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Nagoya Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Many sports result in lower life expectancies for athletes. Sumo isn't alone in that.

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1 hour ago, Morty said:

living the "sumo life" for 20 years makes it hard to quit when you finish because it is all you know

The problem is to spot the unhealthy part in that sumo life - it's maybe rather the general lack of a sense for taking care of your (battered) body.

Chanko nabe is a very healthy diet, eating just 2 meals a day and plenty of exercise also are a healthy lifestyle. Problematic are excessive amounts of white rice, but rather of sweets and hamburgers and especially of alcohol to get fat - the most unhealthy part of sumo life are the dinner(s and) parties with supporters.

For a TV program a couple of months ago the lifestyle in a sumo club was checked - the one with a bad health was the coach: because he didn't stick to the sumo life, but took some easy calories here and there while doing PC work.

I think the lack of health awareness among - most of all former - sumo wrestlers is what will lead to a shorter life expectancy. The rikishi finish a career with a body wrecked by multiple (uncured) injuries, the parties with or without supporters may go on and the exercise amount goes down.

Edited by Akinomaki
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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

I think the lack of health awareness among - most of all former - sumo wrestlers is what will lead to a shorter life expectancy. The rikishi finish a career with a body wrecked by multiple (uncured) injuries, the parties with or without supporters may go on and the exercise amount goes down.

All sumo wrestlers suffer from metabolic syndrome during their active careers. They incur irreversible damage to their body already while being active. The most obvious is the strikingly high prevalence of type II diabetes. 

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It's much healthier to skip any statements on the internet that begin with "All..."

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6 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Takanohana slimmed down quite neatly.

My arguments were'nt about the exceptions, it's about the +90% of rikishi that are seriously unhealthy and uneducated about life after sumo. 

I don't think sumo needs do be all tall lanky guys fighting to see who has the better technique, everyone doesn't need to be obliged to be overweight either. There has to be a balance. I want to see healthy top level rikishi don't matter the weight or height. I want to see retired rikishi living good lives after sumo, not talking about the rikishi that reached high but the ones who didn't have it in them and had to adapt to the real world outside of sumo. 

In the end it's all about quality of life in and outside the sumo world. Not only about sports but about regular people too, we are drinking and eating ourselves to the grave because of our lifestyles in the society. It's a change that needs to happen all around, i see a start in the world but not in sumo, that's what needs to change.

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Heavy rikishies have huge advantage, which motivate them to eat as much as possible to get heavier and heavier, leading to various irreversible health problems. There must be a mechanism to make too heavy rikishies (eg. >130 kg) in disadvantage, or lighter rikishies in advantage. Otherwise the problem will never get solved. 

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I'm looking forward to get to know how the health of the rikishi in Naruto-beya will develop. The oyakata recently had studied at university especially about training methods to avoid injuries - and on TV it always gets emphasized that by drinking half a liter of plain yogurt a day, he kept his blood sugar at an excellent level - taking care of more healthy nutrition is also something the heya appears to be a front-runner.

With a few improvements like that, the general health level in sumo can get much better, without having to change the sumo way.

Edited by Akinomaki
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Very busy days...just saw senshuraku now...wow! Mita X Yutaka! AWESOME!

Ichi, wanpaku! Dont hurt your litle friends! No candy for you!

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7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I'm looking forward to get to know how the health of the rikishi in Naruto-beya will develop. The oyakata recently had studied at university especially about training methods to avoid injuries - and on TV it always gets emphasized that by drinking half a liter of plain yogurt a day, he kept his blood sugar at an excellent level - taking care of more healthy nutrition is also something the heya appears to be a front-runner.

With a few improvements like that, the general health level in sumo can get much better, without having to change the sumo way.

If Naruto-beya can produce winning rikishi as well as healthy ones, then perhaps other oyakata will take notice and follow suit. It won’t necessarily matter if the health and success are correlated, as most people don’t bother to think that critically. Healthy but unsuccessful and it gives everyone an ‘out’ – they can say, “See, the old methods are still the best. Why change? It hasn’t worked for Naruto.”

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15 hours ago, Morty said:

Yep, it occurred to me about ten minutes after I posted that, while I was throwing the ball for the dog at the park:-). So the question is then, will the life expectancy drop for these heavier weights now, or will modern medicine cancel it out. And arguably, living the "sumo life" for 20 years makes it hard to quit when you finish because it is all you know

I'd still think that the life expectancy of former sumo pros would lag behind the population.  The question to me is, is it 5 years, 10 years, or more?  All the pounding, excessive eating/resulting overweight, and whatever else come with professional sumo life can't be good for outliving a general population (80+ for Japanese male).  

Question for long timers ... 

Do you think injury situation has gotten worse over the years?  I'd think it would given the size of rikishi has gotten bigger over the years.

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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Do you think injury situation has gotten worse over the years?  I'd think it would given the size of rikishi has gotten bigger over the years.

It has gotten worse over especially the recent years, with more and more days traveling around for more jungyo and increased PR and extra activities that came with the public interest status of the NSK - instead of solid training.

With all that, the sumo way of simply getting over injuries by more training doesn't work anymore: doing just the basics all the time, for as much as the injury allows.

The old guard is not totally wrong when they say that the rikishi get injured because they don't train enough: they don't do enough of the important basics - but they don't have time for those old ways because they now live in the modern world - and to have a life of their own is not part of the sumo way either.

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When I started to follow sumo a year ago, one of the things that really struck me were the amount of injuries and / or physical problems of these guys.

As a general rule, sport at the highest level is unhealthy in almost all disciplines. Physical and psychic performances are pushed to a level at the body sooner or later can not stand anymore. Sumo is certainly not an exception.

Six basho in a year + extra activities between them. If you also have small / medium injuries, there is no time to recover and prepare again properly.
In the meantime you have to train and sumo workouts are not like playing cards.
Then there is the diet that has positive, but also negative sides.
Then there is the intrinsic mentality of this sport with all the due consequences. Kisenosato comes to my mind, for example.

As fa as I understand, my modest opinion is that these guys are overburdened and only very few superhumans resist and, even them, once they are in thier 30s start having problems. Imagine the others.
 

Congratulations to Mitakeumi. Really calm and safe for the whole tournament. Also congratulation to Yutakaiama and Asanoyama.
I'm happy to see Hokutofuji healthy again after what happened in the last tournament.

I do hope to see all the big shots in September.

Ciao to all!

Edited by Fede

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Why were they throwing zabutons when Mitakeumi beat Tochiozan?    I've seen it mostly when a yokozuna lose against a lesser ranked rikishi.   In Mita's case, they were throwing zabutons when Mita beat an M13.   Not many were thrown but it was rather unexpected.

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I think that might have had to do with it being celebratory. If I'm not mistaken there was a time when they would get thrown if a crowd favorite ended up winning.

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24 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Why were they throwing zabutons when Mitakeumi beat Tochiozan?    I've seen it mostly when a yokozuna lose against a lesser ranked rikishi.   In Mita's case, they were throwing zabutons when Mita beat an M13.   Not many were thrown but it was rather unexpected.

Because Nagoya fans are wild. They eat pieces of the dohyo after the final day is over.

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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Why were they throwing zabutons when Mitakeumi beat Tochiozan?    I've seen it mostly when a yokozuna lose against a lesser ranked rikishi.   In Mita's case, they were throwing zabutons when Mita beat an M13.   Not many were thrown but it was rather unexpected.

Because Mitakeumi had won his first yusho with that victory.  It was nothing to do with Tochiozan himself.  

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6 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Why were they throwing zabutons when Mitakeumi beat Tochiozan?    I've seen it mostly when a yokozuna lose against a lesser ranked rikishi.   In Mita's case, they were throwing zabutons when Mita beat an M13.   Not many were thrown but it was rather unexpected.

The odd zabuton was also thrown for defeats of ozeki this time, which I'd not seen before. It was commented on earlier in this thread. The Nagoya crowd seemed keen to find reasons to celebrate.

Regardless of what it started out as, I'm fairly certain now that zabuton throwing is a celebration of an underdog's victory, rather than expressing disapproval at a yokozuna allowing himself to be beaten.

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2 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Regardless of what it started out as, I'm fairly certain now that zabuton throwing is a celebration of an underdog's victory, rather than expressing disapproval at a yokozuna allowing himself to be beaten.

That’s what it started out as, but before this basho I never saw it as that in recent years and rather about disappointing yokozuna losses.

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17 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Because Nagoya fans are wild. They eat pieces of the dohyo after the final day is over.

I'd think zabutons are easier to digest.  Loved your Nagoya summary video.  You should do it after every basho.  :-)

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21 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Because Nagoya fans are wild. They eat pieces of the dohyo after the final day is over.

By then the dohyo is fairly well-seasoned and has been marinating in rikishi sweat for a good 2 weeks. All it really needs is a bit of dashi and it's tasty af.

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43 minutes ago, Kuroyama said:

By then the dohyo is fairly well-seasoned and has been marinating in rikishi sweat for a good 2 weeks. All it really needs is a bit of dashi and it's tasty af.

You LOVED Jackass, didn't you?

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