Preparations of the Y/O- May 2018

[Gurowake 3,883]

8 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Kisenosato and camp have made the unusual decision to wait until Friday morning to make up their minds; it's normally customary to announce by Thursday evening at the latest and not wait until right up to Friday's first meeting of the scheduling committee.

They want to mess with people playing the game named after him.  Days 1 and 2 may very well be "Guess if Kisenosato is in".

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Kise out, says NHK as of 5 minutes ago.

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Takayasu will not be starting Natsu basho either, according to press reports. The left arm injury he sustained in the rengo-keiko earlier in the week troubled him severely again in Thursday's training session and it was decided that competing just wasn't going to be possible for now. Tagonoura says they'll see how things go concerning a possible entry a few days later. (I don't really see that happening...)

Edit: The injury is somewhat vaguely reported as a partial muscle tear, though that's from what Tagonoura told the press this morning; the official diagnosis in the kyujo notice may end up more detailed than that.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Asashosakari

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

That hurts. Kise will probably be lucky to finish a full basho for the remainder of his career.

[sekitori 492]

13 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

That hurts. Kise will probably be lucky to finish a full basho for the remainder of his career.

I doubt if there is anything remaining of his career. It probably ended on the fifth day of the Hatsu basho. He hasn't appeared since then and unless he has some sort of miraculous recovery, it's quite possible that he won't appear again. This is a story of total mismanagement of an injury that could have been treated properly. Instead of opting for the obvously most effective treatment possible, surgery, his advisors suggest letting the injury heal on its own. As a result, he ends up with a permanently weakened arrm. This stupidity has literally destroyed the career of the first Japanese yokozuna in many years. Very, very sad. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by sekitori

[Dapeng 232]

43 minutes ago, sekitori said:

I doubt if there is anything remaining of his career. It probably ended on the fifth day of the Hatsu basho. He hasn't appeared since then and unless he has some sort of miracuous recovery, it's quite possible that he won't appear again. This is a story of total mismanagement of an injury that could have been treated properly. Instead of opting for the obvously most effective treatment possible, surgery, his advisors suggest letting the injury heal on its own. As a result, he ends up with a permanently weakened arrm. This stupidity has literally destroyed the career of the first Japanese yokozuna in many years. Very, very sad. 

Very sad indeed. If he wasn't a yokozuna, he still could compete in hiramaku. But now he has to retire.

[Dapeng 232]

Also bad luck for Takayasu. His zunarun will be  reset to zero.

[Rigel 62]

1 hour ago, sekitori said:

I doubt if there is anything remaining of his career. It probably ended on the fifth day of the Hatsu basho. He hasn't appeared since then and unless he has some sort of miracuous recovery, it's quite possible that he won't appear again. This is a story of total mismanagement of an injury that could have been treated properly. Instead of opting for the obvously most effective treatment possible, surgery, his advisors suggest letting the injury heal on its own. As a result, he ends up with a permanently weakened arrm. This stupidity has literally destroyed the career of the first Japanese yokozuna in many years. Very, very sad. 

Is this being reported in Japan as such? Like, is it common knowledge among sumo fans in Japan that Kisenosato's career was destroyed by not opting for surgery, or are they pretending that it was an unfortunate accident and there was nothing that could be done?

[Akinomaki 39,568]

Hakuho with the Isegahama bunch at Tomozuna-beya - ready to enter

ooo 

he loves to throw Kyokutaisei

o

 

a darker mood at Tagonoura-beya

the oyakata today explained the kyujo of Kisenosato to the media

oo o oo

 

Takanohana talked about the kyujo of Kisenosato after the torikumi conference

o oo

keiko bouts is all we'll get from him for this basho - at the soken with Kakuryu

o

with Tochinoshin

on the 7th at the Nishonoseki rengo-geiko - with Yoshikaze

o

on the 8th at the rengo-geiko - with Kotoshogiku

oo

after the rengo geiko thinking about the future among the trash

oo 

just light basics the next day

o oooooo

Takayasu and the oyakata watch keiko on the 10th

o ooo

afterwards the oyakata talked about whether Kisenosato enters or not

oo o

Takayasu is kyujo as well with an injured left arm

oo

he lent his chest to the young ones in the end

o

and explained his kyujo himself to the media today

ooooo

Edited May 13, 2018 by Akinomaki

[ryafuji 806]

I see the press are noting that Kisenosato missing seven straight tournaments equals the longest ever yokozuna absence, although Kise did at least enter some of them, whereas Takanohana did not step onto the dohyo once during his seven tournament absence in 2001/2.

[Dapeng 232]

2 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I see the press are noting that Kisenosato missing seven straight tournaments equals the longest ever yokozuna absence, although Kise did at least enter some of them, whereas Takanohana did not step onto the dohyo once during his seven tournament absence in 2001/2.

Fifty yards vs. 100 yards.

[Tsubame 355]

What is this "yards"?

Some kind of ancient measurement? Only used by some old, backward societies?

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

5 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I see the press are noting that Kisenosato missing seven straight tournaments equals the longest ever yokozuna absence, although Kise did at least enter some of them, whereas Takanohana did not step onto the dohyo once during his seven tournament absence in 2001/2.

I think the terminology is being applied kind of broadly. I think where Kise has tied Takanohana is that both men have declared kyujo, regardless of having entered or not.

[Akinomaki 39,568]

Takayasu now trains with the intention to enter the basho later

o

[Eikokurai 3,433]

On 5/11/2018 at 03:46, Dapeng said:

Also bad luck for Takayasu. His zunarun will be  reset to zero.

I’m not particularly convinced Takayasu has been on a tsuna run to be honest. His two JYs weren’t that spectacular as he was never in the lead at any point or even tied. Indeed, he started slowly both times and came back to reach 12 wins. He’s also only been ozeki for a year which goes against him. I think he was always going to need back to back yushos, so not much has changed in that regard.

[orandashoho 720]

On ‎11‎.‎05‎.‎2018 at 20:23, Tsubame said:

What is this "yards"?

Some kind of ancient measurement? Only used by some old, backward societies?

A yard is slightly less than a metre (0,9144).
The British still measure everything nondecimally. They have feet, yards furlongs, miles, leagues...  

And even the Imperial gallons are not to be confused with gallons elsewhee in the world... a wonder that they managed to convert the currency into decimals, doing away with the

[Naganoyama 5,817]

Actually the British have a (sometimes problematic) mixture of Imperial and SI units.

If you go in to a supermarket and look at the packaging of items you will find both. It's a bit irritating if you're making a cake which calls for 8 ounces of sugar and you have bought a 200 g bag. (Because of course all your best cake recipes were your mother's and she got them from your grandmother who wrote them down pre-decimalisation)

Edited May 14, 2018 by Naganoyama

[RabidJohn 1,638]

On 11/05/2018 at 19:23, Tsubame said:

What is this "yards"?

It's perfectly straightforward. A yard is 36 inches, or 3 feet, or half a fathom, or 1/22 of a chain, or 1/220 of a furlong, or 1/1760 of a mile!

Officially, the UK is metric now. Go to a supermarket and everything is in grams and kilograms, fill up with fuel at a station and it's in litres, but the road signs and speed limits are still in miles and miles per hour, and anglers wouldn't dream of quoting a fish weight in anything other than pounds and ounces.

When I mentioned to my wife that Ichinojo was up to 225kg at the recent weigh-in, she asked, "How many stones is that?" (It's just over 35, if you're still with me.)

I recently had to replace some fence panels and selected some feather-edge panels that were 1830mm x 915mm. The code was FE6x3; i.e. six feet by three feet...

Yep, we are undoubtedly somewhat reluctant to let our old British Imperial measurements slide into the past, but what amuses me is how tightly the USA clings to the historic system of its old colonial master.

Edited May 16, 2018 by RabidJohn

[Akinomaki 39,568]

On 5/12/2018 at 04:16, Akinomaki said:

Takayasu now trains with the intention to enter the basho later

Takayasu is recovering well, but his stance about entering later is cautious: "I don't think that I definitely won't enter, but I don't want to do anything unreasonable." The oyakata: "It's meaningless if he doesn't enter during the first half. We don't know yet how it will develop." http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20180514/sum18051421220019-n1.html

It's meaningless if he doesn't enter by day 5

[Gurowake 3,883]

Yeah, I think it's a little late for Takayasu to enter now, not being on the torikumi for Day 5.  While he still theoretically could go 8-2, it seems just as likely to cause a re-aggravation.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Gurowake

[Churaumi 725]

Kadoban is kadoban, be it 7-8 or 0-15. Sucks about the tsuna run but it seemed like an outside chance even if he’d won the tournament. If he’s really yokozuna material, the chance will come back around if he doesn’t pull a Kisenosato and not take care of his injuries properly.

[sekitori 492]

11 hours ago, Churaumi said:

Kadoban is kadoban, be it 7-8 or 0-15. Sucks about the tsuna run but it seemed like an outside chance even if he’d won the tournament. If he’s really yokozuna material, the chance will come back around if he doesn’t pull a Kisenosato and not take care of his injuries properly.

I disagree with the phrase "pull a Kisenosato". Very poor judgement resulting  in the total mismanagement of his injury is not Kisenosato's fault.  The decision not to treat it properly lies squarely with his oyakata and others advising him. The phrase should instead be "pull a Tagonoura".

[Asashosakari 18,670]

25 minutes ago, sekitori said:

I disagree with the phrase "pull a Kisenosato". Very poor judgement resulting  in the total mismanagement of his injury is not Kisenosato's fault.  The decision not to treat it properly lies squarely with his oyakata and others advising him. The phrase should instead be "pull a Tagonoura".

How would you (or any of us) know that? None of the decision-making process has been made public. And the presumably implied "rikishi don't get to make any decisions about their own careers" should have been imploded as a myth - again - for anyone who read the Amuru intai thread a few days ago, which included a quote of the following:

On 12/2/2011 at 08:27, Kintamayama said:

One of the new promotees to Juryo is Russian Amuuru (28). (...) Last autumn he had a torn ligament and missed Kyushu and Hatsu. His shisho pressured him to undergo surgery but he refused. "I would have been sidelined for a year and would have dropped off the banzuke," he said. He went for rehabilitation and using his own diet method (intake of proteins within 30 minutes after keiko) and perseverance and strengthening of muscles, he recuperated.

And that was a rikishi in makushita, not a yokozuna. Unless he personally speaks about it after his career, I doubt anyone here will ever find out if Kisenosato received bad advice, or simply overruled good advice (as hypercompetitive athletes are often prone to do).

I do hope the story gets told eventually, because there's likely something to be learned from it no matter who made the bad call.

Anyway, no matter who's "at fault", the real problem isn't with Kisenosato, or with Tagonoura, or with any other individual. It's an institutional problem, because it's simply commonly accepted in Ozumo that competing with and training through injuries are sensible things to do.

[Kintamayama 44,267]

I think Kisenosato can pretty much cope with the injury at the moment. His problem is not physical. I have no proof , but others closer to him have said that before this basho. I think it was Hakkaku, don't remember, and I have been of that school of thought for the last two bashos. After being away for a long time, it's really difficult to get back in the groove of any sport. Kisenosato was never strong mentally, and that's an understatement.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Asojima 2,870]

7 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I think Kisenosato can pretty much cope with the injury at the moment. His problem is not physical. I have no proof , but others closer to him have said that before this basho. I think it was Hakkaku, don't remember, and I have been of that school of thought for the last two bashos. After being away for a long time, it's really difficult to get back in the groove of any sport. Kisenosato was never strong mentally, and that's an understatement.

I suspect that he has healed physically as much as he would have with surgery.  He has had plenty of solid advice on the pros and cons of the surgery.  I find it hard to believe that sekitori struggle through injuries in the vacuum postulated by many of our "informed" members. He has always been essentially a one-horse rikishi.  To continue, he will have to change horses to compensate for his lost power.  I don't think he has the mental attitude needed to grow out of this.