YDC convenes

[Kintamayama 44,349]

22 hours ago, Dapeng said:

which he is way beyond his ability

I don't think aiming for a yusho is beyond his ability. Getting a yusho? That's a different story altogether.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

An article about goal setting in Japan

http://www.japanintercultural.com/en/news/default.aspx?newsID=248

Article contacts Japanese and American management style but applies here of you substitute the YDC and your own wonder.

[Churaumi 728]

I agree they are ideally supposed to be the top finishers every time. But, the YDC doesn’t treat it that way. If they did, there would be calls for them to retire when that wasn’t the case, and they wouldn’t tolerate the constant kyujo. I’m well documented here in previous threads that I think yokozuna get too much slack and that as soon as they can’t live up to the ideal they should go. One or two basho kyujo here or there, but not what particularly Kisenosato and Kakuryu got away with. In Churaumi World there would be fewer yokozuna and they wouldn’t reign for long. Like I’ve said before, it’s an honorific, not a rank a person is meant to cling to for years. I may be ridiculous, but then so is the YDC.

As for their bias toward Kisenosato, well...of course they are biased toward him. It’s a sport that openly discriminates against foreigners. Get over it. At least they had the decency to back off the veiled threats for Harumafuji and Kakuryu to retire when they realized their Japanese yokozuna was going to be out for a long time. Then they got less interested in the ideals of yokozunahood and more interested in everyone coming back healthy and putting on good shows for the fans. I wouldn’t ever accuse the YDC of being too principled.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Churaumi
Autocorrect is worse than the YDC sometimes.

[Fukurou 534]

I know people here recall when Takanohana missed 7 straight. Japanese rikishi, pretty popular with the fans, IIRC. But the YDC came down on him to come back or retire. (he came back and was the jun-yusho at 12-3 but was re-injured, missed the next basho, retired in the middle of the following basho while 4-4)   I'm trying to figure out why the YDC isn't coming right out and telling Kise to get back onto the doyho or retire as they did Taka. Surely there's more to it than the "long time without Japanese yokozuna" thing.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

31 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

I know people here recall when Takanohana missed 7 straight. Japanese rikishi, pretty popular with the fans, IIRC. But the YDC came down on him to come back or retire. (he came back and was the jun-yusho at 12-3 but was re-injured, missed the next basho, retired in the middle of the following basho while 4-4)   I'm trying to figure out why the YDC isn't coming right out and telling Kise to get back onto the doyho or retire as they did Taka. Surely there's more to it than the "long time without Japanese yokozuna" thing.

Some of the rumors kicking around the sumo Facebook groups is that a certain political party is angling for an Olympic dohyoiri by a Japanese yokozuna. Don't ask me who what or when.

[Fukurou 534]

39 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Some of the rumors kicking around the sumo Facebook groups is that a certain political party is angling for an Olympic dohyoiri by a Japanese yokozuna. Don't ask me who what or when.

So they've got 2 years to get someone up there then. Better hope Mitakeumi or someone gets his act together.

[Stein 30]

On 25/7/2018 at 02:43, Bumpkin said:

It doesn't matter what the YDC says. Kisenosato is done. Stick a fork in him. I predict that he will enter Aki, lose two bouts early and promptly retire.

Hey, there have been bigger comebacks, like George Foreman in boxing...

[Asashosakari 18,784]

1 hour ago, Fukurou said:

I know people here recall when Takanohana missed 7 straight. Japanese rikishi, pretty popular with the fans, IIRC. But the YDC came down on him to come back or retire. (he came back and was the jun-yusho at 12-3 but was re-injured, missed the next basho, retired in the middle of the following basho while 4-4)   I'm trying to figure out why the YDC isn't coming right out and telling Kise to get back onto the doyho or retire as they did Taka. Surely there's more to it than the "long time without Japanese yokozuna" thing.

I daresay it's a pretty crucial difference that Kisenosato hasn't missed 7 straight. He made 4 futile attempts at competing, in part to appease various people, and has since missed 3 straight (in addition to one more in between the earlier tournaments).

As for the supposed pro-Japanese/anti-foreigner bias of the YDC, I remain amazed how many people don't seem to understand that a large part of the leniency shown towards Kisenosato is because he got seriously injured in his very first yokozuna basho. Trying to compare it to YDC comments on yokozuna who had been at the rank for a while and seemed to undergo normal physical decline makes zero sense. Criticize them for living in a make-believe world where Kisenosato's career can still be salvaged, but it's not a Japan/not-Japan thing.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Dapeng 232]

14 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I don't think aiming for a yusho is beyond his ability. Getting a yusho? That's a different story altogether.

Sure sure, aiming for yusho is not at all beyond his ability ... 

[Rocks 1,807]

30 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I daresay it's a pretty crucial difference that Kisenosato hasn't missed 7 straight. He made 4 futile attempts at competing, in part to appease various people, and has since missed 3 straight (in addition to one more in between the earlier tournaments).

As for the supposed pro-Japanese/anti-foreigner bias of the YDC, I remain amazed how many people don't seem to understand that a large part of the leniency shown towards Kisenosato is because he got seriously injured in his very first yokozuna basho. Trying to compare it to YDC comments on yokozuna who had been at the rank for a while and seemed to undergo normal physical decline makes zero sense. Criticize them for living in a make-believe world where Kisenosato's career can still be salvaged, but it's not a Japan/not-Japan thing.

I'd agree with this completely and also note Takanohana already had 22 yusho under his belt and  is a notorious diva . I'd just add that if Kisenosato is done it is a genuine tragedy, at least as far as a sporting career is concerned. To reach what you have been striving for all your life and have it taken away almost the moment you receive it is pretty rough. People, not just Kise,  don't want to see that and will avoid acknowledging it for as long as reasonably possible.  I'm glad he is going to finally come back in Sept. and while I doubt I will be picking him to win anything I will be more than glad to be wrong about it.

[Fukurou 534]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

I'm glad he is going to finally come back in Sept.

Unless he's 100% committed to this already I'll believe that when he sets foot in the ring.

[Rocks 1,807]

55 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

Unless he's 100% committed to this already I'll believe that when he sets foot in the ring.

Me too, but I think he is. I think he wants to come back in Tokyo and waiting till January is pushing it too far.

[ryafuji 807]

I can't see how waiting any longer will benefit him. Do or die in September. And by "do" I mean a kachi-koshi. Anything else is a bonus after being out for so long. An 8-7 would be something to build on for November.

Edited July 27, 2018 by ryafuji

[ALAKTORN 346]

19 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

As for the supposed pro-Japanese/anti-foreigner bias of the YDC, I remain amazed how many people don't seem to understand that a large part of the leniency shown towards Kisenosato is because he got seriously injured in his very first yokozuna basho.

I don’t see how that makes a difference. His situation is very sad but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be expected to act like one of his rank– yokozuna. Amount of time at it should be meaningless.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

32 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

I don’t see how that makes a difference. His situation is very sad but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be expected to act like one of his rank– yokozuna. Amount of time at it should be meaningless.

The YDC would be foolish to force out any Yokozuna after when he got injured in his first tournament. Especially considering what happened at the end. Everybody, the YDC, the NSK, and even the fans just want him to complete a basho. I’m not sure how that’s hard to comprehend.

[ALAKTORN 346]

49 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

The YDC would be foolish to force out any Yokozuna after when he got injured in his first tournament. Especially considering what happened at the end. Everybody, the YDC, the NSK, and even the fans just want him to complete a basho. I’m not sure how that’s hard to comprehend.

I’m of the opinion he should’ve retired 2 basho after his injury so… yeah really hard to comprehend for me. It’s clear his career is over and it’s not by shaming the yokozuna title (for lack of better wording) that things will be better.

[Asashosakari 18,784]

1 hour ago, ALAKTORN said:

I don’t see how that makes a difference. His situation is very sad but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be expected to act like one of his rank– yokozuna. Amount of time at it should be meaningless.

As was said in a different context recently:

On 7/17/2018 at 11:27, Akinomaki said:

I think these discussions are related to the difference how ranks and degrees in martial arts are perceived in Japan compared to the Western countries. In Japan you do just enough to earn the rank and then mature into it, grow into it AFTER you get promoted, while the Western way is that they have to be fully able to perform at the rank before they get it.

Those who are able to fully mature in the rank then can go for the next rank, while the others stagnate, but still fill the rank with a satisfying performance.

The early injury robbed Kisenosato of the opportunity to undergo that process of maturing into the rank. The YDC et al. want to see him get a second chance at it, even if it ends up as a decisive failure.

[Kintamayama 44,349]

1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

The YDC would be foolish to force out any Yokozuna after when he got injured in his first tournament. Especially considering what happened at the end. Everybody, the YDC, the NSK, and even the fans just want him to complete a basho. I’m not sure how that’s hard to comprehend.

Simple. If you don't like Kisenosato that much or worse, it's hard to comprehend. It's always a personal thing. It's subjective. 

[Dapeng 232]

The bad luck of Kisenosato is not that he got injured at his very first yokozuna basho. It is that he lives in the era of Hakuho the GOAT.

[orandashoho 720]

5 hours ago, Dapeng said:

It is that he lives in the era of Hakuho the GOAT.

Or else he could have been promoted in May 2014, when his promotion to Yokozuna has been actively blocked by a loss against Hakuho. Or even earlier.

All the more heartwrenching is that his debilitating injury was caused by the man who would drop out of contention a mere month after Kisenosato did, Ozeki Terunofuji, a very ill man who is now dropping to mid-Makushita.

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by orandashoho

[ALAKTORN 346]

57 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

All the more heartwrenching is that his debilitating injury was caused by the man who would drop out of contention a mere month after Kisenosato did, Ozeki Terunofuji, a very ill man who is now dropping to mid-Makushita.

 

Wasn’t it Harumafuji on day 14 that caused the injury…? And Kisenosato had to beat Terunofuji twice on day 15 while injured.

14 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Simple. If you don't like Kisenosato that much or worse, it's hard to comprehend. It's always a personal thing. It's subjective. 

I have nothing against Kisenosato, I was happy he finally managed to get promoted, can’t you see my profile picture? I just think he should face reality like a man and have retired after the 2 basho he pulled out of. His career is over but a lot of people seem to have a hard time to come to terms with that.

Edited July 28, 2018 by ALAKTORN

[Kintamayama 44,349]

33 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

His career is over but a lot of people seem to have a hard time to come to terms with that.

You  don't know that. Nobody knows that. We'll have to wait and see about that.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

10 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

You  don't know that. Nobody knows that. We'll have to wait and see about that.

Kisenosato knows.

I believe the purpose of his own statement about the next basho he enters being make or break was to prepare the fans for the worst.

[Dapeng 232]

1 hour ago, orandashoho said:

All the more heartwrenching is that his debilitating injury was caused by the man who would drop out of contention a mere month after Kisenosato did, Ozeki Terunofuji, a very ill man who is now dropping to mid-Makushita.

You mean Harumafuji? No one blamed Harumafuji for Kisenosato's injury. However, it was the first of a catastrophic series of events that shocked the sumo world.  

[orandashoho 720]

58 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

Wasn’t it Harumafuji on day 14 that caused the injury…? And Kisenosato had to beat Terunofuji twice on day 15 while injured.

Oops. I stand corrected. It somehow got stuck in my mind that it had been Terunofuji, perhaps because he needed the double victory against him.

5 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

You mean Harumafuji? No one blamed Harumafuji for Kisenosato's injury. However, it was the first of a catastrophic series of events that shocked the sumo world.  

I do not blame Harumafuji for anything. It was a genuine mistake brought on by faulty memory, now corrected.
BTW, I would like to know how Harumafuji is doing. I presume he is still an Isegahama consultant, but it's very quiet around him. I hope this quiet has resulted in a number of nice paintings.