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Basho Talk Natsu 2018 (SPOILERS)

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1 hour ago, dazunoyama said:

I expect Hak to fight strong and hard to prove there is no YBSC or MBSC. That said, Hak is not looking great, I predict Kak to get the win and yusho tomorrow by keeping Hak off his mawashi.

Let's see, Hakuho is out of the Yusho,  has not fully recovered yet and is grieving his father. I expect him to have a nice big lunch with plenty of beer, maybe a foot massage and lose to Kakuryu gracefully and with little effort. The only way Hakuho does anything hard tomorrow is if Kakuryu tries to throw him and pisses him off. Or makes such a poor effort Hakuho has no choice but to win. I don't expect either from Kakuryu.

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2 hours ago, dazunoyama said:

I hope Tochinoshin gets a talking to from his Stablemaster - hitting the dohyo in frustration after his loss to Kakuryu was bad form, and definitely not Ozeki-type behaviour. 

 

We’ve seen lots of evidence over the years that pointed to an Ozeki Back Scratchers Club (for KK purposes). Now Hakuho is in the rare position to help or deny his fellow Yokozuna and Mongolian to get the yusho. I expect Hak to fight strong and hard to prove there is no YBSC or MBSC. That said, Hak is not looking great, I predict Kak to get the win and yusho tomorrow by keeping Hak off his mawashi.

Personally I’d like to see a little more personality come out from guys after bouts. Not football-style celebrations, but a smile or a frown for a second or two doesn’t hurt. Besides, all Tochinoshin did was show his disappointment in himself. He’s a competitor who wants to win. Very Ozeki-like mentality in my opinion.

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I would be surprised if Kak doesn't beat Hakuho tonight, though I am hoping for the basho to end in style with a playoff.

And I actually just caught up on the basho and am thrilled to see Tochinoshin with record that should make promotion undeniable. I have always been a fan, but I thought a somewhat limited style and injuries had him maxed out as one of the best of the 'masses';  so even if he becomes an 8-7/7-8/8-7 ozeki I will look at him as an inspirational figure. Same goes for Kyokutaisei, over 10 years to make the top division, and now looking at starting his makuuchi career with a special prize.

Keep at it and things can turn out better than expected! Not just in sumo.

Edited by Katooshu
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Hakuho is not going to be motivated in the same way that he could be if he had odds to win the tournament, but as a yokozuna he is at least motivated to demonstrate dominance (not weakness) in relation to the rival yokozuna (the only other yokozuna whose performance shows some menace to his dominance in the top division).

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With all the focus understandably on Tochinoshin this basho, Kakuryu’s performance has sort of slipped under the radar. I think it’s worth noting that he’s on the verge of securing his first ever back-to-back yusho and the first time to win two tournaments in a calendar year. I wonder if this is the year he finally silences his doubters (of which I have always been one, I admit) and prove he’s a real Yokozuna. He surpassed Tochinoshin yesterday to move into first place on the ‘most wins in 2018’ list to date. 

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Can't we just give Kak the props he deserves rather than suggesting he cheated with a loose mawashi? He got a morozashi for gods sake - once he got that it was all over and he beat Tochinoshin fair and square. Kak pulls a lot but his record makes it clear he is a legitimate Yokozuna capable of beating anyone on his day. 

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4 hours ago, Rocks said:

Exactly. That was put out there to make Kakuryu think he wouldn't go hard at the tachiai and maybe not use belt sumo. I didn't believe it for a second. I don't know if Kakuryu did either but he wore his wawashi loose anyway if that tells you anything. 

Had it been reported in the Japanese rumour mill there might be some merit to this, but it was only in Georgia, which suggests it probably didn’t make it to Kakuryu’s ears. Kakuryu will, however, have seen the taping with his own eyes in the shitaku-beya before their bout. Nonetheless any savvy rikishi won’t take any chances no matter how battered their opponent looks, so of course he would have tied the mawashi loosely. But are you suggesting that the taping wasn’t necessary or somehow isn’t indicative of some sort of pain or discomfort? Garbage rumours of fractures are one thing but why would Tochinoshin himself suddenly wear it on day 14 against Kakuryu if it wasn’t needed, having landed on his wrist in an awkward way the previous day?  He wanted to give a false impression of his fitness to Kakuryu and the world? I’m just confused about how you reconcile this aspect. 

Edited by Yatagarasu
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1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

Had it been reported in the Japanese rumour there might be some merit to this, but it was only in Georgia, which suggests it probably didn’t make it to Kakuryu’s ears. Kakuryu will, however, have seen the taping with his own eyes in the shitaku-beya before their bout. Nonetheless any savvy rikishi won’t take any chances no matter how battered their opponent looks, so of course he would have tied the mawashi loosely. But are you suggesting that the taping wasn’t necessary or somehow isn’t indicative of some sort of pain or discomfort? Garbage rumours of fractures are one thing but why would Tochinoshin himself suddenly wear it on day 14 against Kakuryu if it wasn’t needed, having landed on his wrist in an awkward way the previous day?  He wanted to give a false impression of his fitness to Kakuryu and the world? I’m just confused about how you reconcile this aspect. 

I don't think he needed it and for all we know it may have been reported around in Japan.  How do I reconcile it? He was gaming Kakuryu. Yes I think these guys game each other. So, no it wasn't necessary. I think that if it were needed Tochinoshin would have wrapped both wrists to give the impression he was just going for some extra support for a big match.  I think Tochinoshin is savvy enough to not telegraph a real injury he think could impact the result to his opponent. His very firm grip with his right hand on the mawashi and his pounding that wrist into to dohyo afterward without so much as a wince tells me there was never anything much wrong with it. 

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I’m not sure why everyone seems to be saying that Hakuhō won’t try to win on senshūraku. Have you people forgotten every time you’ve said that about pointless Harumafuji–Hakuhō bouts in the past and they always ended up being the highlight of the basho? These guys want to show they’re the top dog, it doesn’t matter if they’re out of the race, they still want to win.

If Hakuhō didn’t lose to Ichinojō yesterday I would’ve given the win to Hakuhō for sure against Kakuryū but now I’m not sure. I’m still thinking he’ll win though.

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Tochinoshin gino-sho and if he wins today also the shukun-kanto-sho. Kyokutaisei if he wins and gets 10 a kanto-sho as new makuuchi. Chiyonokuni  kanto-sho. I didn't hear exactly which one Shohozan would get if he wins and gets kachi-koshi, has to be the shukun-sho.

Edit: BS is a mess today

Edited by Akinomaki
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Shohiozan - Shukun-sho (if he wins)

Chiyonokuni - Kanto-sho

Kyokutaisei - Kanto-sho (if he wins)

Tochinoshin - Gino-sho and, if he wins, also Kanto-sho

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Kind of surprised there was not one for Abi if he gets his KK considering he got a Kinboshi in his first Yokozuna match along with beating a Ozeki and a Komusubi. 

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3 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Kind of surprised there was not one for Abi if he gets his KK considering he got a Kinboshi in his first Yokozuna match along with beating a Ozeki and a Komusubi. 

Otowayama-oyakata on Abema yesterday also thought he'd get one with kk https://abematimes.com/posts/4267713

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1 minute ago, Rocks said:

Kind of surprised there was not one for Abi if he gets his KK considering he got a Kinboshi in his first Yokozuna match along with beating a Ozeki and a Komusubi. 

The Shukun-Sho has priority to go to someone who beat the tournament leader/presumed winner, so that's Shohozan.  I don't think they wanted to give Abi a chance at the Shukun-sho in the case that Shohozan loses.

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8 hours ago, Benihana said:

And twitch is used to much larger audiences. So a channel with 400-600 users is a piece of cake for their servers. Never had any problems with your channel using my PC or my android tablet. Great work!

Well that is strange then. Depending on my location each day, I watch the NHK-G broadcast, Abema, and twitch. I always have both streams on, and sometimes if at home the TV too. The twitch stream has occasional buffering whether there are 150 viewers or 450, though there are days when it works fine. Is no one else having these issues? When the Vaughn TV stream was up, I generally experienced the same buffering and freezing other users reported. 

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28 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

Well that is strange then. Depending on my location each day, I watch the NHK-G broadcast, Abema, and twitch. I always have both streams on, and sometimes if at home the TV too. The twitch stream has occasional buffering whether there are 150 viewers or 450, though there are days when it works fine. Is no one else having these issues? When the Vaughn TV stream was up, I generally experienced the same buffering and freezing other users reported. 

I can speak for myself, but Vaughn used to freeze a lot for me. Zero buffers/freezes with Twitch, and that's for all days..

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3 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

Well that is strange then. Depending on my location each day, I watch the NHK-G broadcast, Abema, and twitch. I always have both streams on, and sometimes if at home the TV too. The twitch stream has occasional buffering whether there are 150 viewers or 450, though there are days when it works fine. Is no one else having these issues? When the Vaughn TV stream was up, I generally experienced the same buffering and freezing other users reported. 

The Twitch is perfect for me (on the days that I'm actually awake to watch). I gave up on the Vaughn etc sites when I first tried them because they buffered like mad.

I think Kakuryu has a good chance to add to his Yusho total in more than just this basho. He seems healthy and he's a Yokozuna after all. I still expect Hakuho to win a couple of yusho per year for a couple of years, but it seems like he'll be absent for more than one per year. Goeido is declining and Takayasu is recovering from injury (again). Tochinoshin has been his main competitor since the start of this year. Of course I expect Hakuho to do better, but I see the opportunity for many more.

Also, it's sad for Kisenosato that he got injured, because he also could have been in on the action.

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9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I can speak for myself, but Vaughn used to freeze a lot for me. Zero buffers/freezes with Twitch, and that's for all days..

Hmm. When it does buffer, it's the last 30 minutes of the broadcast, which was why I suspected server overload. Perhaps it just is a proximity issue.

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The loose mawashi is a non-issue. Not a word about it anywhere except on fan forums. Tochinoshin lost. Big deal. Nobody is complaining except maybe his fans. And the injury is real- he hurt his hand, it was bandaged. Some of you are reading waaaay too much into this, calling this "gaming" or whatever. This is sumo. You wins some, you lose some, you carry on. But every time a foreign rikishi is involved and loses a key bout, either the Kyokai is biased or he was cheated. Come on..

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Some time since the initial announcement of the Sansho, the "if he wins" was changed to "conditionally" at http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/champions/.  This suggests to me that Tochinoshin's Kanto-sho is conditional on him winning the yusho.  I don't know why else they would decide to have changed how it appeared since it first went up.  I recall that when Aoiyama's sansho was conditional on him winning the yusho, such condition wasn't reflected at all on that webpage as being different from the normal "if he wins".

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As to the potential for "draws due to injury", the Kyokai website's tournament records (http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/hoshitori/1/1/) match results legend indicates it as a possible result for a match.  Would they have coded it as a possibility on the website if it was not possible?

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28 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The loose mawashi is a non-issue. Not a word about it anywhere except on fan forums. Tochinoshin lost. Big deal. Nobody is complaining except maybe his fans. And the injury is real- he hurt his hand, it was bandaged. Some of you are reading waaaay too much into this, calling this "gaming" or whatever. This is sumo. You wins some, you lose some, you carry on. But every time a foreign rikishi is involved and loses a key bout, either the Kyokai is biased or he was cheated. Come on..

The winner was also a foreign rikishi. Perhaps you’re reading too much into why people are complaining? I think they’re just Tochinoshin fans and not people implying some anti-gaijin conspiracy.

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4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The winner was also a foreign rikishi. Perhaps you’re reading too much into why people are complaining? I think they’re just Tochinoshin fans and not people implying some anti-gaijin conspiracy.

The anti-gaijin thing was a general quote on what happens generally regarding foreign rikishi, from Konishiki to Mongolian conspiracies and onwards. The Tochinoshin-specific stuff is the whining about the mawashi which is total nonsense and the hand injury thing which was given some "interesting" explanations.

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22 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Some time since the initial announcement of the Sansho, the "if he wins" was changed to "conditionally" at http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/champions/.  This suggests to me that Tochinoshin's Kanto-sho is conditional on him winning the yusho.  I don't know why else they would decide to have changed how it appeared since it first went up.  I recall that when Aoiyama's sansho was conditional on him winning the yusho, such condition wasn't reflected at all on that webpage as being different from the normal "if he wins".

It's back to old times with the conditions: Shohozan gets the shukun-sho only if he wins AND Kakuryu gets the yusho (since otherwise he wouldn't have won against the yusho winner and be just as Abi). The condition for Tochinoshin is only that he wins his bout. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180527/k10011454911000.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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5 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The anti-gaijin thing was a general quote on what happens generally regarding foreign rikishi, from Konishiki to Mongolian conspiracies and onwards. The Tochinoshin-specific stuff is the whining about the mawashi which is total nonsense and the hand injury thing which was given some "interesting" explanations.

Fair enough. We’ll see if there is a Mongolian conspiracy later today though. Haha.

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