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Nagoya Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Regarding sansho for Nagoya, I predict S1w Mitakeumi (13-1) wins both the Gino-sho and Shukun-sho. The Kanto-sho is shared by M9w Yutakayama (11-3) and M13w Asanoyama (11-3).

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1 hour ago, Joaoiyama said:

That is actually pretty common in combat sports, Muhammad Ali let his sparring partners exploit his weakness so he could get better at them. It worked for him and looks like it's working for Mitakeumi.

Totally not the same. No such thing in sumo, training or otherwise. You're supposed to go all out always-going at it by any other standard just doesn't work in sumo and may cause your opponent injury. That's the Bible.. 

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Another thing about Mitakeumi is that he does famously feeble keiko ala Takamisakari. One of his Oyakatas was on the TV broadcast and said it was a wonder how he does so well in honbasho when he is really weak in training...

OTOH, he trains with Tochinoshin.  I thought I saw echos of Tochinoshin's new style in Mitakeumi's first week this basho: a lot of arm and shoulder swinging to turn and block.

 

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4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Yutakayama could win for a shukun-sho tomorrow - else nobody can get it. He and Asanoyama should get the kanto-sho.

and yes, I forgot him completely - Mitakeumi gino-sho and kanto-sho

Yutakayama shukun-sho makes no sense to me. The yusho is decided, so beating the yusho winner is of little (added) worth.

Mitakeumi SG, Yutakayama K, Asanoyama K would be my guess.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Congratulations to Mitakeumi. A well deserved yusho. 

Nice to see Yoshikaze finally break the duck. It’s also good to see the fans being so supportive of him. 

I realise Takayasu is injured but on the whole we should have seen a stronger performance from the two remaining ozeki during the tournament. 

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I guess it would be best to put these in this thread to avoid spoiling the results for anyone.  Just some quick clips of after Day14 events mostly of Mitakeumi, Mom Margarita-san, and supporters' reactions in Nagano.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Congratulations to Mitakeumi. A well deserved yusho. 

Nice to see Yoshikaze finally break the duck. It’s also good to see the fans being so supportive of him. 

I realise Takayasu is injured but on the whole we should have seen a stronger performance from the two remaining ozeki during the tournament. 

Mitakeumi: agree!

Yoshikaze: agree!!

Takayasu: I wonder.  Yokozuna can't compete while damaged because 1) it's beneath their dignity and 2) it costs the NSK money for kinboshi.  Ozeki, on the other hand, have less of 1) and none of 2).  Imagine if this basho had no Y/O at all after day 6?  Not good at all for sumo.  Takayasu was clearly hurt, and after the Kaisei and Ichinojo bouts he could have pulled out and did the sekiwakezeki (or whatever) next basho; but he stayed in there.  No matter what you think of the decision in the Mitakeumi/Takayasu bout, M's yusho is more legit because he had to face a couple of Ozeki's.

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8 hours ago, Uinseann said:

I don't want to start a flame war, really, but to me, Aoiyama is very pleasant to look at. So, dear gentleman, I disagree with you.

He makes me blush, that’s all.

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Totally not the same. No such thing in sumo, training or otherwise. You're supposed to go all out always-going at it by any other standard just doesn't work in sumo and may cause your opponent injury. That's the Bible.. 

Gotcha. That type of training is the exception, most fighters only want to improve what their good at. The great majority of fighters do go all out in training but there's something called overtraining that sports didn't take serious until recently. Over the years, the fighters that adapted to how much and how hard you should train got the better results. It's sumo we're talking anyway so it's not like any other sport(not saying that sumo is only a sport by any means).

What benefits the fighter more: only upgrading what you're good at or ugrading what you're bad at ?
The point is, if Mitakeumi is only working on his weakness, looking weak in training but is looking good on the basho, his training method works.

 

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3 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

Gotcha. That type of training is the exception, most fighters only want to improve what their good at. The great majority of fighters do go all out in training but there's something called overtraining that sports didn't take serious until recently. Over the years, the fighters that adapted to how much and how hard you should train got the better results. It's sumo we're talking anyway so it's not like any other sport(not saying that sumo is only a sport by any means).

What benefits the fighter more: only upgrading what you're good at or ugrading what you're bad at ?
The point is, if Mitakeumi is only working on his weakness, looking weak in training but is looking good on the basho, his training method works.

 

I’m fairly sure that the best coaches advise the athletes under their tutelage to work on their weaknesses. I think it’s pretty much the norm across the sports world. Working only on strengths is what amateurs do. I’m not buying this claim that sumo is different. I often read about rikishi working on certain skills. Kisenosato has been trying post-injury to develop his areas of vulnerability and one reason Tochinoshin lost so many bouts in keiko before Nagoya was because he was evidently trying new things. Goeido hammered him, by doing what he can already do – hard and fast tachiai. Smart, determined athletes know not to rest on their laurels but to constantly look for areas to improve. 

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Yoshikaze's shisho Oguruma oyakata gave us some insight as to Yoshikaze's condition since he was in the announcer's box for day 14. Yoshikaze does have an injury which he asked Oguruma not to disclose, and has kept telling Oguruma he will gambarize to the end. As Yoshikaze won, the NHK announcer made the comment that the crowd was cheering as if Yoshikaze had won the yusho. After the match he mentioned how touched he was by the crowds cheering for him no matter how bleak it looked for him, and he was also grateful to Oguruma and the okami san for their encouragement.

Edited by WAKATAKE
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5 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Yoshikaze's shisho Oguruma oyakata gave us some insight as to Yoshikaze's condition since he was in the announcer's box for day 14. Yoshikaze does have an injury which he asked Oguruma not to disclose, and has kept telling Oguruma he will gambarize to the end. As Yoshikaze won, the NHK announcer made the comment that the crowd was cheering as Yoshikaze had won the yusho. After the match he mentioned how touched he was by the crowds cheering for him no matter how bleak it looked for him, and he was also grateful to Oguruma and the okami san for their encouragement.

This is wonderful. It really is. But he has his win and should have withdrawn for the last day. Hopefully Shohozan just walks him off easily but it is dumb to go out there again.

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18 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Mitakeumi makes good on his potential.   He'd best to get his emotion in check and win another bout tomorrow.  That can make or break his promotion to Ozeki after the next basho.  

Don't be too harsh on Goedio or Takayasu.   They are sticking out until the end, injury or not, kachikosh or not.   I don't think Takayasu was 100% and Goeido has been his usual overachieving self.   He does not have the size like other Ozeki or Yokozuna but has one yusho under his belt and 4 year run on Ozekiship.

Takayasu is clearly carrying a couple of injuries and they have clearly affected his performance. Goeido has just been Goeido.

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19 hours ago, Chojin said:

Your comments I also truly believe. He has been exposed to a lot of head trauma. I really hope he has no future injuries and is able to retire and have a nice future. I am not doctor and am not implying anything other then a concern. 

Watch the day 14 bout in slow-mo - he hits with the head at the tachiai, then goes with it again in the subsequent contact. Then looks totally dazed at the end. Could be the flu as some others have said, but could also be shadows on the brain.

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

I’m fairly sure that the best coaches advise the athletes under their tutelage to work on their weaknesses. I think it’s pretty much the norm across the sports world. Working only on strengths is what amateurs do. I’m not buying this claim that sumo is different. I often read about rikishi working on certain skills. Kisenosato has been trying post-injury to develop his areas of vulnerability and one reason Tochinoshin lost so many bouts in keiko before Nagoya was because he was evidently trying new things. Goeido hammered him, by doing what he can already do – hard and fast tachiai. Smart, determined athletes know not to rest on their laurels but to constantly look for areas to improve. 

Agreed. That's the point i tried to make, Mitakeumi doing "bad" in training isn't a bad thing. Sumo is a sport like any other but no other sport is like sumo. Doing calculated training works, reckless training and going all out doesn't, don't confuse that with training hard.

I wonder why so many rikishi are injuried... 

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13-1: Mitakeumi

11-3: Asanoyama, Yutakayama

10-4: Hokotofuji

9-5: Onosho, Takakeisho

This is the current basho but it is also the future. Get used to seeing something like this at the top of the leaderboard over the next few years (hopefully Shodai can sort him self out and join these guys)

 

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Congratulations to my favorite rikishi Mitakeumi! Have always enjoyed his style of sumo, as well as his great sportsmanship, it seems that his peers all respect and like him a lot. Always offering to help a fallen rikishi and bracing those he's pushed out from falling off when he can, Mita is one for Japan to be very proud of. Hope he can stay focused in the face of all the emotion he is going through to get win #14. Every win counts on his next goal to get to Ozeki!

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Morty said:

13-1: Mitakeumi

11-3: Asanoyama, Yutakayama

10-4: Hokotofuji

9-5: Onosho, Takakeisho

This is the current basho but it is also the future. Get used to seeing something like this at the top of the leaderboard over the next few years (hopefully Shodai can sort him self out and join these guys)

 

That’s a nice way of looking at. A changing of the guard tournament. I doubt Mitakeumi will be as far out there on his own though. I don’t see as much of a chasm in skill level among this lot as there was between the Mongolian Yokozuna and the hiramaku over the past decade plus.

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4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

That’s a nice way of looking at. A changing of the guard tournament. I doubt Mitakeumi will be as far out there on his own though. I don’t see as much of a chasm in skill level among this lot as there was between the Mongolian Yokozuna and the hiramaku over the past decade plus.

There have been a few changing of the guard moments in the past couple of years, but this is the first time one of the new crop has taken the yusho. It feels like that potential is being realised. I know that the Yoks were kyujo but they aren't going to be around for much longer anyway

Edited by Morty

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7 minutes ago, Morty said:

There have been a few changing of the guard moments in the past couple of years, but this is the first time one of the new crop has taken the yusho. It feels like that potential is being realised. I know that the Yoks were kyujo but they aren't going to be around for much longer anyway

Yeah, it feels different somehow. I think it’s the fact that several have had either standout tournaments (both Yamas) or returned strongly from injury all at the same time, not just one here and there. 

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Sansho are up at http://sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/champions/

No surprises: Mitakeumi GS, Yutakayama & Asanoyama K

I wonder if I ever noticed before that Mitakeumi was born on Christmas.  I wanted to say that I haven't, but now I'm not sure sure.  It was noted in the thread here when he first got his mage, so probably.

Edited by Gurowake

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My goodness, the entire west side of Jonokuchi won on day 15. Yes, it's only 1/3 of the division, but how often does something like that happen  (Idunno...)

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39 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

My goodness, the entire west side of Jonokuchi won on day 15. Yes, it's only 1/3 of the division, but how often does something like that happen  (Idunno...)

Wild. I missed it and the results aren't up. Did Jokoryu win?

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