Basho Talk Natsu 2018 (SPOILERS)

[jalil_the_swan 25]

In a departure from the yusho topic...

Sazanami (Sd43w) has beaten Toryu (Sd48w) by gasshohineri today, first appearance of this extremely rare kimarite in almost 10 years.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

Looks like Wachichiro Jo14  4-2 and Toyonoshima ms14 also 4-2 going into last match tomorrow... Tough business this sumo but glad for the KK. Now Tochinoshin Kakayuu is the match ... Great drama !  

[Michishige 66]

Am I the only person who isn’t terribly bothered by Tochinoshin’s loss to Shodai? American Football fans would call it a “letdown loss” as a reference to the letdown from a particularly strong win the previous game. He just achieved a personal milestone in beating Hakuho...it’s natural for their to be some “letdown.” The tachiai was clearly off, but he recovered reasonably. I thought he overcommitted to moving forward after Shodai created distance (leading to the fall), but Shodai also made a very smart move on the bales to avoid touching out before Tochinoshin. 

The YouTube comments make it seem like Tochinoshin is suddenly Aminishiki. Let’s not become overwrought!

[Rocks 1,807]

Just now, Michishige said:

Am I the only person who isn’t terribly bothered by Tochinoshin’s loss to Shodai? American Football fans would call it a “letdown loss” as a reference to the letdown from a particularly strong win the previous game. He just achieved a personal milestone in beating Hakuho...it’s natural for their to be some “letdown.” The tachiai was clearly off, but he recovered reasonably. I thought he overcommitted to moving forward after Shodai created distance (leading to the fall), but Shodai also made a very smart move on the bales to avoid touching out before Tochinoshin. 

The YouTube comments make it seem like Tochinoshin is suddenly Aminishiki. Let’s not become overwrought!

It was a dumb loss by Tochinoshin but those happen. Bad timing for him. He was half way between strategies the whole match.  But I expected him to beat Kakuryu before the Shodai match and I still do. We will see tonight. If Tochinoshin comes out flat then he must be satisfied with the Ozeki promotion and has lost his drive. Otherwise the only way Kakuryu wins is if he manages to pull Tochinoshin down.  IMO.

[Yatagarasu 352]

9 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Hoshoryu Jonidan yusho.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201805250000470.html

Shuji Jonokuchi yusho.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201805250000418.html

I was torn on the Hoshoryu match.  I love that kid, but my Kise beya loyalties really felt the strain.  Kise seems to have been well-represented this basho in terms of yusho contenders in the lower divisions.  Thankfully Kizenryu got his KK too.    

I was really impressed by Ikioi's effort today.  I thought he'd be despatched a lot more quickly and, for a brief second, I thought maybe he could do it.  Worried about how he fell though.  While I'm glad that Hakuhou's matches are no longer the pushover they used to be, Hakuhou actually looks sick.  I think his recent wobbly form is encouraging the challengers to be bolder.  One thing that struck me is how odd it is to see him offering chikara mizu to someone else.  I'm so accustomed to seeing him in the musubi no ichiban.  

Shodai was very clever in just playing defensively and keeping Tochinoshin off the mawashi.  He knew he'd have been outgunned immediately if Tochinoshin had managed to get a firm hand on him.

[ALAKTORN 346]

My prediction: Kakuryū beats Tochinoshin, Hakuhō beats Kakuryū, tomoesen!

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Steroid patches.

Do you have a real answer? They’re clearly post-treatment for his right shoulder injury but what was the treatment? Looks like they could be covering injection spots, what kind of injections would those be? I’ve read people say steroids are used for treating injuries so maybe you’re not even wrong.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

12 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

My prediction: Kakuryū beats Tochinoshin, Hakuhō beats Kakuryū, tomoesen!

I have a similar feeling about how it will play out and I think Hakuho’s experience will tell when we get there. I’m not sure Tochinoshin will have the nerve to beat Yokozuna back to back in playoff conditions and Kakuryu is just Kakuryu – good but not the Goat.

Until today I’d have said Tochinoshin would beat Kakuryu tomorrow, but his confidence may have taken a knock and also Kakuryu fights a similar style to that which Shodai employed today. He won’t want to get sucked into a belt battle. Hakuho should beat a pretty underwhelming Ichinojo, which will leave us with Hakuho and Tochinoshin on 12-2 and Kakuryu on 13-1 going into senshuraku. 

[kassidilla 8]

2 hours ago, Michishige said:

Am I the only person who isn’t terribly bothered by Tochinoshin’s loss to Shodai? American Football fans would call it a “letdown loss” as a reference to the letdown from a particularly strong win the previous game. He just achieved a personal milestone in beating Hakuho...it’s natural for their to be some “letdown.” 

Exactly what I was thinking, too. Completely normal to have this happen after such an emotional and tough battle. If this match had happened before the Hakuho match, it would have been no problem for Tochinoshin. Hopefully he can come back tomorrow (although a 3 way playoff would be a lot of fun).

[Benevolance 2,484]

2 hours ago, Michishige said:

Am I the only person who isn’t terribly bothered by Tochinoshin’s loss to Shodai? American Football fans would call it a “letdown loss” as a reference to the letdown from a particularly strong win the previous game

For the past... what, decade or so?...if you wanted to win a tournament in which Hakuho was present, 15-0 was the only guaranteed victory, or 14-1 with lucky help from other people. This is basically what kept Kisenosato from becoming a yokozuna for so long, because even if he managed to beat Hak, he'd drop the odd 'easy' match along the way. The bar has slipped somewhat, but Tochi dropping the match against a rikishi he should honestly have beat may cost him the yusho at this point. Factor in that Tochi has historically had poor banzuke luck...if he's looking secure the rope eventually, he can't be losing crucial matches like this to rank and filers, and looking bewildered in the process. 

[Jabbamaru 166]

Showdai! "I should be the next next ozeki, gaijin!"

Ozumo is cool or what?

[Fukurou 534]

Not sure if anyone's noticed this, but I noticed today that Ms3e KIZENRYU had his 7th match (4-3) on day 12. I guess he's the candidate for an 8th match if needed.    Sumo Reference Link , NSK Tournament Record Link

Edited May 25, 2018 by Fukurou

[Asashosakari 19,138]

The yusho scenario I'm rooting for isn't the tomoe-sen, I think. If I could have my way I'd actually prefer Tochinoshin and Hakuho to win tomorrow and Tochinoshin to lose on Day 15, which would turn the yokozuna clash into a pre-playoff of sorts.

[Gurowake 4,032]

5 hours ago, Fukurou said:

Not sure if anyone's noticed this, but I noticed today that Ms3e KIZENRYU had his 7th match (4-3) on day 12. I guess he's the candidate for an 8th match if needed.    Sumo Reference Link , NSK Tournament Record Link

They always send someone up "early" when they need to fill in the sekitori schedule, just in case another sekitori withdraws (or comes back) and a top Makushitan suddenly doesn't have an opponent that was planned for.  Or, OK, they send *another* Makushitan up early at the same time - which is why they just do that in the first place.  There's nothing unusual in someone near the top of Makushita having their last match on Day 12; you'll also see sometimes someone 4-0 on Day 6, the earliest possible KK.  It's unlikely that they'll choose someone already KK for an 8th match; that can lead to weirdness with regard to who they should promote.  They also don't want to give someone a chance at a 4th win, so they tend to pick someone with at most 2 wins.   It's usually exactly 2 wins, but that's normally because the top rikishi in Makushita almost always fight someone lower in rank, so they have a tendency to win slightly more often, and 0 and 1 win tournaments while still being active are already rather rare before taking that into account.  So I don't know if they'll pick Amakaze or Tochihiryu if they need someone.  They'd also presumably be facing Asabenkei if such a match is needed (edit: or not, since he's withdrawing...)

Edited May 26, 2018 by Gurowake

[wys 55]

9 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

My prediction: Kakuryū beats Tochinoshin, Hakuhō beats Kakuryū, tomoesen!

I am rooting for Tochinoshin but I also think Kakuryu will beat Tochinoshin on Day 14. Kakuryu has a 9-bout winning streak going into day 14 whereas Tochinoshin just lost the day before. I can't help but think this must factor into each person's confidence level going into their match-up.

And I am so happy my man Takakeisho, who has the second longest winning streak at 6 bouts going into day 14,  got his kachi-koshi yesterday. His bouts are always entertaining and I'm looking forward to his match-up with Myogiryu today.

Conversely, I am kind of miffed that Asanoyama has been so consistently inconsistent. Based on my impression, it seems that he starts bashos relatively strong then just fades away. And in this basho, he lost to both Aminishiki and Takekaze, which is inexcusable. Asanoyama should have at least 9 wins by now. What's up with this guy?

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by wys

[Morty 1,486]

21 minutes ago, wys said:

Conversely, I am kind of miffed that Asanoyama has been so consistently inconsistent. Based on my impression, it seems that he starts bashos relatively strong then just fades away. And in this basho, he lost to both Aminishiki and Takekaze, which is inexcusable. Asanoyama should have at least 9 wins by now. What's up with this guy?

 

He has has a couple of strong basho starts but it certainly isn't the norm based on his 14 basho career (see below). He is just as likely to have a bad start and then recover. I think the answer is that he is a young man who hasn't been in Makuuchi for very long and he is still finding his feet. His entire career is only 14 basho long and he has suddenly found himself competing in the top rank against people who are as good as he is. He has never been ranked above M11 and so it is entirely reasonable that he would lose to extremely clever veterans like Aminishki and Takekaze who tend to win these days by outsmarting younger, stronger, and faster, but still naive, up and comers. Aminishki and Takekaze are old sure, but both have been Sanyaku, with Aminishki in particular spending significant time in the joi (arguably if injury hadn't ruined his knees he would have made Ozeki). These guys once were really good - now they rely on their smarts and that often works against the inexperienced.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12291

[Benihana 1,918]

15 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

My prediction: Kakuryū beats Tochinoshin, Hakuhō beats Kakuryū, tomoesen!

Do you have a real answer? They’re clearly post-treatment for his right shoulder injury but what was the treatment? Looks like they could be covering injection spots, what kind of injections would those be? I’ve read people say steroids are used for treating injuries so maybe you’re not even wrong.

Maybe endoscopic surgery, like it is done on knees. Would explain the "injection spots". I've never seen anyone cover needle wounds more than a few hours, so scrap that idea.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Acupuncture and moxibustion treatment for the shoulder perhaps.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Good to see Kotoshōgiku get his first kachikoshi since Aki last year and only his third since his demotion from Ozeki.

[Jyuunomori 226]

Kakuryuu wears the loosest mawashi ever witnessed in Sumo history. How honourable. /s

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Well, this is interesting. Hakuho has to do Tochinoshin a favour tomorrow, assuming Tochinoshin himself gets the win, to force a playoff. Of the three in the race I have to say I didn’t think it would be Kakuryu in the commanding position going into the final day.

[Yatagarasu 352]

I was on a live stream this morning and in the chat, frequented by many many Georgians, it was said that some Georgian sports commentators had said that Tochinoshin had broken his right wrist after his landing in yesterday's bout against Shodai.  If I find a reliable source for this I will post it, but I won't put this any higher than rumour for now.  That said, Tochinoshin had a lot of taping on his right wrist today that he didn't have yesterday which suggests that at the very least he may have been in some sort of pain.  Perhaps a sprain?  If he has injured himself, he could probably survive Ikioi, but I wouldn't bet on him winning a playoff.   

 

Edit:  This was the source mentioned in the chat.  Apparently these guys either talked about it during their coverage or wrote it in their comments but I can't verify as I don't speak Georgian:  https://www.facebook.com/adjarasport/videos/1915322911832790/

According to the Googletron, in this article from the same outlet he suffered a 'serious injury' to the right hand yesterday:  http://sport.adjara.com/items/2105140

 

Second edit: nothing in the Japanese press since and no developments concerning the source and whether or not it’s reliable. I’m binning this as mere puffery in the Georgian press, though it seems to have caught fire with the YouTube commenters - I’ve read variations that claim he broke his wrist to having broken his arm in two places! :roll eyes: 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Yatagarasu

[Eikokurai 3,437]

11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

The yusho scenario I'm rooting for isn't the tomoe-sen, I think. If I could have my way I'd actually prefer Tochinoshin and Hakuho to win tomorrow and Tochinoshin to lose on Day 15, which would turn the yokozuna clash into a pre-playoff of sorts.

It looks like you got the opposite of your wish! 

[Dapeng 233]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Well, this is interesting. Hakuho has to do Tochinoshin a favour tomorrow, assuming Tochinoshin himself gets the win, to force a playoff. Of the three in the race I have to say I didn’t think it would be Kakuryu in the commanding position going into the final day.

Do you think Hakuho still has any motivation to beat Kakuryu tomorrow? The yusho is already in Kakuryu 's pocket. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Do you think Hakuho still has any motivation to beat Kakuryu tomorrow? The yusho is already in Kakuryu 's pocket. 

I don’t think you become the greatest of all time if you don’t have the desire to win every time you step on the dohyo. Hakuho will always want to win. He won’t risk anything to do so, but he’s not going to lie down and let Kakuryu tickle him.

[mbovo 244]

A pretty weird thing happened on my channel today. Well over 450 viewers during Tochi vs Kak and ONLY around 400 for Hak vs Ichi. I mean sure, I understand Tochi's very popular and all but still. Who switches off a stream before the last - Yokozuna - bout of the day? I suspect a bunch of Georgians who know next to nothing and give zero f*ck about Sumo and are only interested in their national hero. Funny and sad at the same time.

Edited May 26, 2018 by mbovo