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Women mount dohyo during emergency at jungyo

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The mayor of Takarazuka was at the NSK offices today, to hand in a letter of demand for abolishing the tradition to ban women on the doyho.

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and she gave a press conference on the spot

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Edited by Akinomaki
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A link to Kyodo's article about the above visit, in English.

She met with Shibatayama, the head of PR.  "Mr. Shibatayama said he heard me as a member of the (JSA) board and said they will hold discussions. I hope that this takes us forward and tradition isn't used as an excuse to end talks," Nakagawa said.

Also from the article:  "she proposed changes to existing rules, such as one that prohibits female politicians from honoring winners in the ring."

So, multiple rule changes proposed, but the only one mentioned in the article is the one having to do with politicians.

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4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The mayor of Takarazuka was at the NSK offices today, to hand in a letter of demand for abolishing the tradition to ban women on the doyho.

And then she went to the sports ministry to hand in a request to have them suggest changes to the NSK

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NHK news page with video: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180419/k10011410171000.html

 

On the same day, the mayor of Otsu, where the summer jungyo is planned in July, told the jungyo men on simple PR duty to have changes in the NSK and told the press that she'll refuse to make the address speech from below the dohyo.

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NHK local news page with video: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/kansai-news/20180419/4082531.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

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2 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

Sure. But wouldn't it be cool if a male mayor then send his female vice mayor for these duties…  Take that, NSK! ;-) 

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18 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

The Kyokai might not have to plan for it; the local people who promote these events may well stop asking for jungyo to come to their towns - some as a show of support for their female mayors, some because they don't want the embarrassment.

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43 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:
19 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

The Kyokai might not have to plan for it; the local people who promote these events may well stop asking for jungyo to come to their towns - some as a show of support for their female mayors, some because they don't want the embarrassment.

There are two parties in making a jungyo stopover happen -- the NSK and the local government. Can the NSK ignore a town that insists on a jungyo stopover? Can the NSK impose a stopover in a town? Both parties have to sign the contract.

I am just not sure how much one party in the negotiations can pressure the other.
The NSK could argue that a female politician mounting the dohyo would enrage the crowd so much that it might become an unruly mob creating unsafe situations. In that case, how do the officials of a town prove that the crowd won't become a mob?
The abolishment of the ban is like any tradition-breaking civil rights campaign: you need heroes willing to make a point, and you'll get violent opposition from those who already have those rights. When a stage for a confrontation is set, people from outside town will be attracted, including those intent to disturb proceedings that would have been peaceful without them.

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The mayor of Takarazuka keeps the campaign to get rid of the ban running. Another interview today: she contacted female mayors from cities all over Japan and asks them to have a nationwide dispute about it and put pressure on the NSK NHK local news page with video

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the mayor of Otsu had started with it yesterday

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after the visit to the kokugikan yesterday

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ANN news video from the actions of the 2 mayors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU969Er65us

Edited by Akinomaki
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16 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The mayor of Takarazuka keeps the campaign to get rid of the ban running. Another interview today: she contacted female mayors from cities all over Japan and asks them to have a nationwide dispute about it and put pressure on the NSK

She contacted the other 19 mayors and heads of special city wards (now  Adachi-ku). https://uub.jp/cpf/female.html

Those of Mitaka and Amagasaki have endorsed the campaign. They want to ask for the cooperation of monka-sho Hayashi, as the top supervisor of the NSK.

http://mainichi.jp/articles/20180421/ddl/k28/050/324000c

Edited by Akinomaki
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At a special riji-kai on the 28th, the tradition of banning women from the dohyo will be discussed, including the NSK's external officials. That was a demand of the mayor of Takarazuka and PR top Shibatayama had promised to enter a dispute about it, but: "I don't know if we can reach a prompt decision." http://mainichi.jp//mainichi.jp/articles/20180424/k00/00m/050/040000c

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The mayor of Maizuru, who was the cause for all this, can talk now, but still needs rest. He was moved from the ICU to an ordinary sickbed on the 20th. It is expected that he can resume his duties during the first 10 days of May. http://www3.nhk.or.jp/lnews/kyoto/2014093161.html

It may take longer though, no visits allowed yet. 2 weeks or more in the ICU points to a severe case of SAH. http://mainichi.jp/articles/20180424/ddl/k26/050/459000c

Edited by Akinomaki
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The Kyokai is still dragging its feet concerning the women on the dohyo issue.They met yesterday and discussed this for over an hour. "In cases of emergency, women will be allowed on the dohyo," said the rijicho. As for women mounting the dohyo to give speeches- "We need more time  to discuss this." So essentially, nothing new. 
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2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:
The Kyokai is still dragging its feet concerning the women on the dohyo issue.They met yesterday and discussed this for over an hour. "In cases of emergency, women will be allowed on the dohyo," said the rijicho. As for women mounting the dohyo to give speeches- "We need more time  to discuss this." So essentially, nothing new. 

No jungyo tour after the May basho, maybe they're hoping it'll all be off the headlines by August when they're back on the road. (Does Japan go on legislative break during the summer like other countries' governments do?)

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6 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

No jungyo tour after the May basho, maybe they're hoping it'll all be off the headlines by August when they're back on the road. (Does Japan go on legislative break during the summer like other countries' governments do?)

And regarding girls, they will review it in August. The thing is, I don't think this whole affair is going to die down this time, although I do think the end result will be no change.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I don't know. I agree that this issue is unlikely to give way this time. But of the scandals plaguing the kyokai at the moment, it's going to be far easier for them to ease restrictions on women touching the dohyo, than, say, undertaking the organizational and cultural changes necessary to stamp out violent abuse within heyas. So if they give ground on this issue, make limited allowances for women or girls, etc. etc. they can say, "Look, we're being progressive!" while simultaneously being able to shuffle "Don't beat rikishi to death" to the bottom of their to-do list. 

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

And regarding girls, they will review it in August. The thing is, I don't think this whole affair is going to die down this time, although I do think the end result will be no change.

Eventually they will have to give up the  "no girls" thing , even if it is tradition. Might as well get it over with now.

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32 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

(Lengthy) official Kyokai statement about the incident in Maizuru, women on the dohyo in general, and girls participating in children sumo: http://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=268

It's the long version of what I wrote yesterday. 

1. No question  that women are allowed  on the dohyo in time of emergency-the young gyoji got it wrong.

2. Women have not been allowed on the dohyo, not because they are impure, but because it's where men go out and endanger their lives daily etc. Every now and then this problem arises, we need more time to see what can be done etc.

3. Girls training with the sekitori during jungyo suspended because of the danger of getting injured: 2 complaints were lodged by parents whose boys were injured during the Haru jungyo, causing the kids' sumo to be suspended altogether till they find a better way to do it without risk of injury.

Edited by Kintamayama
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10 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

It's the long version of what I wrote yesterday.

Sure, I just figured somebody might be interested in the whole ball of wax.

Hakkaku et al. have put a lot of effort into section 2, referencing public statements from as far back as 1978 to disavow the "impurity" notion.

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10 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

3. Girls training with the sekitori during jungyo suspended because of the danger of getting injured: 2 complaints were lodged by parents whose boys were injured during the Haru jungyo, causing the kids' sumo to be suspended altogether till they find a better way to do it without risk of injury.

So two boys get hurt, and then, girls can't do kids' sumo anymore? This kind of statement shows that in this case, it's no longer a question of respect for traditions. It is only about the fact that, for many Japanese, a girl is still a cute, fragile little thing that needs protection. In 2018, could we hope that this way of thinking should evolve a little bit?

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8 minutes ago, serge_gva said:

So two boys get hurt, and then, girls can't do kids' sumo anymore? This kind of statement shows that in this case, it's no longer a question of respect for traditions. It is only about the fact that, for many Japanese, a girl is still a cute, fragile little thing that needs protection. In 2018, could we hope that this way of thinking should evolve a little bit?

If I understood correctly, they stopped the kids' sumo altogether at some point, not only the girls'.

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4 hours ago, serge_gva said:

 ...for many Japanese, a girl is still a cute, fragile little thing that needs protection ...

And how exactly is this wrong if I may ask? It is not Japan where the girls in majority are overweight starting their early teenage girls as we see in some "modern" places where the "2018 values" exist. Where family is hardly a factor in a child's life and the child is encouraged from early age to accept her future work in the local market or Mcdonalds. So if this is how the Japanese look on girls, claps for them. 

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1 hour ago, Chankomafuji said:

And how exactly is this wrong if I may ask? It is not Japan where the girls in majority are overweight starting their early teenage girls as we see in some "modern" places where the "2018 values" exist. Where family is hardly a factor in a child's life and the child is encouraged from early age to accept her future work in the local market or Mcdonalds. So if this is how the Japanese look on girls, claps for them. 

With respect, but what are you even saying? I've read your post a few times and it's difficult for me to even piece together a coherent argument.

So you're saying that in "modern places" with "2018 values" (your quotes, presumably you are talking about the West and not Japan?) girls grow up without a sense of family and are somehow encouraged to take up low end jobs like working at McDonalds? And you applaud Japan because things are different over there?

I don't get it. I'm guessing you're against women joining the workforce in equal measure as men, and that they should—at least to a greater degree than men—dedicate themselves to the task of running a family.

Let me know if I'm wrong about any of these assumptions, because it's genuinely hard for me to understand your post. But to be frank, it seems to me that your whole opinion on this is based on a misunderstanding of how the world works. It's good that women are entering the workforce, and this doesn't just mean girls end up doing low end work like flipping burgers. It means they get real career opportunities in hopefully equal measure as boys.

And just the same, little girls should not be seen as somehow being more fragile than little boys, and therefore unfit to take part in contact sports. Because they're not. There's boxing for girls, wrestling for girls, karate for girls, capoeira for girls...and so on. All those sports have been doing fine for ages.

Edited by dada78641
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13 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

With respect, but what are you even saying? I've read your post a few times and it's difficult for me to even piece together a coherent argument.

So you're saying that in "modern places" with "2018 values" (your quotes, presumably you are talking about the West and not Japan?) girls grow up without a sense of family and are somehow encouraged to take up low end jobs like working at McDonalds? And you applaud Japan because things are different over there?

I don't get it. I'm guessing you're against women joining the workforce in equal measure as men, and that they should—at least to a greater degree than men—dedicate themselves to the task of running a family.

Let me know if I'm wrong about any of these assumptions, because it's genuinely hard for me to understand your post. But to be frank, it seems to me that your whole opinion on this is based on a misunderstanding of how the world works. It's good that women are entering the workforce, and this doesn't just mean girls end up doing low end work like flipping burgers. It means they get real career opportunities in hopefully equal measure as boys.

And just the same, little girls should not be seen as somehow being more fragile than little boys, and therefore unfit to take part in contact sports. Because they're not. There's boxing for girls, wrestling for girls, karate for girls, capoeira for girls...and so on. All those sports have been doing fine for ages.

Forgive me, but the only mistake in my 4 sentence post is where I say "teenage girls" instead of "teenage years", which should not be too hard to guess as just like you said, you read my post a few times. Other than that it is all on you if you can or not "piece together a coherent argument".
You are free to guess which are the "modern places" that I am talking about, but allow me to point that "the West" does not certainly share views on values and understandings.
No, I'm certainly not against "women joining the workforce in equal measure as men". There are many construction sites looking for workers and I don't remember seeing "no women allowed", yet there aren't many women that do construction, are there? What even is your definition of "equal measure" then? As if a women "at least to a greater degree than men—dedicate themselves to the task of running a family" you once again have to define what "running a family" means as I am the one who doesn't get it now. If you allow me to guess that by "running a family"  you mean "taking care at home" (at least to a greater degree than men as you put it), yes that is correct. You disagree? I expect the politically correct "equal measure" response on this question too.
If my previous 4 sentence post is "genuinely hard to understand" I believe this one, being longer, will be impossible to. For this it will not be way too long. As it seems to you, my "whole opinion on this is based on a misunderstanding of how the world works". And if you can be that generous, explain me how the world works. The real world, not the imaginary one.

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2 hours ago, Chankomafuji said:

Forgive me, but the only mistake in my 4 sentence post is where I say "teenage girls" instead of "teenage years", which should not be too hard to guess as just like you said, you read my post a few times. Other than that it is all on you if you can or not "piece together a coherent argument".

So you object to girls (and women, I suppose) being overweight. In the world with "2018 values" the ready availability of unhealthy fast food has caused obesity in both men and women. You are right that this is to be deplored, but wrong to reserve your objection to the female sex. Being well fed is no longer the sign of prosperity and health that it has been for many centuries. On the other hand, aspiring to reach that fotoshopped thinness portrayed in the media isn't healthy either -- and that aspiration is almost exclusively reserved for women. People are waking up to this fact thanks to women challenging the proliferation of such imagery by the media that is causing so much teenage anorexia and distress. It"s just one of the many fronts on which small strides are being made towards attaining new balance in society where both sexes can live in equality.

 

2 hours ago, Chankomafuji said:


No, I'm certainly not against "women joining the workforce in equal measure as men". There are many construction sites looking for workers and I don't remember seeing "no women allowed", yet there aren't many women that do construction, are there?

Perhaps that is just an effect of discouraging girls to rough-and-tumble like boys.

@Chankomafuji, The way the world works? We are biological creatures, animals who have evolved to accept social conditions beyond what might be optimum for a human being. Cultural differences exist as safety valves for the strains and stresses of not being in control of all aspects of our lives. And that world is perpetually in flux, always changing, with laws that are never absolute. You should really try to find some people to play "Nomic" with to get a taste of how insecure the foundations we rely on really are.
And we need the capabilities of people of both sexes to continue our incredible evolutionary adventure without making our world unlivable. Really.

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