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Women mount dohyo during emergency at jungyo

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This all reminds me of a few publicized incidents on airlines in the US in the last year or two - passenger gets ill, flight attendant asks if there is a doctor/nurse on board, female doctor responds. From there it was either they didn't believe she was a doctor and told her to get out of the way or thought she was a nurse and told her to get out of the way when a male medical person arrived. And then airlines profusely apologize when things got out, and their PR takes yet another hit.

I don't think much will change wrt the general "women on the dohyo" situation - participating rikishi, hair cutting, trophy presenting, the usual stuff. It will take much more than this to change those things.  And I hope Mr trainee-gyoji has learned to find out what's going on before blindly making announcements over the PA system based on something he overheard.

OTOH I do think they will make a change for situations regarding emergencies - be it injuries, life saving, something else. If a woman is an emergency responder of some sort and she needs to get up on the dohyo for whatever reason, then she gets up on the dohyo and does what needs to be done, no questions asked. Would the NSK rather have someone die on the dohyo while they wait for their assigned medics to show up from the coffee room down the aisle or wherever they hang out***, or let a female nurse sitting in the first 5 rows come on up and begin treatment immediately? They don't have to publicize a change (unless forced to) because there are always those who would point at it and say "but you let her go up!" (cough - politicians - cough) But they do need to make some sort of small policy change and make sure the right people know about it so they won't get in the way.

Someone upthread mentioned coming up with a quick ceremony to re-bless the doyho and thank the emergency people. Maybe they could check their local shinto place of worship - perhaps one they could use already exists, else maybe one can be created. Or they could just throw a ton of salt on it.

EDIT
***  remember the videos from a year or two back where the rikishi were knocking each other flat out and the unconscious guy would just lay unmoving on the doyho, or worse, get himself upright and then stagger around and nearly fall off the doyho? No one ringside would go up to check on them or help them (though people at ground level did grab at the guy who was falling over the side). They were all standing around, even the gyoji in the ring, waiting for the designated medical people to show up and it seemingly took freaking forever for them to do so. (are the kyokai's ringside medical people actually medical people? I recall someone once said they are not, but I do not know the truth of this)

Edited by Fukurou

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20 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

remember the videos from a year or two back where the rikishi were knocking each other flat out and the unconscious guy would just lay unmoving on the doyho, or worse, get himself upright and then stagger around and nearly fall off the doyho? No one ringside would go up to check on them or help them (though people at ground level did grab at the guy who was falling over the side). They were all standing around, even the gyoji in the ring, waiting for the designated medical people to show up and it seemingly took freaking forever for them to do so.

Just in time for this, someone posted that video again today

 

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9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

 

So much for this blowing over in a few days.. and we still haven't heard from the local politicians..

My feeling is, that this was never going to just blow over. Since I started working in a Japanese company and in and out of Japan 10 years ago so much has changed with regards to women. There were basically only secretaries when I started but now women are every where and getting in to executive and political positions. Hell, last nomikai with engineering stopped by a discount makeup barrel between nijikai and sanjikai, just because so many of the engineers are women now.

One of the su-jo at work told me, if that's how they're gonna treat women they should've just let him die there, in so many words.

If it's true about it being a Western inspired rule then it's as good as gone. Even not, if it's not gone this year it will be gone in the future. There's a lot of women filling the stands, joining koenkai, etc. And one adage older than sumo is "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

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6 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

For example, a red carpet on the dohyo or a tatami or little raised platform to step on (edit: as opposed to one alongside).  Then technically they are not actually on the dohyo.

yup!  the idea of a wooden platform being put up and across the dohyo, for the female Osaka governor to present the yusho trophy, was thrown around back then...

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1 hour ago, Fukurou said:

OTOH I do think they will make a change for situations regarding emergencies - be it injuries, life saving, something else. If a woman is an emergency responder of some sort and she needs to get up on the dohyo for whatever reason, then she gets up on the dohyo and does what needs to be done, no questions asked.

Or they will ensure that all emergency responders/medics employed to work in the arena or ringside just 'happen' to be male....  Perhaps I am being unduly cynical.

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German Süddeutsche Zeitung had an interesting article today.

This really surprised me...as we all know, the Emperor is going to step down next year. But what i didn't know is, that there are no women allowed during the enthronement ceremony fo Naruhito, not even the princesses. And since this is a state act, the head of state is involved. If Seiko Noda gets elected prime minister, she wouldn't be allowed there, too.

 

Women on the dohyo as rikishi, gyoji, shinpan, etc.? Absolutely no. There's a higher chance for female catholic priests, than for female gyoji.  But i would be delighted to see pro-sumo done by women as a normal sport. Heck, why not install another branch of ozumo that still goes the traditional ways, but a bit reformed? You know, like what that Martin Luther guy initiated 500 years ago. Who could stop them if they got enough backers?

But since doctors, politicians and mums aren't directly involved in the bouts and rituals, i have absolutely no tolerance for a general no-women-rule.

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7 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Heck, why not install another branch of ozumo that still goes the traditional ways, but a bit reformed? You know, like what that Martin Luther guy initiated 500 years ago.

Oh, great, then we get the Thirty Years' (Sumo) War.

 

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5 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Oh, great, then we get the Thirty Years' (Sumo) War.

Just imagine hordes of rikishi tsuppariing each other through ginza. I want that. (Laughing...)

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"Hey, why are you allowing that woman to climb onto the dohyo?"

"Well, we're Reformed Shinto."

 

Edited by Yamanashi
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2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Just in time for this, someone posted that video again today

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten about the yobidashi(?) being sent up to do the "are you breathing? get up, you're bleeding on the dohyo" thing.

Edited by Fukurou

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6 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Or invent some sort of traditional-looking mini-consecration ceremony that gets used to mark the daily beginning and the end of the dohyo's actual usage as a place for training or competition to separate that time period from "other usage" like speeches and presentations, regardless of whether those are done by men or women.

I'd be surprised if the dohyo matsuri itself predated the 19th century, so inventing a new ceremony like this cannot be out of the question.

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This story just shows what I HATE about western media. I haven't seen this story yet personally in US articles, but it sounds like there's some out there. People over here don't give a rat's a** about sumo. This country laughs at rikishi for their bodies, their attire, stereotypes it, and the traditions and general. They make fun of their weight and appearance, the mawashis, the tradition, and the general image is just of two naked sweaty fat men rolling around on each other with "Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting" playing in the background. The ONLY time anyone even cares about sumo is when there's a scandal. There is no acknowledgement of Hakuho or anyone else whatsoever over here. There was a time with some ESPN article I saw on here a while back of the most dominant athletes in the world where bronze metal winners from the Blind Austrian Men's Skiing Championships would get a mention before anyone in sumo. Yet somehow everyone knows about the scandal ridden recent history of sumo. What hypocrites. A DUI or worse over here is as common as a matta in sumo. I'm just so tired of hearing the American or in other cases, any sort of news jump all over anything that happens in sumo. Every story on sumo begins with, "This is another black mark on the scandal filled world of sumo, including match-fixing, gambling, and assault." I myself think it's beyond fundamentally wrong women are treated impure to the dohyo, and I think about everyone in sumo doesn't think they are impure either, but it's the religious ceremonies of a different country, why is anyone getting involved that wouldn't usually give anything close to a care about sumo. 

 

Oh yeah, there's news in America, GREAT, another time for the convenient news magazines to "care" about sumo. 

Edited by Yukiarashi
massive grammar errors
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Female Mayor Nakagawa  of Takarazuka gave her speech from the side of the dohyo yesterday, just like last year. She was not happy. "There are female governors, female mayors and perhaps we will see a female Prime Minister. During these times, is it right to totally ban women from the dohyo?", she asked. While the crowd clapped, there were male voices shouting "Won't happen!!" Later she held a press conference at City Hall. "They were throwing a lot of salt on the dohyo after the women mounted the dohyo, as if women are something totally impure. As a woman, i was deeply offended. As for next year, I don't mind if it's on the dohyo or off the dohyo, as long as  by then men and women will be equally allowed on the dohyo. Not allowing women on the dohyo is discrimination. I'd like this to be discussed," she said, intending to present the Kyokai with a written document expressing her views. "We have no intention to slight women. This has been going on since the beginning and we are continuing the tradition," explained Kasugano jungyo boss.

"Won't happen!!"

201804070000106-w500_0.jpg

Now, a simple question, without taking sides on this matter. Would Ms. Nakagawa have made the same fiery speech if the stuff didn't happen a few days ago? If this is really something that irks her, why didn't she complain about this last year as well?  It's not something new, this ban. It's not a secret, this ban. Where have all the people who are complaining now, male and female, been all these years?

Tokyo Governor Ms. Yuriko Koike at the regular meeting today: "What the nurse did was wonderful. Saving a life comes before anything, and that goes without saying. " The Governor Cup is awarded to the yusho winner in Tokyo, and her deputy has been awarding it lately.  "I really don't have the energy to challenge the Kyokai and demand to award the Cup myself.." she added.

 

 

Edited by Kintamayama
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Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is. Just allow women on the dohyo and be done with it. Especially if noone really knows Why this rule is in place anyway.

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2 hours ago, Kaioshoryu said:

Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is. Just allow women on the dohyo and be done with it. Especially if noone really knows Why this rule is in place anyway.

Same reason why there are no women in Mongolian bokh?

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2 hours ago, Kaioshoryu said:

Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is. Just allow women on the dohyo and be done with it. Especially if noone really knows Why this rule is in place anyway.

While we're at it, lets cover up the rikishi's asses as well. Seeing bare assess deeply offends me and my religion. I love sumo, but this is against my beliefs. They should wear short pants, and mawashis on top of them. What's the big deal??

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On 5.4.2018 at 08:47, Kintamayama said:

 Kasugano himself was in the toilet when it happened.

Well, it appears he did not tell the truth. Pictures have emerged on the internet where someone who looks an awful lot like Kasugano close to the dohyo while all this was happening.  He quickly admitted that it was him in the photos. "I made sure Hanakago Oyakata (his deputy) was close to the dohyo. He was taking care .." he now says. "I was preparing to go to watch the Makuuchi bouts," he explained, saying he was backstage where the toilets are too. Then, after hearing there was a disturbance in the kitchen in the hall itself , he looked and asserted that his deputy Hanakago was close to the dohyo. "When the mayor was taken out on a stretcher, I accompanied him," he added. As for the offending announcement, he learned about it later, as he said he was too busy dealing with the emergency at hand.

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

"They were throwing a lot of salt on the dohyo after the women mounted the dohyo, as if women are something totally impure. As a woman, i was deeply offended. [...]"

The salt was not thrown because some women had been on the dohyo. The salt would have to be thrown because someone was stricken with grave injury on the dohyo.

I wonder what he is thinking now, lying in hospital, presumably out of danger and able to talk. Is he aware of the storm his rescuer's presence on the dohyo has raised? Has there been any reaction from him? Has there been a hospital visit by the Kyokai?

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Just now, orandashoho said:

The salt was not thrown because some women had been on the dohyo. The salt would have to be thrown because someone was stricken with grave injury on the dohyo.

 

Who wants to be bothered with trivialities like the truth?

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

 

201804070000106-w500_0.jpg

Now, a simple question, without taking sides on this matter. Would Ms. Nakagawa have made the same fiery speech if the stuff didn't happen a few days ago? If this is really something that irks her, why didn't she complain about this last year as well?  It's not something new, this ban. It's not a secret, this ban. Where have all the people who are complaining now, male and female, been all these years?

 

Because the shift in women's place in Japanese society the past few years. They work, they vote, Nakagawa-san can get their vote by doing things like this.

Things change, and somebody has to make the first news. It's like Zeno's paradox in reverse.

Don't take my word for it though.

http://www.gender.go.jp/research/kenkyu/pdf/kenkyu_01.pdf

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35 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Because the shift in women's place in Japanese society the past few years. They work, they vote, Nakagawa-san can get their vote by doing things like this.

Things change, and somebody has to make the first news. It's like Zeno's paradox in reverse.

Don't take my word for it though.

http://www.gender.go.jp/research/kenkyu/pdf/kenkyu_01.pdf

Yes, that is true, but the shift didn't start three days ago. First news? You really think this is a first step towards letting women on the dohyo? You really think not letting women on the dohyo has something even remotely to do with women's rights?

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2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

While we're at it, lets cover up the rikishi's asses as well. Seeing bare assess deeply offends me and my religion. I love sumo, but this is against my beliefs. They should wear short pants, and mawashis on top of them. What's the big deal??

There is a difference between women and asses...

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6 minutes ago, Kaioshoryu said:

There is a difference between women and asses...

You are missing the point. It's tradition. It's not women because they are women. It's because it's part of the tradition. I know that this concept doesn't go down well with some other sumo fans. Your statement that there is a difference between women and asses only proves my point.  It isn't that simple. Sumo isn't that simple. Making demands to change sumo's traditions, however offensive it may seem to some, is not simple. And if you are such an advocate of equality for women regardless of anything, why aren't you complaining that the Kyokai is overwhelmingly made up of men? There are outside members today too, mostly men. I'm sure there are very qualified women who are sumo experts that could easily be part of this. Still, other than the odd Uchidate and Ikenobo.. nothing. I repeat -if this is such a burning issue that must be resolved now, where was everyone right up until the 4th of April? Why was it a total non-issue, and I mean TOTAL non-issue, since Governor Ota stopped being in office, when it was, again, a mini-issue, mostly among foreign sumo fans?

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5 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

You are missing the point. It's tradition. It's not women because they are women. It's because it's part of the tradition. I know that this concept doesn't go down well with some other sumo fans. Your statement that there is a difference between women and asses only proves my point.  It isn't that simple. Sumo isn't that simple. Making demands to change sumo's traditions, however offensive it may seem to some, is not simple. And if you are such an advocate of equality for women regardless of anything, why aren't you complaining that the Kyokai is overwhelmingly made up of men? There are outside members today too, mostly men. I'm sure there are very qualified women who are sumo experts that could easily be part of this. Still, other than the odd Uchidate and Ikenobo.. nothing. I repeat -if this is such a burning issue that must be resolved now, where was everyone right up until the 4th of April? Why was it a total non-issue, and I mean TOTAL non-issue, since Governor Ota stopped being in office, when it was, again, a mini-issue, mostly among foreign sumo fans?

Methinks you are taking this issue a bit more seriously than me Kinta.... I haven't really advocated anything. And you are probably correct in everything you write, I'm just not certain allowing women to stand on the dohyo will lead to the total annihilation of all sumo traditions. 

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3 minutes ago, Kaioshoryu said:

 I'm just not certain allowing women to stand on the dohyo will lead to the total annihilation of all sumo traditions. 

It won't. But it would break with tradition-that is the whole story. When I say "you" I mean all those that actually think this can ever happen. And you know me-I don't take anything that seriously-just trying to make a point. If pigs fly and this would actually happen? Great. I personally don't think it's an issue, but I do respect tradition of others, as strange as they may seem to me..

Edited by Kintamayama
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