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Nagoya Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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YES! Jokoryu won! Akua and Iridori lost. 3 Juryo going down. Jokoryu is back in Juryo!!!!!! (Zabutonflying...)

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Interesting match between Mitoryu and Aminishiki. How do you play mind games and tricks on somebody who is clueless? Mitoryu won. 

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3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

I’m fairly sure that the best coaches advise the athletes under their tutelage to work on their weaknesses. I think it’s pretty much the norm across the sports world. Working only on strengths is what amateurs do. I’m not buying this claim that sumo is different. I often read about rikishi working on certain skills. Kisenosato has been trying post-injury to develop his areas of vulnerability and one reason Tochinoshin lost so many bouts in keiko before Nagoya was because he was evidently trying new things. Goeido hammered him, by doing what he can already do – hard and fast tachiai. Smart, determined athletes know not to rest on their laurels but to constantly look for areas to improve. 

Tochinoshin lost so many training bouts before Nagoya because he was injured, not because he was trying out new techniques. And he lost to Goueidou a lot because, as he himself and his Oyakata pointed out, he " just can't figure Goueidou out."  and Tochinoshin is one of those guys that always did well in training but could not reproduce it during the basho, till recently of course.  If you're not "buying the claim that sumo is different", well, I disagree with you. It's a pretty basic difference. As for looking for areas to improve, most of the greatest rikishi had their own style of sumo forever- "My kind of sumo" is not a cliche.  Most live and die by it. I don't remember any major rikishi specializing in oshi suddenly becoming a yotsu expert because he was looking for "areas to improve".

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NSK results are showing Takanosho with a win and Takanoiwa with a loss, so a playoff will presumably ensue after the end of the rest of Juryo.  Well, the Sandanme playoff will be then too I think, and I presume first.

Edited by Gurowake

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40 minutes ago, Rocks said:

YES! Jokoryu won! Akua and Iridori lost. 3 Juryo going down. Jokoryu is back in Juryo!!!!!! (Zabutonflying...)

Yeah, Kizenryu won, so he'll probably get to stay in Juryo unless they take 4-3 Ms5w Akua.  They might, I dunno.  We'll found out Wednesday if Kizenryu will finally get two straight Juryo basho.  As mentioned in the Promotion thread, it would be nice to see banzuke luck finally get him a reprieve since it was terrible luck that saw him leave Juryo the first time.

Edited by Gurowake
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NHK: Shimpan top Onomatsu declared - before today's result - that Mitakeumi will be on ozeki run next basho

though yesterday:

On 7/21/2018 at 17:00, Kintamayama said:

Mitakeumi Ozeki run? Mixed views.

Ounomatsu, head of the judging department: "I can't say anything till I see his bout on the final day."

Edited by Akinomaki

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1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK: Shimpan top Onomatsu declared that Mitakeumi will be on ozeki run next basho - regardless of today's result

Water is wet.

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3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Yeah, Kizenryu won, so he'll probably get to stay in Juryo unless they take 4-3 Ms5w Akua.  They might, I dunno.  We'll found out Wednesday if Kizenryu will finally get two straight Juryo basho.

I think he stays. I think they wanted Akua to win to bring him back. 

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10 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I think he stays. I think they wanted Akua to win to bring him back. 

It's unfortunate they couldn't find a schedule with Akua facing Kizenryu - Azumaryu already faced Churanoumi, so a straight swap wouldn't have worked.  With all the Kise-beya rikishi in Juryo, they really had to stretch the available opponents, especially for those two near the bottom of the division.  They got opposite results at least.

edit: It probably also didn't help things that one of the Kise-beya rikishi had another forbidden match, Hidenoumi and his brother Tobizaru.

Edited by Gurowake
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28 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Tochinoshin lost so many training bouts before Nagoya because he was injured, not because he was trying out new techniques. And he lost to Goueidou a lot because, as he himself and his Oyakata pointed out, he " just can't figure Goueidou out."  and Tochinoshin is one of those guys that always did well in training but could not reproduce it during the basho, till recently of course.  If you're not "buying the claim that sumo is different", well, I disagree with you. It's a pretty basic difference. As for looking for areas to improve, most of the greatest rikishi had their own style of sumo forever- "My kind of sumo" is not a cliche.  Most live and die by it. I don't remember any major rikishi specializing in oshi suddenly becoming a yotsu expert because he was looking for "areas to improve".

Disagree away! :)

It’s possible to have a style and yet have weaknesses within that style. For instance, you may be an oshi-specialist who struggles against left-handed yotsu specialists so you spend training working on defence against that sort of fighter. You’re not changing your own offense, you’re working on reducing your vulnerability. Or maybe you’re fine at defense but find you’re having trouble taking the fight to guys who are much shorter than you, say an Abi versus a Takakeisho. So you pick the shortest guy in your heya and have him slap and thrust at you from below so you can figure out how to handle that sort of fighter. This all comes under ‘working on your weaknesses’. Nobody said anything about completely altering your style of sumo.

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Takanoiwa wins the Yusho in a playoff. 13-2 He isn't just headed back to makuuchi. He'll probably be mid maegashira. Congrats to him! (Zabutonflying...)

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29 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Water is wet.

It has come to my attention that there is actually some disagreement on the Internet whether water actually is wet.  So I retract this and say: The Pope is from Argentina.

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Yoshikaze is on a winning streak! :)

Shohozan’s poor form this basho has sort of slipped under the radar with all the kyujos and breakout tournaments for other people. He’s injured surely? He couldn’t have asked for an easier schedule on his return to the yaku ranks, yet he’s ended 3-12 and lost to Yoshikaze.

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Superb bout between Yutakayama and Mitakeumi! One of the best of the basho for me. Great never-give-in defence from both but Yama especially. 

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40 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Superb bout between Yutakayama and Mitakeumi! One of the best of the basho for me. Great never-give-in defence from both but Yama especially. 

Agreed!   Mita seemed to have the upper hand a few times but Yutakayama persevered.   Amazing match.  I hope that loss does not come back to haunt Mita when adding up the wins for his Ozeki promotion after the next basho.  

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5 hours ago, Rocks said:

This is wonderful. It really is. But he has his win and should have withdrawn for the last day. Hopefully Shohozan just walks him off easily but it is dumb to go out there again.

Actually, the announcers indicated that he needed a win today in order to remain in Makuuchi, which he was able to pull off in true Yoshikaze fashion. Glad to see him stick around in the top division where he belongs.

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Yoshikaze had a fire under him today. It was so good to see. He does still look ill, but I’m glad to hear he is taking strength from his supporters. I hope he can recover from whatever injury he has. 

Mitakeumi’s bout with Yutakayama was far better than the ozeki clash. Yutakayama clearly wanted to make the point that he was also a force to be reckoned with. His determination last basho has translated into good victories this time. I think both he and Asanoyama will return strong in Aki, having been within touching distance (as far as the numbers go) of the winning yusho score. Hokutofuji also had another good day and has more than returned to form  

I concur with the other comments about this being a changing of guard basho. It has given us a glimpse of the future, which has an array of strong and diverse rikishi. I think it will be interesting to see it play out. 

Given this was a nokozuna basho, there are question marks for me over the current ozeki (Tochi excepted due to his kyujo). Takayasu has yet to yusho and Goeidou’s zensho feels like a century ago. They just don’t seem Yokozuna material in the long run, and the younger ones seem to have brighter long terms prospects to my mind. 

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6 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Given this was a nokozuna basho, there are question marks for me over the current ozeki (Tochi excepted due to his kyujo). Takayasu has yet to yusho and Goeidou’s zensho feels like a century ago. They just don’t seem Yokozuna material in the long run, and the younger ones seem to have brighter long terms prospects to my mind. 

I know Takayasu has had injuries* but this basho was his time to step up and take the yusho. I doubt the field will ever be as weak as it was this time. Missed opportunity indeed. To have seen Tochinoshin and Mitaekumi both take a championship before him, despite initially seeming to be the one making the leap ahead must rankle a bit. 

 

*Is any rikishi ever 100% though?

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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK: Shimpan top Onomatsu declared - before today's result - that Mitakeumi will be on ozeki run next basho

After the torikumi interviewed again, Onomatsu declared: "I can't say how many wins will be enough. Rather than the number of wins, the quality of his sumo against the yokozuna and more will be important." https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180722/k10011543981000.html

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3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

It has come to my attention that there is actually some disagreement on the Internet whether water actually is wet.  So I retract this and say: The Pope is from Argentina.

Preposterous! Everbody knows the Pope is from the Vatican!

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Nice to see ichinojo get his KK. after his fairly poor start and up and down basho he pounded endo. His strength his exceptional. He really is the epitome of the gentle giant. I know he has his weight issues as well as his injury pone back to deal with but when he uses his amazing strengh to thrust and make his opponent fly threw the sky it is a picture of beauty. 

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3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Shohozan’s poor form this basho has sort of slipped under the radar with all the kyujos and breakout tournaments for other people. He’s injured surely? He couldn’t have asked for an easier schedule on his return to the yaku ranks, yet he’s ended 3-12 and lost to Yoshikaze.

I dunno. He was fighting well, things just didn't go his way this basho IMHO. The guys with the more "chaotic" styles are often more at the mercy of lady luck than those with a more controlled offense.

Edited by Asashosakari

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I missed Ichinojo-Endo earlier. Just seen it now. Kind of embarrassing end for Endo there. He didn’t move Ichinojo an inch and then got casually pushed over. Not a very dignified way to finish your basho!

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