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Basho Talk Natsu 2018 (SPOILERS)

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Toyonoshima picked up a win at MS14. Takekaze looked pretty good... Entertaining match with Takekeisho and Hokutofuji. 

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Tochinoshin looking very strong today. How many wins would he need to be considered for Ozeki promotion?

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1 minute ago, Bobsen020 said:

Tochinoshin looking very strong today. How many wins would he need to be considered for Ozeki promotion?

I keep hearing ten as the magic number but I am far from an expert so take that with a grain of salt. I defer to the knowledgeable members

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58 minutes ago, Bobsen020 said:

Tochinoshin looking very strong today. How many wins would he need to be considered for Ozeki promotion?

He has 14 - 1 Y followed by 10-5 with a Shukun-sho. 10 this time would put him on 34 across three basho which would be hard to argue against really. But what do I know?

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32 minutes ago, Morty said:

He has 14 - 1 Y followed by 10-5 with a Shukun-sho. 10 this time would put him on 34 across three basho which would be hard to argue against really. But what do I know?

I think maybe the Yusho might be a complication (can I weasel word that any more?). Yes, he won the yusho and 2 sansho, but he was also at M3w, and it's my understanding they don't like to include maegashira results in ozeki runs, although I'm sure it has happened. Two of the 3 Yokozuna were out and his loss was to the 3rd. Of the K-M3 contingent, he did not face Kw (withdraw after day 10), M1e or M3e.

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I am an avid follower of Kyokutaisei but I am glad he lost after attempting a henka in the rematch. 

Love the Gyoji in the Hakuho vs Tamawashi match gesturing with his hands for them to do something after they stood there looking at each other for a couple of seconds. (Laughing...)

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Surprisingly intense for day one. I'm hoping that's a sign that this is going to be an especially exciting basho.

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1 hour ago, Morty said:

He has 14 - 1 Y followed by 10-5 with a Shukun-sho. 10 this time would put him on 34 across three basho which would be hard to argue against really. But what do I know?

Personally i think it doesnt look convincing finishing with another 10-5. Some improvement would make a statement.

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Hakuhō back to the slap, yes! Pretty worrying that he doesn’t seem to know how to do a tachiai without one anymore, but as long as he ignores the stupid calls for it to stop it should be fine. Also pretty funny bout, this is the second time I see Hakuhō do that sort of butsukari-geiko “come at me” pose, last time was some basho ago against Takakeishō. Before that time I had never seen anyone do something like that.

Tochinoshin still strong, injuries notwithstanding.

Kakuryū “pulled” but without moving backwards, Endō was just going down no point doing anything but a pull there.

Ichinojō really fat. Will he be alright?

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The main criticism against Hakuho is not the slap, but the kachiage (forearm) followup when you turn your head sideways to avoid the slap only to be bulldozed by the forearm into your face.

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Wow, I don't think there is anything more that could have gone wrong for Tochinoshin in that match and he still powered through. Against Shohozan, a very powerful guy himself. Great job but he has to do better from the tachai than that. Kakuryu looked good but he's super confident against Endo as he knows he can pull him. Hakuho looked totally lost, had zero strategy. And tired. Not good at all. Ichinojo looked very good. Somehow he stopped himself after the miss. He was losing on that a year ago. Mitakeumi and Goiedo looked good too.  Overall though not a good day. Everyone except Chiyonokuni looked like they had a hangover. Rusty.

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Slap working for Hakahou...  Tamawashi got a couple in too... Not the best swans song but enjoy Hakahou while he lasts... Ichinojo looked heavy 

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4 hours ago, since_94 said:

I keep hearing ten as the magic number but I am far from an expert so take that with a grain of salt. I defer to the knowledgeable members

10 wins should do it, as long as at least one of those wins is against one of the 3 Y/O wrestlers. Winning the yusho in January and getting 34 wins should make up for his ranking in January.

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2 hours ago, Fukurou said:

I think maybe the Yusho might be a complication (can I weasel word that any more?). Yes, he won the yusho and 2 sansho, but he was also at M3w, and it's my understanding they don't like to include maegashira results in ozeki runs, although I'm sure it has happened. Two of the 3 Yokozuna were out and his loss was to the 3rd. Of the K-M3 contingent, he did not face Kw (withdraw after day 10), M1e or M3e.

It’s not unprecedented to include a maegashira record in an ozeki run. As recently as 2015 Terunofuji’s fairly mediocre 8-7 record at M2 was counted, although his yusho was won from Sekiwake rank and he also got a jun-yusho prior to that.

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Yaaaay Ozumo time!

Ichi is looking like the michelan mascot...

I loved that hak-tamas bout! "I dare you to grab my mawashi b*"

Rooting for Toshi get 12 and put kiokai in trouble.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Jabbamaru said:

Ichi is looking like the michelan mascot...

Given your avatar, I'm a little surprised you didn't say "Ichi is looking like Jabba the Hutt"! ;-)

Heavy or not, Ichinojo looks as though he can carry that extra weight (225kg).  Have to say, Abi fought valiantly against him on Day 1.  I just hope Tochinoshin doesn't try to use his upper body strength against Ichinojo this tournament.  That would definitely strain his right shoulder injury!

Edited by Amamaniac
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18 minutes ago, Jabbamaru said:

 

Ichi is looking like the michelan mascot...

 

 

 

 

Bibendum, is his name. *The More You Know rainbow flies across the room*

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Terunofuji's 8-7 at M2 had very little to do with his Ozeki run other than the fact it was a KK.  13J-12Y has sometimes been enough to get promoted to Yokozuna, so it's clearly enough to get promoted to Ozeki when they were both at S1E.  And you don't get to be S1E unless you had a KK.  So that's all that mattered.

As for Tochinoshin, I would generally expect them to discount the number of wins from M3 by two on account of a somewhat weaker maegashira schedule than someone in sanyaku, but if he gets 11 he should have no problem in terms of numbers.  The question will still be though whether he looks like an Ozeki and whether he can beat those ranked above him.  If he loses to all 3 of them, I expect he needs to win against everyone else (ie, get 12 wins).  If he beats Hakuho, I might think that 10 wins would be enough, but I really can't recommend it on 10 wins otherwise given that his total should be discounted by 2.

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Posted (edited)

Also, I don't think high-ranked rikishi being absent has any bearing at all on whether someone's performance is good enough for promotion.  Even if you were the best rikishi in the Kyokai, Ozeki promotion wouldn't be all that likely unless you were enough better such that you could consistently put together double-digit tournaments.  One only needs to look at the games where the players' skills are much closer than rikishi abilities are to see that it's really rather difficult, even as one of the top players, to meet the Ozumo standards for Ozeki promotion.  I think only Oracle has anything resembling the same criteria as Ozumo, and that's definitely the game with the highest skill factor.  Most games only require 30 wins with the last as Sekiwake, and they're still very short on Ozeki on average compared to Ozumo.

The two high-ranked promotion are about being enough better than the field in general that you can string together those wins necessary, regardless of who they're against so long as they're the ones that are currently ranked at the top.  That's why there was that year period where there were no Yokozuna and very few Ozeki - the field was very evenly matched in terms of strength such that the stronger wrestlers couldn't just automatically pull in enough wins for promotion.  It took them a little while to improve and become dominate enough such that they could consistently beat everyone else.

Edited by Gurowake
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Dwale said:

Bibendum, is his name. *The More You Know rainbow flies across the room*

That sounded to me like it meant "Must drink" in Latin, so I looked into it more.  Wikipedia says it comes from Horace, "Nunc est Bibendum" which means basically "Now it is time to drink" ("Now is must drink" more literally).  That might partially explain why Michelin puts out those fancy restaurant guides.

Edited by Gurowake
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Tochinoshin looks very strong. Nice bout

 

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I'm very anxious to Tochinoschin vs Ichinojo bout in this tournament.

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"There is no problem with a slap and grab," said Ounomatsu Oyakata, who was the head shinpan during Hakuhou's bout. "If it were an elbow kachiage that would be a problem,  but I'm pretty sure he knows that and will keep that in check. A hari-zashi is not a problem," he explained.  Reminder-the complaints came from some YDC members, not from anyone in the Kyokai.

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Note the dragging, trailing foot in the Myogiryu/Kyokutaisei initial match.  The gyoji/shimpan seem to have missed/ignored it.

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