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Yubinhaad

Sansho for 2018 Hatsu

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Shukun-sho: Tochinoshin (1st)

Kanto-sho: Ryuden (1st)

Kanto-sho: Abi (1st, must win final bout)

Gino-sho: Tochinoshin (2nd)

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I agree 100% with these choices. Although Abi has had a more difficult schedule than Ryuden.

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Me too but I would have given Tochinoshin all 3 and I would have given Ichinojo and Endo one if they win today. I like giving prizes.

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13 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

I agree 100% with these choices. Although Abi has had a more difficult schedule than Ryuden.

Wasn't it Abi who boasted he would "win all three sancho" and got schooled by his oyakata?

 

 

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Endo was considered for shukun-sho if he were to beat Tochinoshin on day 15, and Ryuden was also considered for gino-sho, but they did not get the votes.

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Good to see sanity prevailed, Endo would have been nuts as a sansho contender here. 9-6/10-5 from a guy who's been hanging around the joi forever is nothing special, the kinboshi got devalued when Kakuryu lost so many other bouts, and awarding him a prize for possibly winning a dead match is just insane even as a suggestion.

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7 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Good to see sanity prevailed, Endo would have been nuts as a sansho contender here. 9-6/10-5 from a guy who's been hanging around the joi forever is nothing special, the kinboshi got devalued when Kakuryu lost so many other bouts, and awarding him a prize for possibly winning a dead match is just insane even as a suggestion.

Assuming he's at/above M4 on the next banzuke, let's see if Endo will get his first ever KK from those heights at Haru (currently 0 for 9 attempts).

Let's see if I've also reverse jinxed him into finally doing it. :-)

Edited by Fukurou

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7 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Good to see sanity prevailed, Endo would have been nuts as a sansho contender here. 9-6/10-5 from a guy who's been hanging around the joi forever is nothing special, the kinboshi got devalued when Kakuryu lost so many other bouts, and awarding him a prize for possibly winning a dead match is just insane even as a suggestion.

I agree with this assessment, but I thought that he would have the shukun-sho all wrapped up by beating the only finishing Yokozuna and the tournament champion as well.

Edited by Gurowake

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I would have maybe  given Ichinojō something but otherwise these choices look pretty sensible. 

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8 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I agree with this assessment, but I thought that he would have the shukun-sho all wrapped up by beating the only finishing Yokozuna and the tournament champion as well.

I wonder if the tournament champion being a maegashira counted against him? 

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10 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I would have maybe  given Ichinojō something but otherwise these choices look pretty sensible. 

Ichinojo texted me that he's thankful for your offer and he'd like to have a family sized pizza tonno e salame.

Seriously though, a 10-5 just doesn't cut it for someone who already made an impression in the past. 11 or 12, then we talk.

 

[I know there are no fixed rules, Aminishiki blahblah...]

Edited by yorikiried by fate

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12 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Ichinojo texted me that he's thankful for your offer and he'd like to have a family sized pizza tonno e salame.

Seriously though, a 10-5 just doesn't cut it for someone who already made an impression in the past. 11 or 12, then we talk.

 

[I know there are no fixed rules, Aminishiki blahblah...]

Yeah I just thought he did really good sumo this tournament. He doesn’t really qualify by the numbers, as you say. 

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3 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Yeah I just thought he did really good sumo this tournament. He doesn’t really qualify by the numbers, as you say. 

Wrong shape to his results, too. Only 4-4 until he was finished with the Y/O/S, then padded out the win-loss record against the minnows of the joi during week two. Too late to make a real impression on the basho.

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An aside in a Sports Hochi article mentions that Ryuden's kanto-sho had the support of 25 of the 28 voters present. Anyone seen further information out there, by chance?

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5 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

An aside in a Sports Hochi article mentions that Ryuden's kanto-sho had the support of 25 of the 28 voters present. Anyone seen further information out there, by chance?

Several of the recent media darlings have fizzled.  It looks like it is Ryuden's turn to be the next pretty boy for a few basho.

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On ‎28‎. ‎1‎. ‎2018 at 05:41, Yamanashi said:

Wasn't it Abi who boasted he would "win all three sancho" and got schooled by his oyakata?

 

 

And it was him who did a henka derby, so Ryuden was definitely more deserving, schedule regardless

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On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 18:24, Asashosakari said:

An aside in a Sports Hochi article mentions that Ryuden's kanto-sho had the support of 25 of the 28 voters present. Anyone seen further information out there, by chance?


Bit late, but I just found this Daily Sports article which gives the following numbers:

Shukun-sho: Tochinoshin, 28 votes. Awarded.

Kanto-sho: Ryuden, 25 votes. Awarded.

Kanto-sho: Abi, 23 votes, conditional on winning final bout. Awarded.

Gino-sho: Tochinoshin, 27 votes. Awarded.


Shukun-sho: Endo, 10 votes, not awarded.

 

I was of the opinion that the sansho articles in the press largely parroted each other, the same general information with minor variations here and there. I'll have to try and pay more attention from now on, in case more detailed results show up somewhere like this.

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On 1/28/2018 at 06:00, Fukurou said:

Assuming he's at/above M4 on the next banzuke, let's see if Endo will get his first ever KK from those heights at Haru (currently 0 for 9 attempts).

Let's see if I've also reverse jinxed him into finally doing it. :-)

I can imagine how good he could have been if his torn ACL was repaired properly by surgery instead of having it heal on its own,  thereby leaving it weakened. An Endo with two strong knees might actually have met the expectations of those who at one time were predicting him to be much more than someone who is striving to finally get KK from a high maegashira rank. 

Edited by sekitori

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Takarafuji impressed me mightily in Hatsu. He comes to fight every day. His bouts are always exciting and have the potential to go long. I am now a fan, and look forward to seeing him succeed. Fighting spirit indeed.

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2 hours ago, since_94 said:

Takarafuji impressed me mightily in Hatsu. He comes to fight every day. His bouts are always exciting and have the potential to go long. I am now a fan, and look forward to seeing him succeed. Fighting spirit indeed.

He is a great entertainer and while I'd like to see him collect recognition of that with a fighting spirit prize sometime, I wish he'd just win quick a bit more.  Remember that immortal bout with Hakuho last November when, literally faced with Hakuho's back, he TWICE tried to grab him rather than just throw himself on / at him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-uYMfRwypA

 

 

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I'd forgotten that one. Jason's comment sums it up: "How could you not win that?!"

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30 minutes ago, since_94 said:

I'd forgotten that one. Jason's comment sums it up: "How could you not win that?!"

Easy, it's why Tochinoshin has a miserable record against Yokozuna. The Yokozuna intimidation factor. Takarafuji , when he has Hakuho in a vulnerable position can't believe beating Hakuho could be this easy and hesitates allowing Hakuho to recover. This is also why some rikishi, like Yoshikaze, can do much better against them. He just doesn't give a crap. A Kotoyuki or a Takakeisho can be similar. I'm not saying anyone would have a winning lifetime record against an Ozeki/Yokozuna just by conquering their nerves. There is a reason a rikishi rises to such a level as Y/O, they are better. But losing 50 times out of 52 to a Yokozuna  as Tochinoshin has is not just about a difference in ability or talent.  Yoshikaze has won 15 out of 49 and he is by most measures less gifted than a Tochinoshin. 

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Intimidation could be part of it, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't for at last some rikishi. Tochinoshin is also very one-dimensional and has a style that plays right into the greater yotsu skills of the Mongolian yokozuna, and at least in Kak's case doesn't exploit his weakness of pulling at the wrong time. Basically they can disarm his power, and without it he doesn't have much to fall back on at that level. He has a much better record vs Kise, who I think has less polished belt skills than the other two yokozuna and relies more on his strength, which isn't so much greater than Tochinoshin's that he can own him like Hak and Kak do.

Now a guy like Takarafuji doesn't really look 'impressive', but there's clearly something a bit tricky about him off the belt, and it's relatively common for him to draw mistakes from opponents and get behind them. I think it was mentioned that he even won 3 straight matches recently by okuridashi. A berserker like Yoshikaze I think also has an approach that is well suited to drawing overreactions and exploiting pulling, even vs the very best rikishi. I'd agree that Yoshikaze doesn't seem intimidated and stands out as a fearless rikishi.

With Tochinoshin's previous strategies vs the Mongolian yokozuna so obviously ineffective, I've thought he should try to beat them using thrusting, which he's not bad at despite his grab you lift you out style. Kakryu especially can be prone to losses by pulling and we've even seen a belt guy like Endo push him out multiple times. Hak, although much tougher than Kak, is more likely off the belt than on the belt to get overexcited and err.

Now one head-to-head I've had a greater problem understanding is Geek vs Tochinoshin. Tochinoshin has won 2 of the last 3, but it was 4-23 before that! Tochinoshin has actually done fairly well vs other ozeki, including ozeki Kisenosato, but Geek had him. While Kotoshogiku can be very explosive at times, to my eye it seemed he lacked the technical skill to negate Tochinoshin's strength to the extreme degree that he did.

 

 

too long didn't read: one-dimensional, other rikishi are 'trickier', should try thrusting, what's' with the Geek?

Edited by Katooshu
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1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

too long didn't read: one-dimensional, other rikishi are 'trickier', should try thrusting, what's' with the Geek?

Love the summary Katooshu! Indeed, there are times when looooong drawn out posts make you wish the poster'd get to the point, but during this in-between-bashos-time I don't mind.

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