Rainoyama 1,157 Posted January 26, 2018 I'm new to the forum and it's my first post so I hope I'm posting this in the right section and that it's not an already existing topic... Since last year, Yokuzuna Harumafuji retired, Ozeki Kisenosato was promoted to Yokozuna but is struggling and put his career on the line, Ozeki Kotoshogiku lost his rank, Ozeki Terunofuji too, Takayasu was the next Ozeki after all and young guys are banging on the door. I know sumo is really hard to predict especially so far in the future, but I thought it'd be fun to give a try and imagine what a banzuke from the decade of 2020 looks like. I picked this date because Hakuhou said he wants to be there until the olympics, let's assumed he is retired: who do you think is Yokozuna, who's Ozeki, who is regular sanyaku and jou- i and who is middle to low rank ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lackmaker 434 Posted January 26, 2018 Aminishiki m10-m15 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PawnSums 59 Posted January 26, 2018 oh, this sounds fun. Yokozuna: Mitakeumi (5Y Promoted 2019) Goeido (2Y Promoted 2018) Kisenosato (4Y Promoted 2017) Ozeki: Onosho, Takayasu, Tochinoshin, Takakeisho Sanyaku: Mitoryu, Shodai, Ichinojo, Hokutofuji, Endo Joi Regular: Hattorizakura, Sawanofuji, Enho, Abi, Ryuden, Ura, Kagayaki, Ishiura Lower Maegashira: Gagamaru, Kinjo, Shohozan, Terunofuji, Kotoeko, Hokaho, Shonannoumi. There would be more, i'm not naming them. 2030 Is the one to see however. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainoyama 1,157 Posted January 26, 2018 2 hours ago, PawnSums said: oh, this sounds fun. Yokozuna: Mitakeumi (5Y Promoted 2019) Goeido (2Y Promoted 2018) Kisenosato (4Y Promoted 2017) Ozeki: Onosho, Takayasu, Tochinoshin, Takakeisho Sanyaku: Mitoryu, Shodai, Ichinojo, Hokutofuji, Endo Joi Regular: Hattorizakura, Sawanofuji, Enho, Abi, Ryuden, Ura, Kagayaki, Ishiura Lower Maegashira: Gagamaru, Kinjo, Shohozan, Terunofuji, Kotoeko, Hokaho, Shonannoumi. There would be more, i'm not naming them. 2030 Is the one to see however. Very interesting ! And some really bold choices I like it ! I would really like to see Kisenosato still around by this time, I really hope he can come back from whatever is wrong with him, we should know more about his future by the end of the year I think. For Goeido Yokozuna this year wow ! Really ? this one is hard to believe to me, he is yet to get his kachi koshi this basho and has always been so unconsistent, I actually think he is gonna lose his ozeki rank by them, I guess we'll see who's right aha ! Tochinoshin is a beast and Ozeki material but his knees are an issue and it won't improve with time. I agree with you that Mitakeumi can make it to yokozuna, and I agree that Onosho have a very bright future, like you I think he can be ozeki by then. To me I see Mitakeumi as sole Yokozuna, Takayasu, Onosho, Shodai, Hokutofuji and Ichinojo Ozekis and no one really winning two consecutive bashos to be promoted. Sanyaku/ Jou-i pool : Takakeisho, Asanoyama, Kagayaki, Abi, Ryuden, Daiesho, Mitoryu, Endo, Takagenji... Middle-ranks : Chiyomaru, Chiyonokuni, Chiyoshoma, Yutakayama, Takarafuji, Daiamami, Yago, Ura, Enho... Lower-ranks: Old Kaisei B, Daishomaru, Ishiura, Kotoyuki, Nishikigi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burajirotono 99 Posted January 26, 2018 My little cousin Nino for now have just 25 kgs but i'm teaching him some techniques and i definitely thinks he´s Yokozuna material! 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawabata 270 Posted January 26, 2018 5 hours ago, PawnSums said: Joi Regular: Hattorizakura, Sawanofuji, Enho, Abi, Ryuden, Ura, Kagayaki, Ishiura Lower Maegashira: Gagamaru, Kinjo, Shohozan, Terunofuji, Kotoeko, Hokaho, Shonannoumi. Hattorizakura will almost certainly be outperforming Terunofuji by then at this rate 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yukiarashi 195 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I'm glad someone started a topic like this! I too like envisioning the future banzukes and rankings even if it's hard. Yokozunas-Hakuho 46 Yushos, Takayasu 1 Yusho, Goeido 3 Yushos Hakuho still hanging around, but only winning 3 a year then. Takayasu progresses to Yokozuna later rather than sooner. Goeido gets his crap together and zenshos twice in a row eventually to become a disappointing Yokozuna. Ozekis-Mitakeumi 1 Yusho, Tochinoshin 1 Yusho, Ichinojo Mitakeumi wins one soon. He is able to capture his day 1-7 self from this basho and runner-up in Haru and win in Natsu. Where he becomes the most consistent Ozeki. Tochinoshin translates his soon to be Yusho (I hope) this time and starts a late career Takayasu like surge taking advantage of attrition at the top. Ichinojo replaces Terunofuji as the new Mongolian force, but is terribly inconsistent in much the same way frequently kyujoing. Sekiwake-Hokutofuji, Endo, Takakeisho Three Sekiwake in this random future Banzuke. Hokutofuji becomes a consistent Sekiwake and is close to a break out towards Ozeki, Endo finally realizes his potential and is a consistent lower Sanyaku threat. Takakeisho continues his inconsistent ways and gets a third Sekiwake spot for some outrageous record in joi only to fall out again with an atrocious basho. Komusubi-Chiyotairyu, Ryuden Chiyotairyu continues to improve and is mostly over his inconsistencies, Ryuden becomes a lower Sanyaku-joi force, like a new before this basho Tochinoshin without constant injuries. Makuuchi-joi M1, Enho, Ura Two little guys here. Enho becomes the new Ura, Ura becomes the new Enho after recovering. Both are extremely inconsistent. M2, Onosho, Mitoryu Onosho has some occasional injuries and bounces between joi and lower sanyaku. Mitoryu has looked unimpressive so far to me, but I think he progresses well over the next two years M3, Chiyonokuni, Tamawashi Chiyonokuni becomes sort of a new Yoshikaze in joi. Not so much for upsets but for fighting style. Tamawashi now 35 doesn't decline too much. M4, Shodai, Yoshikaze 1 Yusho Shodai becomes a Sanyaku regular but gets injured and wins the Yusho in this future tournament from a rank too low for him. Yoshikaze, now 38 slight decline. M5, Abi, Kagayaki Abi is another who bounces in an out of junior sanyaku, Kagayaki becomes a Takarafuji level rikishi. The rest M6, Kyokutaisei, Chiyonoo-Kyokutaisei becomes a current Kagayaki level rikishi. Chiyonoo someone random that does well in lower Makuuchi ranked high for this basho. M7, Arawashi, Daieisho-Arawashi still floating around, Daieisho improves but inconsistent. M8, Asanoyama, Wakatakakage-Asanoyama inconsistent, Wakatakakage up and down new guy M9, Tomokaze, some college champion-Tomokaze becomes a new guy in Makuuchi with a bright future, Some college champion is a college champion starting soon. M10, Chiyoshoma, Chiyomaru-Both these two are ranked too low for their abilities in this basho but both have improved significantly. Chiyoshoma was in Sanyaku but had an injury or something. M11, Ishiura, Daiamami M12, Naya, Takayoshitoshi M13, Some future TD Mongolian guy, Yago M14, Meisei, Daishomaru M15, Takanosho, Shohozan M16, Tobizaru Others, Kakuryu, Kisenosato, Kotoshogiku, Terunofuji, Aminishiki, Sokokurai, Takekaze, Kyokushuho, Tokushoryu, Gagamaru, among others Intai. Current Makuuchi not on list in Juryo. Takagenji, Tsurugisho, Daishoho yoyos Takanoiwa in Makushita from something. Edited January 27, 2018 by Yukiarashi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yukiarashi 195 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Sorry just noticed you said after Hakuho retired. This is my January 2020 Banzuke I guess with adjusted Yusho totals. I can't imagine farther than that. He'll probably stick around for a bit longer after the Olympics but he's gonna be done in the foreseeable future. And welcome to the forum! Edited January 27, 2018 by Yukiarashi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ack! 445 Posted January 27, 2018 The day Goeido makes yokozuna, I'll eat my hat. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yukiarashi 195 Posted January 27, 2018 I just realized I actually predicted that... I'll stand by it though. It would be in the most Goeido way possible 9-6, 1-5-9, 8-7, 15-0, 15-0, Yokozuna, 9-6, 2-4-9, 9-6, 12-3-Y, 7-8. Forum members would refer to him as the Nokozuna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flohru 176 Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Yukiarashi said: I just realized I actually predicted that... I'll stand by it though. It would be in the most Goeido way possible 9-6, 1-5-9, 8-7, 15-0, 15-0, Yokozuna, 9-6, 2-4-9, 9-6, 12-3-Y, 7-8. Forum members would refer to him as the Nokozuna Why would they? With that 5 basho record as yokozuna (39 wins) he would completely crush the number of wins by current yokozunae Kisenosato and Kakuryu taken together in their last 5 basho (26)! ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainoyama 1,157 Posted January 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Yukiarashi said: Sorry just noticed you said after Hakuho retired. This is my January 2020 Banzuke I guess with adjusted Yusho totals. I can't imagine farther than that. He'll probably stick around for a bit longer after the Olympics but he's gonna be done in the foreseeable future. And welcome to the forum! 4 hours ago, Ack! said: The day Goeido makes yokozuna, I'll eat my hat. 59 minutes ago, Flohru said: Why would they? With that 5 basho record as yokozuna (39 wins) he would completely crush the number of wins by current yokozunae Kisenosato and Kakuryu taken together in their last 5 basho (26)! ;) Thank you all so much for answering, aha as always Goeido is so hard to predict and dividing people ! I'm curious to see if he can finally step up. He did clinch his kk today and may well beat Kakuryu tomorow at this rate but he's gonna get older and I agree with Ack! , I think he is too unconsitent to ever become Yokozuna even with some of the current top guys retired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maorencze 144 Posted January 27, 2018 Banzuke cca 2022-23 (Hakuho out around mid-2021 after competing only in 2.5 basho out of last 6 winning only one of them, and in total just 3-5 more yusho (and maybe 2-3 jun-yusho) since 2017) Y: Takayasu, Mitakeumi O: Hokutofuji, Takakeisho Sanyaku regulars: Ichinojo (back prevent him to do more, but he has found his mojo), Tochinoshin (Ozeki tenure lasted about 10-15 basho only, still good enough), Shodai, Ryuden (guy got real sumo body and steady, basics-oriented sumo), Onosho (I just don't see him as strong enough and consistent enough to do more, but still - this is a plenty) Joi-jin regulars: Goeido (old, but finally found his field, and his health never really betrayed him), Enho (great talent on the fast rise up), Endo, Ura, Yago, Chiyotairyu, Naya, Hoshoryu/Byambasuren (not quite there with Enho yet but their time is coming), Kagayaki (changed his game with changing of guard in Makuuchi and finally got there, but not any farther), Takagenji (hate this f*cker but he belongs) Mid-Maegashira: Mitoryu, Abi (not convinced, don't like his style), Asanoyama, Daieisho (never got to next level, dont see him doing it), Daishomaru, Chiyomaru (profiting from weakened old guard and not-yet-there new guard), Chiyoshoma (most consistent Mid-Maegashira guy of all, but nothing more), Chiyonokuni (better than -maru and -shoma, but not healthy enough), Takanosho, Fringe guys: Ishiura, Torakio, Wakaichiro (their time is coming as well), Yutakayama, Daiamami, Nishikigi, Meisei, Chiyonoo, Terutsuyoshi (too small to be more, like Ishiura) Other young guys I don't dare guess but I suppose almost everyone older than 1990 is out 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yukiarashi 195 Posted January 27, 2018 I could see someone like Mitakeumi/Hokutofuji becoming another Kisenosato eventually making Yokozuna but very late in his career. Takakeisho I think will eventually progress to a new Chiyotaikai at Ozeki but right now he's getting beat a lot. 2021-Yokozunas Hakuho (last basho), Takayasu, Goeido (last basho), Ozekis Mitakeumi, Ichinojo, Hokutofuji. Sekiwake Endo, Tochinoshin, Shodai 2022-Yokozunas Takayasu, Mitakeumi Ozekis, Hokutofuji, Onosho, Takakeisho, Sekiwakes, Some college champion, Mitoryu 2023-Y-Takayasu, Mitakeumi, Hokutofuji-O-Onosho, Takakeisho, SCC, S-Naya, Wakatakakage 2024-Y-Mitakeumi, Hokutofuji-O-Onosho, Takakeisho, Naya, SCC, S-Hoshoryu, Tomokaze 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PawnSums 59 Posted January 27, 2018 but what about hattorizakura? he'll have to become yokozuna somehow. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yukiarashi 195 Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, PawnSums said: but what about hattorizakura? he'll have to become yokozuna somehow. He's at Yokozuna 0 East, above ranking. Putting his name on a simple banzuke is considered disrespectful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,776 Posted January 28, 2018 Commentary to my Banzuke: Among the intai: all current Yokozuna, Yoshikaze, Okinoumi, Shohozan, Terunofuji, Sokokurai, Takakaze, Kotoshogiku, Kaisei, Aminishiki, Aoiyama, Homarefuji, Toyohibiki, Tochiryu, Kizenryu, Tokoshoryu. Intai and in Pro Wrestling of some sort: Osunaarashi, Gagamaru, Takanoiwa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PawnSums 59 Posted January 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Yamanashi said: How did you make that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,776 Posted January 28, 2018 I made it in Excel; cut and paste. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PawnSums 59 Posted January 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Yamanashi said: I made it in Excel; cut and paste. i'm probably an idiot, but you'll have to pm me on how to make it. (i cant find cut and paste.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,776 Posted January 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, PawnSums said: i'm probably an idiot, but you'll have to pm me on how to make it. (i cant find cut and paste.) I entered the data into Excel; formatted the columns so it looked nice; clicked and dragged to select what I wanted to copy; copied (control-C); switched to the Forum window; hit "Quote" on your entry; clicked in the window; pasted (control-V). Voila. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainoyama 1,157 Posted January 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Yukiarashi said: I could see someone like Mitakeumi/Hokutofuji becoming another Kisenosato eventually making Yokozuna but very late in his career. Takakeisho I think will eventually progress to a new Chiyotaikai at Ozeki but right now he's getting beat a lot. 2021-Yokozunas Hakuho (last basho), Takayasu, Goeido (last basho), Ozekis Mitakeumi, Ichinojo, Hokutofuji. Sekiwake Endo, Tochinoshin, Shodai 2022-Yokozunas Takayasu, Mitakeumi Ozekis, Hokutofuji, Onosho, Takakeisho, Sekiwakes, Some college champion, Mitoryu 2023-Y-Takayasu, Mitakeumi, Hokutofuji-O-Onosho, Takakeisho, SCC, S-Naya, Wakatakakage 2024-Y-Mitakeumi, Hokutofuji-O-Onosho, Takakeisho, Naya, SCC, S-Hoshoryu, Tomokaze I really do agree with a lot of these predictions and it seems believable to me ! thank you so much for your answer 11 hours ago, Yamanashi said: Wow that is amazing ! It's interesting to see someone who thinks Mitakeumi can't become at least ozeki, what is your take on him I'm curious ? To me he is better than Hokutofuji so far although I like both. Hokutofuji was not healthy this basho and got destroyed and Mitakeumi barely got his kk after 7 consecutive wins but still he'll be sekiwake for 5 consecutive bashos next basho and he is still quite young, surely he can start a run when he stops losing bouts he shouldn't lose. With that said an healthy Hokutofuji is really fun to watch and I think he can be at least ozeki. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,776 Posted January 28, 2018 Well, it's all intuition; I've been following this for less than a year, so I have to go by the eye test. Also, this is meant to be a snapshot -- I think most of the guys I have listed between Sekiwake and M3 are cycling up and down the banzuke "like beans on the boil." My intuition says that 1) Mitakeumi might not have that something (gravitas?) to conceive of himself as a Yokozuna; 2) of all the "tadpoles" Onosho and Hokutofuji have the most staying power, but that's just a guess. If you knew what the Injury Akuryo was going to do, you'd look a lot smarter when it happened. Of course, that would involve you with some bad acquaintances. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gijo 27 Posted January 29, 2018 I just know that Abi will be Ozeki by that time... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
