both the media and the public if he tried to pull a stunt like that, even leaving aside that the NSK wouldn't allow him to do the dohyo-iri in that scenario to begin with.

The only precedent I can think of is the Asashōryū football incident, but he was reprimanded because he went kyujo and then was then seen playing at the same time he was supposed to be out with injury. Would it be quite as bad to appear at the Olympics after a five-day gap? If a doctor excuses him for a minor illness or injury and officially prescribes a week or two of rest, it’d be hard to do much about it. One might be suspicious but it’s hard to argue with a doctor. At that stage of his career he may also no longer care if people believe him. If doing the Olympics means more to him at that point, he could skip week two with a spell of “flu” and reasonably “recover” in time.

Not that I think Hakuho will do any of that.

Edited by Eikokurai

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Anyway, back on topic:

                       1958 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1958 Aki
                       1959 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1959 Aki
1960 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1960 Nagoya > 9 weeks < 1960 Aki
1961 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1961 Nagoya > 9 weeks < 1961 Aki
1962 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1962 Nagoya > 9 weeks < 1962 Aki
1963 Natsu > 4 weeks < 1963 Nagoya > 9 weeks < 1963 Aki
1964 Natsu > 4 weeks < 1964 Nagoya > 9 weeks < 1964 Aki
1965 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1965 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1965 Aki
1966 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1966 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1966 Aki
1967 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1967 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1967 Aki
                       1968 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1968 Aki
                       1969 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1969 Aki
                       1970 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1970 Aki
                       1971 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1971 Aki
1972 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1972 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1972 Aki
1973 Natsu > 5 weeks < 1973 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1973 Aki
                       1975 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1975 Aki
                       1976 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1976 Aki
                       1977 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1977 Aki
                       1978 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1978 Aki
                       1979 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1979 Aki
                       1980 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1980 Aki
                       1981 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1981 Aki
                       1982 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1982 Aki
                       1983 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1983 Aki
                       1984 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1984 Aki
                       1986 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1986 Aki
                       1987 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1987 Aki
                       1988 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1988 Aki
                       1989 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1989 Aki
                       1992 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1992 Aki
                       1993 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1993 Aki
                       1994 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1994 Aki
                       1995 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1995 Aki
                       1998 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1998 Aki
                       1999 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 1999 Aki
                       2004 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 2004 Aki
                       2013 Nagoya > 8 weeks < 2013 Aki


The sole case involving other tournaments:

                       1965 Kyushu > 8 weeks < 1966 Hatsu

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4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Are you being serious? That's not how it works, and any reasonably long-time fan should know that. Rikishi, even yokozuna, can't be kyujo from a honbasho and then appear in a public setting immediately after as though nothing's wrong with them. Hakuho would be crucified by both the media and the public if he tried to pull a stunt like that, even leaving aside that the NSK wouldn't allow him to do the dohyo-iri in that scenario to begin with.

Aside from this, he would also have to be critically injured, like a broken leg or something to not be able to do a simple dohyo-iri. So, the risk seems very minimal. If his leg or foot hurts or something, just load up pain meds, get a cortizone shot, or whatever and get through it.

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Also, and this is completely untrue, every time Hakuho performs a nekodamashi he's actually capturing part of his opponents life force and adding it to his own. This is the reason that he's been so healthy his whole career, and why we see him using this technique more and more often as he gets age-related injuries. He's also learned to apply a similar technique during his dohyo iri, pulling in the life force of nearby spectators; his little wrist flick at the end to break the connection really gives him away. But, anyway, that's why all the people in the front rows look so frail and elderly. 

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But aren't we ignoring the requirement to perform the dohyo iri at the Olympics? Is it even certain that the Olympic committee will want sumo in the opening ceremony this time  - have they said that this will happen? If there is more than one active Yokozuna,  wouldn't the honor go to the highest ranked (healthy) Yokozuna on the banzuke? If so, then Hakuho would need to compete and do well in the antecedent basho. Best that he wins the yusho 2 basho before the Olympics to ensure he is atop the banzuke.

 

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I assume that all active Yokozunae will perform a dohyo iri.

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42 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

I assume that all active Yokozunae will perform a dohyo iri.

I can't see a global TV audience sitting through 3 or 4 dohyo-iri.

And by the way is it carved in stone somewhere that there will be a dohyo-iri at the opening ceremony?

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1 hour ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I can't see a global TV audience sitting through 3 or 4 dohyo-iri.

And by the way is it carved in stone somewhere that there will be a dohyo-iri at the opening ceremony?

Akebono did it in the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics of 1998 in Nagano. There is no reason to believe that Hakuho won't do it in Tokyo. Takanohana, who won more yushos and is Japanese, was scheduled to perform it at Nagano but he was ill and was replaced by Akebono. 

If this same practice holds true in 2020, there will be only one dohyo-iri. Although Kisenosato is a Japanese yokozuna, Hakuho has had a far more successful career and it seems logical that if there is a dohyo-iri (and there probably will be one), he will be the person to perform it. Kisenosato and Kakuryu may no longer be active by July of 2020 but if all three present yokozunas still are,  they could be Hakuho's attendants.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics-akebono-to-lead-sumos-debut-on-olympic-stage-1141627.html

 

Edited by sekitori
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On 22/10/2018 at 13:23, Oshirokita said:

But aren't we ignoring the requirement to perform the dohyo iri at the Olympics? Is it even certain that the Olympic committee will want sumo in the opening ceremony this time  - have they said that this will happen?

lol

It is an absolute, for sure lock that if Japan wants a dohyo-iri in the opening ceremony, then they will get it. The opening ceremony is when the IOC turns anything and everything (within reason, I mean they wont allow anything truly shocking) over to the host country to tell the story of their nation. If Japan wants to devote 10 minutes to tell the story of sumo, then the IOC will be like "ok, fine just make sure thats its grand, flashy, and interesting". It can even be solemn and serious if they want, as long as its grand and there's a big story told behind it.

Edited by Rigel

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The JOC has indeed not said that Japan is interested in having sumo in the opening ceremony - depending on the amount of sumo scandals, they might skip it. (Taka in politics by then would make the case more thrilling)

The government and the ministry for the Olympics has given some signals - by financing this project

On 02/08/2018 at 11:21, Akinomaki said:

A "Beyond basho" is also planned for 2020. The minister in charge of the Olympics/Paralympics paid the NSK top a visit and asked to have this event again especially for the foreigners who come for the 2020 games, in August (but what if the games have to be postponed to October because of the heat?).

Oguruma afterwards told the press about the inclusion of sumo in the Olympic opening ceremony: "In case of a request, we want to look forward to it."

This could  mean though, that sumo will be only a separate event - there was no mention of a request made to the NSK yet.

And they could use a sandan-gamae of 2 yokozuna instead of a dohyo-iri also at the opening ceremony - they had one in Nagano - which country has so far repeated an element in the Olympic opening ceremony?

On 03/10/2017 at 20:17, Akinomaki said:

A video report from the NSK about last year's event for the Olympic-Paralympic promotion office, that decides on the projects to get funded by the government.

Edited by Akinomaki
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15 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

depending on the amount of sumo scandals, they might skip it. (Taka in politics by then would make the case more thrilling)

That would probably be the least boring inter-basho EVER. 

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