specialweek 2

Takanohana resigns

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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Simply cooperate, obey the rules - especially Taka wanted to live by his own rules, live as a lone wolf in his own world when he couldn't force the others to change like he wanted. He only knows tachi-ai, not hanashi-ai, only confrontation not cooperation, he never talks things over with others - in Japanese society that is a type of character that gets bullied (if he can't dominate the others). It doesn't help that he is loved outside of HIS closed society more than all others combined.

Which doesn't make it ok for NSK to essentially force out the aforementioned with their approach to people that beg to differ, does it?

And also - "cooperate, obey the rules" is not always an option, not with people whose only known method of management is forcing you to cooperate and obey regardless of what is right and what is helpful, beneficial or in any way logical for the company/corporation/society. I'd say that clearly "confrontation not cooperation" may be applied to just about any member of NSK leadership, Hakkaku especially, which is to be expected, rarely would anyone presume any sort of reason and common sense when dealing with people that spent 15-20 years literally butting heads with other people (does not help much with brain health and mental/cognitive capacities, I heard).

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Taka told reporters today that his intention to quit has not changed.

The rijikai today decided to have the special rijikai on the 1st to decide about the transfer of the rikishi and then about the request of Taka to quit. Taka's lawyer today handed in a new request for the transfer of the rikishi, but it was not accepted: Chiganoura's name and seal on a copy - they demand a new original.

with video http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180927/k10011646961000.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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The NSK yesterday published a denial of Taka's claims from the 25th:

Yes, Taka got a document (from the NSK lawyer) that stated that his accusations in the complaint to the Cabinet Office were entirely contrary to fact,

(the same standard protest they send to media who accuse the NSK of something without solid proof)

but, there was no expression in the text that demanded from him to admit that those claims were entirely contrary to fact.

(usually they demand something though in those letters)

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASL9V6J0SL9VUTQP04K.html

Taka surely like before won't be able to produce valid evidence for his claims - the whole thing might get labeled as his paranoia in the end.

Edited by Akinomaki
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So Taka sent a second resignation letter and was also rejected (reasons above). What happens if he doesn't do a third one? Do they keep paying him?

Are any consequences for Taka, like do they have a sort of pension scheme and he might lose it or something like that? If no conquences, why to bother?

For an European person this is hard to understand. Most would send the first one and consider the case closed. If it wasn't accepted, too bad, but no second letter would be sent...
 

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4 minutes ago, RPedro44 said:

So Taka sent a second resignation letter and was also rejected (reasons above). What happens if he doesn't do a third one? Do they keep paying him?

Are any consequences for Taka, like do they have a sort of pension scheme and he might lose it or something like that? If no conquences, why to bother?

For an European person this is hard to understand. Most would send the first one and consider the case closed. If it wasn't accepted, too bad, but no second letter would be sent...
 

Everything has to be done PROPERLY. That is the way. PROPERLY. 

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6 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Neither Wakanohana, nor Akebono nor Takanohana were (about to get) thrown out - they felt (being) forced to leave

Wasn't there a (direct?) quote from Akebono on a thread in this forum, in which he says that he asked someone from NSK if he (Akebono) could ever be chairman of NSK and was told he couldn't?

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If Takanohana wants people to believe him then he could just show the document to back up his claims. Wait... that would be too easy... (Thinkingindepth...)

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The kokugikan office lights are on tonight, every night since the news broke.

it was still dark 3 nights ago. 

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1 hour ago, RPedro44 said:

So Taka sent a second resignation letter and was also rejected (reasons above). What happens if he doesn't do a third one? Do they keep paying him?

No 2nd resignation letter - the lawyer was there to negotiate a change of words on the original - no word about the result of that yet - and to hand in a corrected version of the request to transfer the rikishi: a copy of the original: Taka surely hates to be bothered with documents, but he has to sign/seal another original and that has to be signed by Chiganoura as well.

The NSK is a bureaucracy in its purest form - like a compiler:  one formal bug in the input and the process stops

If Taka's resignation is not accepted, but he doesn't appear for work and doesn't comply with the new rules, he might get a penalty imposed on top of a total reduction of pay.

Edit: apparently the lawyer did negotiate nothing, just handed a request to accept the first request to some unrelated person at the entrance

Edited by Akinomaki
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29 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Edit: apparently the lawyer did negotiate nothing, just handed a request to accept the first request to some unrelated person at the entrance

He could have tried faxing it.... (Sigh...)

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14 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Wasn't there a (direct?) quote from Akebono on a thread in this forum, in which he says that he asked someone from NSK if he (Akebono) could ever be chairman of NSK and was told he couldn't?

Here’s the link of the John Gunning Interview with Akebono when he mentions he was told he will never be chairman. 

 

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No more lights tonight in the kokugikan office, just a random torchlight wielding security guard making his rounds. 

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On 27/09/2018 at 06:05, maorencze said:

Which doesn't make it ok for NSK to essentially force out the aforementioned with their approach to people that beg to differ, does it?

And also - "cooperate, obey the rules" is not always an option, not with people whose only known method of management is forcing you to cooperate and obey regardless of what is right and what is helpful, beneficial or in any way logical for the company/corporation/society. I'd say that clearly "confrontation not cooperation" may be applied to just about any member of NSK leadership, Hakkaku especially, which is to be expected, rarely would anyone presume any sort of reason and common sense when dealing with people that spent 15-20 years literally butting heads with other people (does not help much with brain health and mental/cognitive capacities, I heard).

I think you’re forgetting the cultural context here. Japanese society places a premium on order. What you call bullying could simply be called their way of enforcing social norms. What is right for them is, perhaps, different than whatever absolute “right” you are referring to in this comment. I agree with what you’re saying, for the record...but I recognize that view as being colored by my American values.

 

Their insistence on appropriate formality in procedures and documentation is simply an extension of the Japanese desire for order. While he is a member of their group, he is expected to conform and gambatte. This sloppiness, to them, is as disrespectful as Taka likely intends it. But within societies, no single individual holds as much power as the collective. He’s tilting at the wind by continuing to antagonize them...they will simply ensure that he cannot leave until he’s done what they require. Society has ways of punishing dissent, as evidenced here. 

 

One cannot impose change where it is not desired by the collective. 

Edited by Michishige
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Taka has not handed in the proper papers yet - today to reporters: "At the moment, I'm preparing them". https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2018/09/28/0011683859.shtml

 

The NSK demands from the ichidai-toshiyori to leave in a proper fashion - Shibatayama in the wide shows: "There are companies where people send their resignation via LINE, but we have the responsibility of a public interest corporation."

To take proper care of his deshi - Taka keeps mentioning all the time how much he cares for them - they demand from him to act in the proper form as well.

 

No sign of anybody trying to persuade Taka to stay - there is nobody like Kitanoumi around anymore - I'm sure he would again stay if Kitanoumi could ask him again.

It looks like nobody will be blamed for forcing him to leave - maybe Kyushu will not be a complete sell-out, sales start soon, but then the sumo boom will continue.

And all kinds of rumors fill the article lists: Onomatsu put the pressure on him, financial problems, he (his son as well) one step away from divorce - the overwhelming support he had during the earlier scandals has changed to indifference as the main sentiment about the situation.

Edited by Akinomaki
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Taka today had his lawyer hand over the proper document for the transfer of his deshi to the NSK lawyer - with the seals by both Taka and Chiganoura, so there is no special deficiency in it now. But he didn't hand in a new request of retirement. The lawyer thinks there is no legal problem in the old one and checks with the NSK lawyer if a new is necessary to speed up the process. http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180929/k10011649921000.html

All ichimon were prepared to accept him - and were waiting for him to ask - but Taka didn't http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20180928-OHT1T50314.html

Scarf time again

20180929s00005000377000p_thum.jpgo 20180928s00005000444000p_thum.jpgo

 

Speculation corner: Taka prepares for next year's elections to the House of Councillors http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2018/09/29/0011686188.shtml

Gossip corner: The landlord of Chiganoura-beya, Tokiwayama, the former Chiganoura, has to move out of his building - Nishonoseki-ichimon policy for heya attached oyakata http://www.zakzak.co.jp/spo/news/180929/spo1809290004-n1.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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So, to sum up, the Czech government was putting diplomatic pressure on the YDC to get Takanohana ousted from Prime Minister Abe's cabinet but the faxes weren't legible so Takanohana had to send from Chiganoura's email which caused the uproar. #nailedit

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On 28/09/2018 at 16:07, Michishige said:

I think you’re forgetting the cultural context here. Japanese society places a premium on order. What you call bullying could simply be called their way of enforcing social norms. What is right for them is, perhaps, different than whatever absolute “right” you are referring to in this comment. I agree with what you’re saying, for the record...but I recognize that view as being colored by my American values.

 

Their insistence on appropriate formality in procedures and documentation is simply an extension of the Japanese desire for order. While he is a member of their group, he is expected to conform and gambatte. This sloppiness, to them, is as disrespectful as Taka likely intends it. But within societies, no single individual holds as much power as the collective. He’s tilting at the wind by continuing to antagonize them...they will simply ensure that he cannot leave until he’s done what they require. Society has ways of punishing dissent, as evidenced here. 

 

One cannot impose change where it is not desired by the collective. 

I may have been misunderstood - I understand cultural context and accept it within Japanese lines, also in this case I'm not questioning NSK approach. I don't like it, but within Japanese standards it's OK.

What I meant was, I was trying to understand Takanohana and explain my individual (and of course subjective) interpretation of his actions, which I believe was right in a way.

Sorry for not putting it more clearly

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On 29/09/2018 at 21:00, Benevolance said:

So, to sum up, the Czech government was putting diplomatic pressure on the YDC to get Takanohana ousted from Prime Minister Abe's cabinet but the faxes weren't legible so Takanohana had to send from Chiganoura's email which caused the uproar. #nailedit

You sure are not letting our nation off the hook, are you :-D

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7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The NSK accepted Taka's retirement,  and first the transfer of his rikishi to Chiganoura-beya, at the special rijikai today https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20181001/k10011653161000.html

The English translation of the first paragraph is too good not to share. 

 

The Japan Sumo Association admitted to the retirement of the Takanohana master who had reported retirement by an extraordinary board meeting held in one day. It is now officially decided that the 22nd Grand Champion of the Championship will leave the mobsters.”

 

 

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1 hour ago, Michishige said:

The English translation of the first paragraph is too good not to share. 

 

The Japan Sumo Association admitted to the retirement of the Takanohana master who had reported retirement by an extraordinary board meeting held in one day. It is now officially decided that the 22nd Grand Champion of the Championship will leave the mobsters.”

 

 

Ha! What I get through Google is as follows which is much less fun although I would like to hear more about this "Horn World" :)

"The Japan Sumo Association approved the retirement of the Takanohana parent who had notified the retirement at an extraordinary board meeting held on the 1st. With this, it was officially decided that the major yokozuna of Heisei 22 times went off the horn world."

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Ah yes, the good old 'horny world' that I read so much about in translated articles (Laughing...)

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Yeah, "horn(y) world" is the standard machine translation for a stock term for "sumo world", as it uses a kanji that can mean "horn", and the phrase only is related to sumo because it's a stock phrase that's used in that way.  Why none of the machine translators know this is beyond me, especially given that my browser plugin knows about it.

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Takanohana gets about 10 million yen retirement money and merit bonus and is allowed to use the name Takanohana also as stage name etc. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2018/10/02/0011694118.shtml

The heya members today are moving to Chiganoura-beya

AS20181002001846_commL.jpgo AS20181002001978_commL.jpgo AS20181002001980_commL.jpgo AS20181002002045_commL.jpgo

 

The official heya site has vanished from the net, the new support site still works as blog for Taka: https://pando.life/takanohana

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201810020000391.html

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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