Rocks

Basho Talk Hatsu 2018 (SPOILERS)

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6 minutes ago, sekitori said:

The object is not to win quickly. It's to just to win. Hakuho never seems to be in a rush. If he can't gain an immediate advantage, he just stays in control until he does. The fact that it may take a while for him to do so doesn't prove that his skills are diminishing or that his opponent is really as impressive as he might seem.

The scariest moment in Sumo right now must be when you're leaning against Hakuho for 20 seconds, and instead of thinking what you are going to try, you're thinking what he is going to try.  He's got you psyched out, because he's won in this situation hundreds of other times.

The next rikishi with the confidence to think "here's what I'm going to do" will be the next Yokozuna.

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19 minutes ago, sekitori said:

The object is not to win quickly. It's to just to win. Hakuho never seems to be in a rush. If he can't gain an immediate advantage, he just stays in control until he does. The fact that it may take a while for him to do so doesn't prove that his skills are diminishing or that his opponent is really as impressive as he might seem.

Ichinojo's main asset is being very large while having no technique to speak of. Unless his technique improves significantly (and chances of that happening are slim to none), his "ability" to lean on Hakuho or anyone else for a long time won't get him very far.

I think the primary result of Hakuho's technique being restricted will be that he'll only win two or three yushos this year.  :-)

 

I agree with that. It's probably an overreaction with how Onosho drove him back yesterday, but he knew what he was doing with both of them. Usually when he tries throwing large opponets down like Aoiyama, Kaisei, ecspecially Kotoshogiku it's worked. That's what seemed strange was when he tried this as a "winning throw" midbout Ichinojo withstood it. But he's had lots of bouts like this where he's in control and doesn't worry about how long it takes. I guess for me coming into sumo around 2008-2010 it's still somewhat surprising seeing anyone go longer than a few seconds with him:-). I do think Ichinojo has gotten better but he's not really winning bouts as much as he's not losing them. I think he'll win three or four yushos this year too, but he "only" won three last year with the elbow being tolerated. 

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I am like, many in this thread it seems, super excited to see what Tochinshin and Kakuryu can do if healthy for this entire Basho.  It also is exciting to see the top 5 guys all seeming to be on top of their game (still some question with Kisenosato, but his win on day 2 was encouraging).  Hopefully as many can stay in the race as possible and we can have some exciting Ozeki / Yokuzuna etc showdowns with meaning.  

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Did anyone count the number of false starts in the Takagenji - Seiro bout?

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Looked to me like Meisei shouldve won that...I think Kyokushuho's arm touched first.

And if to balance out the Tomozuna luck, Kyokutaisei's deemed a loser when Azumaryu's hand was clearly down first :-S

Edited by Katooshu

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The DB is down, but I think Azumaryu is quite good in catching the other guy's fingers in his hair and handing him a hansoku loss, without any actual hair pulling done by him to influence the outcome.

Edited by Akinomaki

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Takakeisho's new sanyaku interview was already recorded before the basho. Maybe that has happened before, but I don't remember having seen any of these NHK new ... interviews yet that would not have the oyakata interviewed in it as well.

Edited by Akinomaki

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13 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Takakeisho's new sanyaku interview was already recorded before the basho. Maybe that has happened before, but I don't remember having seen any of these NHK new ... interviews yet that would not have the oyakata interviewed in it as well.

Considering the situation regarding HIS shisho, NSK could possibly have asked NHK to refrain from interviewing the oyakata.

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10 hours ago, Rocks said:

I post this because this, in the minds of many and especially the YDC, is perfection with regards to Sumo. 2 men, chest to chest, testing their strength and ability. THIS is what they want to see, not once in awhile,  but every match. Every basho. Not just to see their favorites win. Favorites, and their fans, come and go. And Sumo, more than any other sport, values and pursues perfection. Sumo doesn't have it's best face each other if they managed to get into the championship match or a few times a year. They face each other every single time Sumo is contested. Slapping or a henka is not perfection. Yokozuna are named Yokozuna because they are the ones expected to produce perfection  at the highest rate. Failing to meet their opponent chest to chest is a Yokozuna thwarting perfection from the start of the match. Regardless of the legality, it is, barring injury or the tactics of the opponent, unworthy of a Yokozuna and even Ozeki. But at least the Ozeki has the excuse of fear of demotion. A Yokozuna has no such excuse. These are the tactics of those who do not think they can ever be an Ozeki or higher unless they do this. In other words, those that already know they do not have the strength and ability to reach such an exalted rank. 

 

Why does the Sumo Association have something as "moronic" as the YDC? It is one of the best things they ever come up with. Unique to Sumo. It is a body of lay people, not rikishi, who are fans. In most cases probably hard core fans of 30 years or more. Ones who have supported rikishi and heyas to the hilt through thick and thin. They represent the fans, well in my opinion.  In insisting on as much perfection as possible they represent not just the Sumo connoisseur but even the lowliest and poorest fan. The kind of fan who may get to a live match once a year. Or in the case of foreigners maybe once in a lifetime. Those fans, with that once, deserve the greatest chance of seeing not just their favorites, but of seeing Sumo performed at it finest. Regardless of outcome. The Yokozuna, more than any other, has the responsibility to give it to them if he can. The Yokozuna doesn't just go last as a courtesy. He is last because a Yokozuna, with one match, can make those leaving think that, regardless of the quality of Sumo that day, they are leaving having seen something special.

Finally,  a Yokozuna should go chest to chest whenever he can for the rikishi. For those who dream just like the Yokozuna did. Rikishi like Daio Yoshinobu .

Rikishi who go throught the ranks hoping one day to put their chest to a Yokozuna's and show their mettle. Achieve their dreams. Even if they spend 57 basho as a sekitori. They may only ever get one chance, like Daio. A Yokozuna owes them his chest. Not a sidestep. Not a slap.

Which is why, even having won a yusho, you will always see stories like this:

Little-man sumo pays off for Harumafuji.

A yokozuna, as the Big man, is never merely about winning. And I don't think it ever should be.

Sorry, I just politely but completely disagree, for there is so many points in this that seem wrong to me that I don't even know where to start my argument. I shall get back to it later, maybe

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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

The DB is down, but I think Azumaryu is quite good in catching the other guy's fingers in his hair and handing him a hansoku loss, without any actual hair pulling done by him to influence the outcome.

Yes, turns out that was the call, though to me it just looked like a hand pressing down on the head.

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Does the custom that former Ozeki retire when falling out of the top division apply here ?

edit: for Terunofuji

Edited by Gospodin

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5 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Kisenosato down...

Hakuho down...

Kakuryu...

Kakuryu up

Hak and Kise looked bad during thoses losses though :(

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In the last 4 basho Hokutofuji has earned kinboshi vs each of the 3 yokozuna + Harumafuji. He is now tied with Tosanoumi for the all-time lead in most consecutive tournaments with a kinboshi and he has earned kinboshi in all 4 basho he's been eligible (maegashira +faced a yok) :-D

Edited by Katooshu
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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The DB is down, but I think Azumaryu is quite good in catching the other guy's fingers in his hair and handing him a hansoku loss, without any actual hair pulling done by him to influence the outcome.

Much less of it this century in the sekitori ranks than I thought  http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=2000-2018&rowcount=5&kimarite=69&rank1=J,M&onlyw1=on

Apparently the shimpan most of the times didn't make the hansoku call in the many mono-ii I remember talking about hair pulls.

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3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Looked to me like Meisei shouldve won that...I think Kyokushuho's arm touched first.

And if to balance out the Tomozuna luck, Kyokutaisei's deemed a loser when Azumaryu's hand was clearly down first :-S

I think Kyokutaisei was robbed there, but it seemed to happen right in front of the shimpan too, so maybe there was something we couldn't see on the broadcast. It did look pretty clear though, at least to me (someone who is definitely not in the arena or an experienced shimpan)

 

Nice to see Gagamaru and Aoiyama picking up their first wins though

edit: Missed @Akinomaki pointing out the hansoku in the Azumaryu match, oops

Edited by Kawabata

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I find the hansoku call to be very questionble too, though I should probably have another look. It just looked like a hand pressing down on the top of the head to me.

It would be nice to see Kyokutaisei finally reach the top division..

Edited by Katooshu

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19 hours ago, ryafuji said:

There have been two examples of ex-ozeki competing in juryo - Daiju and Miyabiyama - so no reason why Terunofuji couldn’t. But there has never been an ex-ozeki (or indeed, any makuuchi yusho winner) competing in makushita. 

 

3 hours ago, Gospodin said:

Does the custom that former Ozeki retire when falling out of the top division apply here ?

edit: for Terunofuji

I asked the same question, but think it likely got lost in the shuffle with the "combat sport" discussion. Ryafuji helpfully provided the answer above! Sorry for the strange order or quotes, my phone won't seem to let me reorder them. 

I'm definitely with you though Gospodin, it will be interesting to see what transpires. Given his demotion will be the result of an injury, rather than his completing the tournament with a shoddy record, he may be able to justify staying in, and possibly going kyujo next basho as well if it won't drop him out of juryo. 

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Interesting day 3. Kinda strange Kisenosato eschewing the belt and going for the throw against Ichinojo given that strategy almost cost Hakuho a win the day before. 

Hakuho looks a bit slow of the mark but  great win for Hokutofuji. Kakuryu still looks good but Yoshikaze is totally out of it so far this basho. No fire at all.

Goeido, Takayasu and Mitakeumi all look very strong. 

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6 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Takakeisho's new sanyaku interview was already recorded before the basho. Maybe that has happened before, but I don't remember having seen any of these NHK new ... interviews yet that would not have the oyakata interviewed in it as well.

Takanohana was willing to do it but the reporter refused to be seen with anyone wearing a scarf indoors. 

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1 hour ago, Rocks said:

Goeido, Takayasu and Mitakeumi all look very strong. 

I think Tochinoshin is looking pretty good too, though it remains to be seen if he can continue that against the higher ranked guys

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I always thought Hakuhou's tachiai ploys, both the slap 'n' grab and the chest-on-shoulder angle or other HNHs had the goal of avoiding the all-out kaboom tachiai and quickly locking up into yotsu, which is where Hakuhou especially excels. His bouts this basho make me think I was right- and that he's struggling to find a YDC-friendly way to lock into yotsu that doesn't tax his body too much.

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Congratulations to Hokutofuji for collecting the complete set of kinboshi! Guess there was a point to him being kept at M1 after all.

I'm hoping Kakuryuu will keep on winning, because now we've got a real possibility for a real yuushou race at the top.

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2 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Congratulations to Hokutofuji for collecting the complete set of kinboshi!

And also for equaling Tosanoumi's record of getting a kinboshi in four straight tournaments.

 

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A rare club to join, having gotten kinboshi from all the Yokozuna that you have faced. 

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