Aki Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Rocks 1,809]

22 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

???

Have you actually shown my analogy to not work in any way? You state it didn't. The only way you rebutted it was to suggest I did not understand an uppercut to the jaw is now currently legal. An odd thing to suggest when the argument I was making was that it should be made illegal. Something which can not occur if it were not already legal. Add to that I stated already  that is is  technically within the rules in my own post and it becomes clear that is no rebuttal.  

I'm perfectly willing to let this go. But you have not engaged my argument in any meaningful way, to suggest so is ridiculous. 

[Rocks 1,809]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Actually that isn’t quite why I said that, so all of this is based on a misunderstanding. I suppose my point there was that the act you are focused really isn’t a part of sumo anyway. Harite, like Takakeisho gives, certainly are, but violent uppercuts to the chin? Not really. It feels like trying to legislate a problem that doesn’t really exist. If it is a thing, sure, then maybe it’s worth doing something about.

We got seriously sidetracked – my fault, I shouldn’t have let myself get pulled – from my point about what the etymology of the sport’s name tells us about whether hand-to-head contact belongs in sumo or not. I really was just thinking as a linguist (which I am, sort of). I think you and I were having two different conversations.

Unbelievable. Let me get this right. "doesn’t seem to materialize all that often" isn't quite what you said.  But your point is "the act you are focused really isn’t a part of sumo anyway." So the former is not what you said, despite it being a quote,  but the latter, which is simply restating the exact same thing using different words is. That's your rebuttal? Yanking people by the hair and eye gouging doesn't really exist either. That's because they were made illegal because they resulted in injury, whether rarely used or not. They are illegal now even when unintentional.  Getting clocked in the head used to be thought of as something you just shake off, no big deal. It's clear now that isn't true. Moves which are intended to cause that should be made illegal then IMO. Unless the sport specifically intends injury. Sumo doesn't. 

 

As far as the etymology of  a sports name  football is called so because you use the feet to advance the ball usually. If you kick at the ball when it's clear you could not have hit the ball and hit your opponents legs instead it results in  a foul and possible expulsion. Just because the name implies something doesn't mean a move intended to injure and  either "doesn’t seem to materialize all that often" or "isn’t a part of sumo anyway.", whichever way you choose to say it,  doesn't justify continuing it being legal. 

Hand-to-head contact belongs in sumo. I totally agree with that. That doesn't mean that unless a certain  hand to head contact was made illegal from the start it should continue to be legal. Jamming the butt of your hand, taped up to make it even more harmful no less,  upwards into the jaw of someone rushing at you is not going to force your opponent out of the ring. And the only way it makes him touch down is if you give him a concussion. By definition it is a move intended to cause injury and should now be illegal given the medical knowledge we have IMO. A cross can cause the opponent to fall sideways and down. No injury is required. That is and should remain legal. The same way pressing the hair and head, or pushing, not choking, the throat is legal but the more dangerous forms are not.

[robnplunder 976]

8 hours ago, Benevolance said:

 

Hang on. This needs more conspiracy. And then Kakuryu wasn't hurt, but was faking it to lull Hakuho into a false sense of security, and then he defeats Hakuho on the final day, catapulting Takayasu, Goeidou and Hakuho into a three-way playoff. All of which is intended to take the heat off of Orora's sudden intai. No cameras please. 

More conspiracy theory .... Kak won't get in the way of Hak's yusho unless Kak himself is still in yusho contention.   Hak will return the favor if the situation is reversed.  That's what they talk about in their yaocho  drinking meetings.   No Mongolian will play a spoiler against another.   That's the agreement celebrated with healthy amount of beers. Takanoiwa wouldn't go along so a beer bottle has to be broken on his head.    

[Eikokurai 3,437]

28 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Unbelievable. Let me get this right. "doesn’t seem to materialize all that often" isn't quite what you said.  But your point is "the act you are focused really isn’t a part of sumo anyway." So the former is not what you said, despite it being a quote,  but the latter, which is simply restating the exact same thing using different words is. That's your rebuttal? Yanking people by the hair and eye gouging doesn't really exist either. That's because they were made illegal because they resulted in injury, whether rarely used or not. They are illegal now even when unintentional.  Getting clocked in the head used to be thought of as something you just shake off, no big deal. It's clear now that isn't true. Moves which are intended to cause that should be made illegal then IMO. Unless the sport specifically intends injury. Sumo doesn't. 

 

As far as the etymology of  a sports name  football is called so because you use the feet to advance the ball usually. If you kick at the ball when it's clear you could not have hit the ball and hit your opponents legs instead it results in  a foul and possible expulsion. Just because the name implies something doesn't mean a move intended to injure and  either "doesn’t seem to materialize all that often" or "isn’t a part of sumo anyway.", whichever way you choose to say it,  doesn't justify continuing it being legal. 

Hand-to-head contact belongs in sumo. I totally agree with that. That doesn't mean that unless a certain  hand to head contact was made illegal from the start it should continue to be legal. Jamming the butt of your hand, taped up to make it even more harmful no less,  upwards into the jaw of someone rushing at you is not going to force your opponent out of the ring. And the only way it makes him touch down is if you give him a concussion. By definition it is a move intended to cause injury and should now be illegal given the medical knowledge we have IMO. A cross can cause the opponent to fall sideways and down. No injury is required. That is and should remain legal. The same way pressing the hair and head, or pushing, not choking, the throat is legal but the more dangerous forms are not.

I didn’t deny saying what I said; I said you misread my intention by saying it. No matter. I’m past it now. You don’t seem to be though. Incidentally, I wasn’t actually having an argument with you. I don’t do rebuttals if I’m not in a debate. I guess you were looking for someone to debate with and I happened to be here commenting on something else, then I got sucked into a discussion about sumo as boxing. More fool me, I suppose.

P.S. Football was named football because the game was played on foot, running, not because you use the feet to play the ball. That’s why other codes use the word ‘football’ despite playing the game with the hands.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Eikokurai

[ALAKTORN 346]

4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

P.S. Football was named football because the game was played on foot, running, not because you use the feet to play the ball. That’s why other codes use the word ‘football’ despite playing the game with the hands.

Really? It’s often said that football/soccer started as the same thing but American football diverged as it evolved though.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

Really? It’s often said that football/soccer started as the same thing but American football diverged as it evolved though.

It’s contentious. There are two schools of thought, neither of which has definitive evidence, but there is a strong case for ‘football’ being a word that described games played on foot. I should have qualified my point above.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Rocks 1,809]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It’s contentious. There are two schools of thought, neither of which has definitive evidence, but there is a strong case for ‘football’ being a word that described games played on foot. I should have qualified my point above.

Then why state it as a fact in reply to me? And many would argue there is not only not a strong case for it, there is very little case at all. It simply a modern attempt to address an issue which never really was an issue to begin with. Explaining why modern games use the word football yet don't really use the foot much.   They have have evolved away from a lot of kicking. There used to be much more, even in American football.  There's no problem to solve.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

21 minutes ago, Rocks said:

There's no problem to solve.

Fine, and we'll all be happy now if you both stop trying.

[Rob S. 42]

16 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

He looks like 650 pounds of chewed bubblegum.

Sad. 

[robnplunder 976]

Loved that reaction by Tokushoryu.   I thought I saw a small smile as well.   Despite today's loss to the aforementioned, I think Yago will do well in Makuuchi.

 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

50 minutes ago, Rob S. said:

He looks like 650 pounds of chewed bubblegum.

Sad. 

Harsh. He’s only 644lbs. 

[Mufuu 13]

Oof: Aoiyama no henka!

[Fukuyamada 42]

Congratulations Hakuho!

[Jabbamaru 167]

41 to the MF GOAT!

Hakuho; BANzAI! BANzAI! BANzAI!

Tochi; congrats!

Ichi; gambate!

 

[Isao 23]

Congratulations, Hakuhou-daiyokozuna! He even knows how to give decent interviews!

[robnplunder 976]

Tochinoshin needs no more win - 8 is enough.   Kise needs no more win.  10 is enough for a triumph return.   Mita needs one more win to keep it going.  Ichinojo needs one more win to keep his Sekiwake rank.   He is on a kachikosh run going back more than a year.   Really?  Really.  

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Although the tournament ended one day earlier than the unstated ideal (Day 14 rather than Day 15), this was a pretty amazing day in the dohyo all around.  Mitakeumi got his KK, and did it with distinction (and with some great sumo) against Ozeki Takayasu.  Kisenosato got double digit wins, and did it with (a little at least) distinction against top-ranked Yokozuna, Kakuryu.  And Hakuho got his 1,000th Top Division win, his 41st championship, and kept his zenshoyusho hopes alive. That's what you call a win-win-win!  I couldn't have orchestrated it better myself.  

[Isao 23]

53 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Tochinoshin needs no more win - 8 is enough.   Kise needs no more win.  10 is enough for a triumph return.   Mita needs one more win to keep it going.  Ichinojo needs one more win to keep his Sekiwake rank.   He is on a kachikosh run going back more than a year.   Really?  Really.  

Before Mitakeumi's match, NHK commentator said that ozeki run was over for him.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Isao

[YoungSumo 93]

What a day. Mitakeumi kachikoshi, Tochinoshin kachikoshi and most of all Kise's 10th win. One more day to go with only a few things to be found out left to go (will Chiyomaru stay in makuuchi, will Kaisei or Myogiryu replace Tamawashi and komusbuki and will Ichinojo and Takakeisho swap ranks?) and its fair to say now that this has been an amazing tournament.

[Dapeng 236]

12 minutes ago, Isao said:

Before Mitakeumi's match, NHK commentator said that ozeki run was over for him.

Not completely over yet, if he get 9win this basho and a excellent performance (eg. yusho or 13 wins) next basho, he still can be promoted. 

[Dapeng 236]

Can Hakuho reach yokozuna 1000 wins? Just 200 wins away. If he can maintain 60-70 wins a year, it only take 3 years, i.e., by the end of 2021.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

7 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Can Hakuho reach yokozuna 1000 wins? Just 200 wins away. If he can maintain 60-70 wins a year, it only take 3 years, i.e., by the end of 2021.

The only one stopping him is himself.

[Morty 1,505]

Momentous day and momentous last match. 1000 Makuuchi wins and a 41st Yusho in the same match. It has been a privilege to watch this supreme athlete ply his trade for the past decade. It will be a long time until these records get broken (if ever). He is the sumo equivalent of Ruth, Woods, Merckx, Bradman, Gretzsky, Williams, etc - better than all the rest and just the best that his sport has ever seen.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Question for those of you who've been following sumo for more years than I.  Right up until the 6th bout of Day 14's broadcast, the torikumi matchups for Day 15 were not being announced (i.e., hadn't been made official).  Does this happen with any frequency?  I can't say that I have noticed this in the past, and the NHK commentators saw fit to remark on the fact that the matchups were not as yet released.  I wonder what decisions were holding things up? 

[Akinomaki 40,774]

16 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Question for those of you who've been following sumo for more years than I.  Right up until the 6th bout of Day 14's broadcast, the torikumi matchups for Day 15 were not being announced (i.e., hadn't been made official).  Does this happen with any frequency?  I can't say that I have noticed this in the past, and the NHK commentators saw fit to remark on the fact that the matchups were not as yet released.  I wonder what decisions were holding things up? 

This happens every basho for the day 15 torikumi - to allow for as many meaningful torikumi as possible, in which rikishi don't tend to go easy to help the kachi-koshi of others - but the exact time of publishing them might differ from basho to basho

Edited September 22, 2018 by Akinomaki