Banzuke for Nagoya 2018

It's always hilarious when there apparently are two factions that want to do widely disparate things, and they end up compromising on something that has little internal logic. I'm referring to Arawashi/Asanoyama/Tochiozan. In what way does it make any sense to put Tochiozan between those two except as a compromise between the people that want to put Tochiozan behind both and the people who want to put him ahead of both? I can definitely see people in both camps, but it's extremely odd to think that systematically Tochiozan should be between them.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Gurowake

Asashosakari · June 24, 2018

I need to suppress the urge to shout "Worst banzuke ever!" Daieisho doesn't even get the benefit of a spot in front of Takarafuji even though that would be perfectly in line with many other historical decisions, yet Yutakayama gets to stay ahead of Chiyomaru?! (Never mind that Chiyomaru gets away very leniently here himself.) And all that seemingly just to not put a load of KK rikishi one or two spots higher... Pretty much the anti-banzuke compared to my philosophy - all available banzuke luck dumped on a couple of guys instead of being spread around to everyone.

Rocks · June 24, 2018

Yeah, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Chiyomaru drops 3 spots with 5 wins and Hokutofuji drops 7 with 4? Plus Hokutofuji ends up behind Ishiura? Do they just hate him now? Maybe that is normal., I don't know.

WAKATAKE · June 24, 2018

Terunofuji now officially the first former ozeki and first makuuchi yusho winner to have fallen all the way to Makushita.

Gurowake · June 24, 2018

I knew I was likely to be wrong putting Chiyotairyu ahead of Yoshikaze, but I'm systematic to a fault and that's what my system said. But Endo ahead of Chiyotairyu? When I looked at it just now I was like "did I forget to add the extra leniency for Komusubi demotions?" but they went a stage beyond even what I was expecting. Apparently the whole "coming back from injury and losing all your matches" is viewed extremely favorably, so as to negate any of the bias against those that sat out part of the tournament, and he also got an overly generous helping of Komusubi demotion leniency.

But as I've said before, I'm fairly sure that they throw screwballs like that (and Yutakayama) around just to show us that they can do whatever they want and are accountable to no one, and that the very idea of trying to predict them is genuine folly.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Gurowake

Gurowake · June 24, 2018

25 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Yeah, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Chiyomaru drops 3 spots with 5 wins and Hokutofuji drops 7 with 4? Plus Hokutofuji ends up behind Ishiura? Do they just hate him now? Maybe that is normal., I don't know.

You always have to look at the greater context. You can't compare how tightly or loosely one area of the banzuke is packed versus another. Where Chiyomaru was there was a massive lack of rikishi to be put anywhere near there, which is part of the reason I assume Yutakayama was slotted in there.

Which then raises the question: how did Yutakayama and Chiyomaru end up ahead of Nishikigi but behind Myogiryu? It's sorta the same thing as I mentioned above with Tochiozan, except there's at least an additional slot between the two; I can imagine that some thought they were bringing them both way too far up the banzuke, whereas others wanted to make sure Chiyomaru and Yutakayama got demoted enough. Did they actually take into account that they severely under-demoted Nishikigi last basho?

sekitori · June 24, 2018

Ura is now at Sandanme 30. The good news is that he should do extremely well at such a low level. The bad news is that he has a long, long way to come back to his highest rank of M4 and with his acrobatic style of sumo, it's quite possible he could get injured again.

Edited June 24, 2018 by sekitori

Yubinhaad · June 24, 2018

Eleven shikona changes in total, including shin-Juryo Churanoumi which the Kyokai announced rather haphazardly along with his promotion. He has also changed the given name - Kizaki Shinji > Churanoumi Yoshihisa.

Two changes in Sadogatake-beya. Kotokumazoe is now Kotoozutsu, the second kanji there is rare but notable, being part of the 18th Yokozuna's shikona. Given name change as well - Kotokumazoe Ginjiro > Kotoozutsu Kunihiro. Elsewhere, it's taken a while but Kotokojima has also taken a proper shikona and a new given name too. Kotokojima Ken > Kotonoumi Kenta.

Three changes in recently established Futagoyama-beya. Hayashi has switched to using his (real) given name as his shikona, and has therefore taken a different given name for his shikona. Hayashi Maikeru > Maikeru Shuki. Meanwhile, Soma is now Kotakiyama, and finally Yabuoka is now Raiga - the second kanji there is from the shisho.

In Shikoroyama-beya, the older Nagaya brother gets his first proper shikona. Nagaya Kaito > Tetsujin Isao.

Takanohana-beya's Hara gets the traditional first kanji from the shisho, while the third kanji is part of his (real) given name. The middle kanji is also used in his new given name, with a different reading. Interesting to me, although I have no idea how common that kind of thing is. Hara Hiroki > Takamasaki Shosuke.

Miyagino-beya's Nakano is now Takemaru. Perhaps it will give the traditional change of luck as he seeks the first kachi-koshi of his short career. He has only ever been one win short, with five 3-4 records so far.

Asahiyama-beya's Hironaka is the first not to get an Asahi- shikona, instead he is honoured with the second kanji from the shisho. Hironaka Ryu > Hayatonishiki Yuki.

Finally, Kokonoe-beya's Kinoshita is now Chiyotaiyo as he joins the banzuke for the first time.

I thought it might be helpful to actually include the given name changes on the list.

J14w Kizaki Shinji > Churanoumi Yoshihisa (美ノ海義久)
Sd53w Hayashi Maikeru > Maikeru Shuki (舞蹴修樹)
Sd56w Kotokumazoe Ginjiro > Kotoozutsu Kunihiro (琴砲国太)
Sd89e Kotokojima Ken > Kotonoumi Kenta (琴ノ海絢太)
Jd29w Nagaya Kaito > Tetsujin Isao (錣迅功)
Jd87e Soma > Kotakiyama (小滝山)
Jd97e Hara Hiroki > Takamasaki Shosuke (貴正樹正輔)
Jd104e Yabuoka > Raiga (雷雅)
Jk8w Nakano > Takemaru (竹丸)
Jk19e Hironaka Ryu > Hayatonishiki Yuki (勇錦佑紀)
Jk29e Kinoshita > Chiyotaiyo (千代太陽)

RaeucherLax · June 25, 2018

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoBanzuke/index/

Makuuchi

Goeido O1 Takayasu
--- O2 Tochinoshin

Can anyone please explain to me why they put Tochinoshin up as O2 West?
The last one to be promoted (Takayasu) went to O2 East and that's what I would´ve expected for Tochinoshin now as well.

word20 · June 25, 2018

In Makushita there is some guys that are interesting to follow:

Enho Ms #2, who has been in Juryo before, Toyonoshima who is Ms #7,

and then we have the two brothers in Ms #4 and #10 Wakamotoharu and Wakatakamoto, who has their younger brother Waktakakage in Juryo #12 and how it will go for them

Kawabata · June 25, 2018

45 minutes ago, RaeucherLax said:

Can anyone please explain to me why they put Tochinoshin up as O2 West?
The last one to be promoted (Takayasu) went to O2 East and that's what I would´ve expected for Tochinoshin now as well.

Its to balance the two sides of the top of the banzuke as in the Yokozuna ranks Kisenosato is at Y2e.

At least thats as far as I'm aware :) If I'm wrong hopefully someone with more knowledge can correct me here

Asashosakari · June 25, 2018

Wow, my juryo guess actually has everybody at the correct rank, just a few same-rank East/West flips (J1, J4, J7, J14). 48 out of 56 points by GTB scoring. That's definitely not the usual outcome. Why can't they apply that much sense to the makuuchi division? ;-)

No major surprises in upper makushita either. They were quite lenient with Asabenkei (J12w 3-11-1, down 5.5 ranks) and Akua (Ms3w 3-4, down 2 ranks) - Akua is the first guy in nearly a decade to go 3-4 at Ms3 and still stay in the top 5 ranks. Terunofuji at Ms6e, somewhat less generous than Asabenkei's demotion, which maaaybe supports my speculation that they don't expect him to show up for this basho anyway and didn't want him blocking a spot in the promotion zone. Looking further down in makushita - rather generous treatment of 4-3's and 3-4's this time, to the detriment of the 5-2's (who don't gain much ground on the 4-3's) and the 2-5's (who drop very harshly compared to the 3-4's).

Edited June 25, 2018 by Asashosakari

Asashosakari · June 25, 2018

10 hours ago, jalil_the_swan said:

Kise-beya though... 7 sekitori, and none of them in Makuuchi. Is this the record for most sekitori from the same heya?

Definitely not a record for sekitori - Oitekaze-beya actually also has 7 right now, and Kise-beya itself already had 7 back in 2015. If I'm not mistaken, the most recent case of 8+ was Musashigawa-beya 15 years ago, and of course Futagoyama even used to have 10+ a few years before that. (To say nothing of Dewanoumi's 25+ in the old days.)

7 rikishi in juryo alone is very unusual though, and appears to tie the record for "modern" juryo (since 1967)...done before once each by Kasugano and Sakaigawa (I had completely forgotten about this one). The only other stables to even get to 6 juryo rikishi (all briefly) are Dewanoumi, Futagoyama and Tatsunami.

Morty · June 25, 2018

Years after dropping from sekitori Sagatsukasa has climbed to Ms7 opposite Toyonoshima and has a chance to get back. I doubt it will happen but I have my fingers crossed. Has been a favourite of mine ever since he did the most perfect ipponzeoi to win a match

RaeucherLax · June 25, 2018

1 hour ago, Kawabata said:

Its to balance the two sides of the top of the banzuke as in the Yokozuna ranks Kisenosato is at Y2e.

At least thats as far as I'm aware :) If I'm wrong hopefully someone with more knowledge can correct me here

Sounds plausible to me that the Kyokai does something useless like that just for banzuke symmetry (Sigh...) if only I would´ve known that before I submitted my GTB entry :-S

Pandaazuma · June 25, 2018

2 hours ago, Morty said:

Years after dropping from sekitori Sagatsukasa has climbed to Ms7 opposite Toyonoshima and has a chance to get back. I doubt it will happen but I have my fingers crossed. Has been a favourite of mine ever since he did the most perfect ipponzeoi to win a match

I was in the stadium when he did that! I was like...WTF???

Washuyama · June 25, 2018

3 hours ago, RaeucherLax said:

Can anyone please explain to me why they put Tochinoshin up as O2 West?
The last one to be promoted (Takayasu) went to O2 East and that's what I would´ve expected for Tochinoshin now as well.

Takayasu was on the east side because there were four Yokozuna at that time (Harumafuji was still active). With three at Yok and three at Ozeki, The 3rd Yok gets the east side and the 3rd Ozeki gets the west side.

Sakura · June 25, 2018

With the 7-Kise beya guys, assuming no divisional crossovers for them, they would end up facing all bar 6 of the non-Kise Juryo-rikishi.

EDIT: Which could make for some lopsided records for the aite later on in the tournament. Maybe.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Sakura

Philioyamfugi · June 25, 2018

Does seem kinda generous near the top with Kotoshugiku from M4 to M1. even my boy Kagayaki up to M4 from M8. But these things have a way of working it all out. Getting ready for sumo !

Shinrei · June 25, 2018

10 hours ago, RaeucherLax said:

Sounds plausible to me that the Kyokai does something useless like that just for banzuke symmetry if only I would´ve known that before I submitted my GTB entry

Well, you weren't alone...

Banzuke for Nagoya 2018

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