Aki Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Umizoi 27]

1 hour ago, Joaoiyama said:

I actually think he was mad and disappointed at Ichinojo for giving him an easy win, when Ichinojo went for the left over grip the match was over and you could see the anger on Hakuho's face.

ichinojo win in may 2018 and had a good defense in january 2018 ; i not saw anger but hunger to win (eye of tiger ?) motivated  by his self-worth.

It will be a sad day for his self esteem when ichinojo will be a real threat for him.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Umizoi

[Jakusotsu 5,995]

27 minutes ago, Umizoi said:

He would be a sad day for his self esteem when ichinojo will be a real threat for him.

Will = would. Unfortunately, Ichinojo's career seems to be ground to a halt the same way as similar-built, similar-style, similar-hyped Kotonowaka's. One man's knee is the other man's back.

[Kuroyama 715]

8 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Still, Endo had the other hand firmly on the ground in all four attempts while it was always Kise who jumped the gun without touching down, and yet the gyoji kept on scolding Endo everytime. Bizarre!

Every time, Endo swung his arm down and moved forward forward as if he were touching down and starting off, but missed the ground by inches.

[Joaoiyama 308]

22 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

 

Ichinojo is the best young mongolian talent now that Terunofuji is out of the picture, I think Hakuhou always tries make a point to teach him not to give up easily and literally "push" him to do more.  Ichinojo not improving like he should must be frustrating him. Still there's the word dame which basicallly means "not good' in dame oshi so whatever the reason it's not something he should do.

By no means it's right for him to push further than needed when it's a clear win,  injuries can happen to the rikishi and the people around the dohyo also makes him look bad to some. I remember a video of 18 or 19 year old Hakuho getting roughed up in keiko by Asashoryu, Kakuryu also got a lot of dame-oshi by Hakuho and Harumafuji even before he was an Ozeki. I believe it's their way of motivating each other to go harder, not saying it's a mongolian only thing but the Asashoryu era was based around this mindset.

[Jakusotsu 5,995]

1 minute ago, Kuroyama said:

Every time, Endo swung his arm down and moved forward forward as if he were touching down and starting off, but missed the ground by inches.

Endo and Kisenosato moved forward simultaneously each time, but none of Kisenosato's hands touched the ground. Ever. Endo always had one hand down, so why is he to blame?

[dingo 1,267]

Ikioi doesn't seem to have much ikioi this basho (well, someone had to say it...). 

Myogiryuu has been quietly making a comeback to his peak days, showing that I was wrong to think that he will fade away and not rise back to high Makuuchi again, as a few older Makuuchi mainstays have done. Instead with some luck he might even end up in sanyaku. 

[Jabbamaru 167]

3 more matamatamatas to KiseNŌGAKUsato Aki's colection...Or should i call him KABUKIsenosato? Im no PhD on japanese culture you guys know..

[Joaoiyama 308]

Ichinojo is too big right now, his mobility must be compromised and he needs to be stronger not bigger. 225 kilos still geting pushed out regularly is a sign that things are not working that well, he should be around 180 to 190 kilos with muscle mass.

At 25 years old he is a young man with a lot more sumo years in front of him, he needs to think ahead of time to see how he wants to be 7/8 years from now, debilitated with health problems duo to excessive weight or strong and healthy with a good career ? I believe he will somehow get his mojo back and return or evolve to Ichimojo form.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Joaoiyama

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Perhaps the most important bout on Day 11 will be that between Hakuho and Takayasu.  I think Hakuho will prevail, but Takayasu is no "pushover".  Kakuryu should defeat the battered Tochinoshin, and Kise should be able to handle Ichinojo.  The leaderboard will probably remain more or less the same going into Day 12.  However, if Takayasu loses, then the gap between the leaders and the trailers will extend to two wins.  At this point, the tournament is basically waiting to see who will spoil things for either Kakuryu or Hakuho.  But in sumo, there is always more to follow than just the leaderboard...

[Asashosakari 19,500]

52 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

One man's knee is the other man's back.

Now that's a kyujo report I'm not looking forward to seeing...

[Katooshu 3,265]

45 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

Ichinojo is too big right now, his mobility must be compromised and he needs to be stronger not bigger. 225 kilos still geting pushed out regularly is a sign that things are not working that well, he should be around 180 to 190 kilos with muscle mass.

At 25 years old he is a young man with a lot more sumo years in front of him, he needs to think ahead of time to see how he wants to be 7/8 years from now, debilitated with health problems duo to excessive weight or strong and healthy with a good career ? I believe he will somehow get his mojo back and return or evolve to Ichimojo form.

Have things not been working that well? He's on a 6 KK streak, with the last 3 in sanyaku. That streak will likely end this tournament, but he's arguably been on the most consistently successful run of his career.

You make valid points, but I don't think his recent effectiveness really makes a case against the weight.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Katooshu

[Rigel 62]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Endo and Kisenosato moved forward simultaneously each time, but none of Kisenosato's hands touched the ground. Ever. Endo always had one hand down, so why is he to blame?

The 1st matta was clearly endo's fault. After that the gyoji got picky and focused on Endo since he started it.

Edit: To elaborate, there is an unwritten rule in sumo that when you are fighting someone in sanyaku, the higher ranked guy should have the privilege of starting the match. Sometimes they'll get tired of waiting, put their hand down, and let the lower ranked guy start, but kisenosato refused to do that. He was the yokozuna, and he wanted to decide when they start so he waited for endo to put his hand down. And waited and waited. Finally he just went hoping endo would go but he didn't.

After that, the gyoji was just mad at endo, ignored kise, and insisted that endo do a perfect tachiai with his hand on the ground.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Rigel

[Rocks 1,809]

8 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Have things not been working that well? He's on a 6 KK streak, and that includes 3 in sanyaku. That is likely to end this tournament, but he's arguably been on his most consistently successful run of his career.

 

It's true,  very consistent for him and I still expect him to get at least 3 more wins this basho. I don't think his current issues are his back either. I think he is frustrated. Especially seeing Mitakeumi, a guy he had handled well till this year, surpass him. I think a bit of jealously and impatience did him in this basho. I expect him to bounce back and at least KK easily next basho.

[Feginowaka 53]

2 hours ago, Rainoyama said:

 

Ichinojo is the best young mongolian talent now that Terunofuji is out of the picture, I think Hakuhou always tries make a point to teach him not to give up easily and literally "push" him to do more.  Ichinojo not improving like he should must be frustrating him. Hakuhou is still dominant but he knows he is nearing to the end of his career, he's going to be around until the olympics if he can, but is going to miss a few bashos every year, Kakuryu has never been this good at age 33 is going to dominate for a bit I think but is not going to last forever either. Ichinojo is the best guy from Mongolia after they are gone ( Chiyoshoma is not as good, Daishoho and Mitoryu are promising but I don't know if they'll ever be even Ozeki, Asashoryu's nephew seems pretty good but it's too early to tell just how much). Still there's the word dame which basicallly means "not good' in dame oshi so whatever the reason it's not something he should do.

When talking about Mongolians, you should also mention Takanoiwa.
After all it was him, who caused the Harumafuji-scandal by claiming that the time of the current (Mongolian) Yokozunas will soon be over and that it will their (his, Ichinojos and other younger Mongolians) time after that … or something like that...

He might have the potential for Sanyaku as well as Mitoryu, but time will tell

[Jakusotsu 5,995]

22 minutes ago, Feginowaka said:

He might have the potential for Sanyaku as well as Mitoryu, but time will tell

Oh he had, about four years ago when he still was young. Now he's just trudging along like Arawashi et al.

Edit: To add some substance to harshness - he never managed KK above M8 in six attempts. No wonder Harumafuji got mad.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Jakusotsu

[Katooshu 3,265]

Mitoryu's sumo just looks so bad so often in lower juryo. Very clumsy, and it's striking how easily opponents move back his 190kg and send him teetering across the dohyo. And even when he wins he's usually had to come back from some tough spots. It's early days, and he's shown enough strength to hold his spot at the lower juryo ranks, but I can't say I am filled with optimism about him climbing anywhere near the top of makuuchi. I think he actually looked better when he was a 165kg amateur beating the likes of Asanoyama and Yutakayama.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Katooshu

[Benihana 1,929]

13 hours ago, kuroimori said:

Matta-Marathon

Let's call it a mattathon from today on.

13 hours ago, Shio-kago said:

Takarafuji steps a little to the left each time, just as Abi thrusts, diffusing his power, and wins comfortably. Made it look easy. Nice.

I'm a bit disappointed by Kintamayama. I expected some joke that Abi couldn't win, because there was no neck to push, but nothing happened :(

Going for the lift-up-game wasn't a smart move by Kaisei. At one point it looked like lifted up himself. But 4-6 on day 10 as M1 isn't a bad result for him. Wish he'd transform some of his fat into muscles (Tochi-style), he'd be a sanyaku regular.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Benihana

[Rocks 1,809]

21 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Mitoryu's sumo just looks so bad so often in lower juryo. Very clumsy, and it's striking how easily opponents move back his 190kg and send him teetering across the dohyo. And even when he wins he's usually had to come back from some tough spots. It's early days, and he's shown enough strength to hold his spot at the lower juryo ranks, but I can't say I am filled with optimism about him climbing anywhere near the top of the makuuchi. I think he actually looked better when he was a 165kg amateur beating the like of Asanoyama and Yutakayama.

 

Yes, I have been watching just about all his matches the last few basho and it's stunning how little technique he has. He reminds me of Ichinojo but with a distinct lack of real power outside of his comfort zone. Unless he buckles down and really works at his sumo I don't see him ever spending much time in makuuchi. He has no drive.  But we'll see. Ryuden made me feel the same in Juryo but the guy has turned it around 180 degrees. Ryuden is far from great but he is in every match for the whole thing. That wasn't true for a good part of his time in Juryo IMO, despite the overall positive record.

[Washuyama 641]

24 minutes ago, Benihana said:

I expected some joke that Abi couldn't win, because there was no neck to push, 

I was thinking the same thing...  Calling it Nodo-whoops or something like that...

[Asashosakari 19,500]

54 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Mitoryu's sumo just looks so bad so often in lower juryo. Very clumsy, and it's striking how easily opponents move back his 190kg and send him teetering across the dohyo.

Yeah, if I remember correctly I remarked on that a few basho back, too. It's really quite astounding how even small opponents can make him "float", and often not even requiring morozashi for it. He just doesn't seem to know any fundamentals about keeping his weight anchored to the ground. Even Ichinojo, for as bad as he tends to be on his B days, at least manages to look heavy as he gets moved back. Mitoryu looks like a random 140 kg guy when it happens.

Maybe he's got serious issues with his feet or something? Never really seen anything like it from a sekitori-caliber rikishi outside of guys fresh off a serious foot injury (e.g. Sadanoumi down in makushita in 2012/13, who really struggled to hold his ground for a while back then).

Edited September 18, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 19,500]

35 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Let's call it a mattathon from today on.

Maybe they can equip the gyoji with a matta horn to properly admonish the rikishi.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

34 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Yeah, if I remember correctly I remarked on that a few basho back, too. It's really quite astounding how even small opponents can make him "float", and often not even requiring morozashi for it. He just doesn't seem to know any fundamentals about keeping his weight anchored to the ground. Even Ichinojo, for as bad as he tends to be on his B days, at least manages to look heavy as he gets moved back. Mitoryu looks like a random 140 kg guy when it happens.

Maybe he's got serious issues with his feet or something? Never really seen anything like it from a sekitori-caliber rikishi outside of guys fresh off a serious foot injury (e.g. Sadanoumi down in makushita in 2012/13, who really struggled to hold his ground for a while back then).

It's the oyakata in my opinion. While he's out singing and drinking , his stable is crumbling. Mitoryu has likely had little in the way of real coaching and technical instruction since college and sumo school. Sure, he may get the odd pointer here and there on jungyo or at ichmon meets, but by-and-large his sumo education has been finished for some time. Nishikido has long been gulity of derelicition of duty, and it shows in his deshi.

[Joaoiyama 308]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Have things not been working that well? He's on a 6 KK streak, with the last 3 in sanyaku. That streak will likely end this tournament, but he's arguably been on the most consistently successful run of his career.

You make valid points, but I don't think his recent effectiveness really makes a case against the weight.

He is not looking terrible but he was supposed to be established by now, getting KK but looking the opposite of impressive is a sign of unreached potential. Indeed he is consistant with the numbers but his variable perfomances are a shame to watch considering his potential.

Now i disagree on the weight subject, if he was in a better shape it's likely that a 10 win record would've happened at sanyaku because he doesn't know how to use his current huge frame. Even when he beats some top guys he loses to random guys like he's just another rikishi destined to journey through maegashira ranks. A better condition means losing some fat and building some muscle, the weight will come down sure but the point is what he can or can't do with his body mass, it amazes me that guys like Shohozan can yorikiri Ichinojo the same basho he beats Hakuho. 

Lack of mobility is his greatest flaw and such huge frame surely doesn't help.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Joaoiyama

[Fukurou 534]

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Kyokutaisei aggravating his injury: "I should rest till it's properly healed" http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20180918/sum18091821560018-n1.html

kyujo forecast for tomorrow: 95%

He's out.

[Gurowake 4,088]

Goeido's last maegashira match (barring withdrawals of any Yokozuna) will be 6-4 Abi on Day 12, skipping over 1-9 Endo as well as 3-7 Chiyonokuni.  It seems unlikely Endo will be picked for Yusho-chaser Takayasu's last maegashira match, whether that's Day 13 or 14.  I can't make a reasonable guess as to whether they'll help Tochinoshin out by giving him a struggling maegashira with Ozeki demotion on the line.  Tochinoshin's last maegashira match isn't until Day 14, so stuff can happen before then.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Gurowake