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Women mount dohyo during emergency at jungyo

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On 4/14/2018 at 18:18, orandashoho said:

Doesn't anybody see how this confirms the belief that the most important attribute of a women is her LOOKS,  her physical attractiveness? We still live in the stone age of the caveman's hindbrain. No wonder that so many women have to resort to exploiting their looks to get ahead in life. And that many not so blessed must fight so hard to be counted.

Well... belief or base instinct? (Man prefer pretty woman for, uh, babymaking attempt)

Or a belief in a base instinct involving gender inequality? (Man strong and tough and mean, man better)

Speaking of which, perhaps this particular article has some additional relevance or ... reinforcement.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/11/02/national/social-issues/japan-drops-114th-gender-equality-rankings-world-economic-forum/

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4 hours ago, Shinrei said:

Well... belief or base instinct? (Man prefer pretty woman for, uh, babymaking attempt)

Or a belief in a base instinct involving gender inequality? (Man strong and tough and mean, man better)

Yes of course it is biology and instinct, the hindbrain is governing gut reactions. Looks are essential to gain respect and success -- people with asymmetrical faces or twisted bodies are rarely seen as role models. Why do you think so many women preserve their looks with cosmetic surgery? It's so much harder to be respected if you're "fat" and "ugly". Beneath the political correctness in some countries, sexploitation is still rife. I'm not saying that you can discount biological facts. I am saying that everything we do or think is distorted by the need to fit into male or female roles. I'm saying that this is perpetuated with conditioning in early life and no amount of deprogramming can undo it without creating new convoluted ways of treating members of the opposite sex. I am saying this: babies and toddlers should be treated as gender neutral human beings and children must be allowed to develop free of sexual segregation, because that will create a better basis for equality than any law or politically correctness -- but of course we could make a start by allowing little girls on dohyos, allowing them the experience of scrapes and cuts and bruises, because they don't have to become dolls and a cut on their face should never be the end of their usefulness in life.
 

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1 hour ago, orandashoho said:

we could make a start by allowing little girls on dohyos, allowing them the experience of scrapes and cuts and bruises, because they don't have to become dolls and a cut on their face should never be the end of their usefulness in life.
 

Well indeed.  While I can understand concern of parents, of both boys and girls, for their children not to get injured in the dohyo, cuts and scrapes are essentially a normal part of any child growing up who isn't permanently rolled in bubble wrap.  Any kid doing sports, whether among only girls, only boys, or mixed, can end up with an injury and I do empathise with parents who might have reservations about putting a child in a situation that is more likely to 'attract' injury.  That said, all of the worst injuries I've suffered in life have arisen in perfectly ordinary non-sport circumstances: broke my ankle falling down some stairs at a train station, required stitches following a cut on some broken crockery and, when I was a kid, was accidentally hit in the face with a bat by my younger sister, acquiring a scar.  We were playing in the garden because, ironically, my mother forbade us from playing in the street with the other kids for fear of, among other things, being injured.  My point is that people have to draw a line somewhere with the degree of acceptable risk in dohyo events.  Perhaps an easier and more valid distinction is that children can compete if they are already members of some sort of sumo or wrestling club at school.  Then at least they are unafraid of taking a tumble and know how to fall.  

I guess I was lucky though - my sister and I were given toys (dolls, toy cars, lego, my little pony, computer games, toy dinosaurs...) without any distinction between them being 'for boys' or 'for girls'.  My dad taught us both of us how to change a plug or a tyre but also how to bake a kickass apple pie.  For him they were both equally worthwhile life skills for being an all-rounded human.  It's not until I've grown up that I realise that we were perhaps unconventional by 1980s standards.  

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Women should be free to mount whatever they want to mount. I'm totally pro-mounting.

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The name of the so called "young gyoji" who made the announcement of "women leave!" is still not reported in the news, though he is not a minor and the reporters should have no problems to know it. From the facts in this tabloid article, Kimura Masatoshi is the one. Entered after middle school, 22years old at the time, from Aichi, and this year turned sandanme gyoji. A person related to the heya (in that case Chiganoura): "He made the announcement not for the first 2 who rushed to help, but after another woman came up. He meant to prevent disorder." "He's feeling down now."

Kimura Masatoshi turned 23 yesterday - heya twitter of an older pic - he's at the jungyo now

DbGicVyVMAUDCh0.jpg:thumbo DbGicVzVAAEDBSd.jpg:thumbo

Edited by Akinomaki
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The mayor of Takarazuka was at the NSK offices today, to hand in a letter of demand for abolishing the tradition to ban women on the doyho.

b_11178343.jpgo  20180419s00005000165000p_thum.jpgo d_11178115.jpgo 20180419s00005000166000p_thum.jpgo AS20180419002394_commL.jpgo

and she gave a press conference on the spot

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Edited by Akinomaki
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A link to Kyodo's article about the above visit, in English.

She met with Shibatayama, the head of PR.  "Mr. Shibatayama said he heard me as a member of the (JSA) board and said they will hold discussions. I hope that this takes us forward and tradition isn't used as an excuse to end talks," Nakagawa said.

Also from the article:  "she proposed changes to existing rules, such as one that prohibits female politicians from honoring winners in the ring."

So, multiple rule changes proposed, but the only one mentioned in the article is the one having to do with politicians.

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4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The mayor of Takarazuka was at the NSK offices today, to hand in a letter of demand for abolishing the tradition to ban women on the doyho.

And then she went to the sports ministry to hand in a request to have them suggest changes to the NSK

201804190000505-w200_1.jpgo origin_1.jpgo

NHK news page with video: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180419/k10011410171000.html

 

On the same day, the mayor of Otsu, where the summer jungyo is planned in July, told the jungyo men on simple PR duty to have changes in the NSK and told the press that she'll refuse to make the address speech from below the dohyo.

  20180419211631koshi450.jpgo

NHK local news page with video: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/kansai-news/20180419/4082531.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

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2 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

Sure. But wouldn't it be cool if a male mayor then send his female vice mayor for these duties…  Take that, NSK! ;-) 

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18 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

The Kyokai might not have to plan for it; the local people who promote these events may well stop asking for jungyo to come to their towns - some as a show of support for their female mayors, some because they don't want the embarrassment.

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43 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:
19 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I fear that the NSK will try to plan future jungyo visits exclusively to places with male mayors...

The Kyokai might not have to plan for it; the local people who promote these events may well stop asking for jungyo to come to their towns - some as a show of support for their female mayors, some because they don't want the embarrassment.

There are two parties in making a jungyo stopover happen -- the NSK and the local government. Can the NSK ignore a town that insists on a jungyo stopover? Can the NSK impose a stopover in a town? Both parties have to sign the contract.

I am just not sure how much one party in the negotiations can pressure the other.
The NSK could argue that a female politician mounting the dohyo would enrage the crowd so much that it might become an unruly mob creating unsafe situations. In that case, how do the officials of a town prove that the crowd won't become a mob?
The abolishment of the ban is like any tradition-breaking civil rights campaign: you need heroes willing to make a point, and you'll get violent opposition from those who already have those rights. When a stage for a confrontation is set, people from outside town will be attracted, including those intent to disturb proceedings that would have been peaceful without them.

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The mayor of Takarazuka keeps the campaign to get rid of the ban running. Another interview today: she contacted female mayors from cities all over Japan and asks them to have a nationwide dispute about it and put pressure on the NSK NHK local news page with video

origin_1.jpgo

the mayor of Otsu had started with it yesterday

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after the visit to the kokugikan yesterday

20180419-OHT1I50161-N.jpgo AS20180419002393_commL.jpgo 201804190000505-w200_0.jpgo

ANN news video from the actions of the 2 mayors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU969Er65us

Edited by Akinomaki
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16 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The mayor of Takarazuka keeps the campaign to get rid of the ban running. Another interview today: she contacted female mayors from cities all over Japan and asks them to have a nationwide dispute about it and put pressure on the NSK

She contacted the other 19 mayors and heads of special city wards (now  Adachi-ku). https://uub.jp/cpf/female.html

Those of Mitaka and Amagasaki have endorsed the campaign. They want to ask for the cooperation of monka-sho Hayashi, as the top supervisor of the NSK.

http://mainichi.jp/articles/20180421/ddl/k28/050/324000c

Edited by Akinomaki
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At a special riji-kai on the 28th, the tradition of banning women from the dohyo will be discussed, including the NSK's external officials. That was a demand of the mayor of Takarazuka and PR top Shibatayama had promised to enter a dispute about it, but: "I don't know if we can reach a prompt decision." http://mainichi.jp//mainichi.jp/articles/20180424/k00/00m/050/040000c

201804230000510-w200_0.jpgo

The mayor of Maizuru, who was the cause for all this, can talk now, but still needs rest. He was moved from the ICU to an ordinary sickbed on the 20th. It is expected that he can resume his duties during the first 10 days of May. http://www3.nhk.or.jp/lnews/kyoto/2014093161.html

It may take longer though, no visits allowed yet. 2 weeks or more in the ICU points to a severe case of SAH. http://mainichi.jp/articles/20180424/ddl/k26/050/459000c

Edited by Akinomaki
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The Kyokai is still dragging its feet concerning the women on the dohyo issue.They met yesterday and discussed this for over an hour. "In cases of emergency, women will be allowed on the dohyo," said the rijicho. As for women mounting the dohyo to give speeches- "We need more time  to discuss this." So essentially, nothing new. 
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2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:
The Kyokai is still dragging its feet concerning the women on the dohyo issue.They met yesterday and discussed this for over an hour. "In cases of emergency, women will be allowed on the dohyo," said the rijicho. As for women mounting the dohyo to give speeches- "We need more time  to discuss this." So essentially, nothing new. 

No jungyo tour after the May basho, maybe they're hoping it'll all be off the headlines by August when they're back on the road. (Does Japan go on legislative break during the summer like other countries' governments do?)

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6 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

No jungyo tour after the May basho, maybe they're hoping it'll all be off the headlines by August when they're back on the road. (Does Japan go on legislative break during the summer like other countries' governments do?)

And regarding girls, they will review it in August. The thing is, I don't think this whole affair is going to die down this time, although I do think the end result will be no change.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I don't know. I agree that this issue is unlikely to give way this time. But of the scandals plaguing the kyokai at the moment, it's going to be far easier for them to ease restrictions on women touching the dohyo, than, say, undertaking the organizational and cultural changes necessary to stamp out violent abuse within heyas. So if they give ground on this issue, make limited allowances for women or girls, etc. etc. they can say, "Look, we're being progressive!" while simultaneously being able to shuffle "Don't beat rikishi to death" to the bottom of their to-do list. 

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

And regarding girls, they will review it in August. The thing is, I don't think this whole affair is going to die down this time, although I do think the end result will be no change.

Eventually they will have to give up the  "no girls" thing , even if it is tradition. Might as well get it over with now.

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32 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

(Lengthy) official Kyokai statement about the incident in Maizuru, women on the dohyo in general, and girls participating in children sumo: http://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=268

It's the long version of what I wrote yesterday. 

1. No question  that women are allowed  on the dohyo in time of emergency-the young gyoji got it wrong.

2. Women have not been allowed on the dohyo, not because they are impure, but because it's where men go out and endanger their lives daily etc. Every now and then this problem arises, we need more time to see what can be done etc.

3. Girls training with the sekitori during jungyo suspended because of the danger of getting injured: 2 complaints were lodged by parents whose boys were injured during the Haru jungyo, causing the kids' sumo to be suspended altogether till they find a better way to do it without risk of injury.

Edited by Kintamayama
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10 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

It's the long version of what I wrote yesterday.

Sure, I just figured somebody might be interested in the whole ball of wax.

Hakkaku et al. have put a lot of effort into section 2, referencing public statements from as far back as 1978 to disavow the "impurity" notion.

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