Kintamayama

Shikimori Inosuke sexual harassment and drink talk..

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Churaumi    101

Worst case is there won’t be any tate-gyoji for a while, until someone is ready for promotion. Sumo has only had one for a while now, and basho have been and will continue to be occurring and worth watching.

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orandashoho    522

So, did the riji-kai touch upon the matter of Shikimori Inosuke's retirement and the tate-gyoji succession at all? Or is this issue dererred till after Natsu basho?

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Yatagarasu    279
24 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

So, did the riji-kai touch upon the matter of Shikimori Inosuke's retirement and the tate-gyoji succession at all? Or is this issue dererred till after Natsu basho?

As far as I recall, they'll wait until he's finished serving his suspension, whereupon they will announce whether they accept his previously tendered resignation.  

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orandashoho    522

That said, the Kyokai is still short of tate-gyojis... mustn't they find a successor before he is retired and off the banzuke?

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Kintamayama    22,327
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, orandashoho said:

That said, the Kyokai is still short of tate-gyojis... mustn't they find a successor before he is retired and off the banzuke?

Nobody seems to be in a hurry. Let's not forget that this is Shikimori Inosuke who is actually the number 2 guy. The number one spot of Kimura Shounosuke, has been vacant for a few years now.. They will probably fix stuff in July when the horny one's suspension officially becomes a retirement.

Edited by Kintamayama
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Churaumi    101

And, they replace Tate-gyoji at a glacial pace. Isn’t it usual for a year or more to go by before they finally appoint one after one retires?

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Asashosakari    10,993
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Churaumi said:

And, they replace Tate-gyoji at a glacial pace. Isn’t it usual for a year or more to go by before they finally appoint one after one retires?

There's no consistent way (see here, grey fields = vacancy periods), but in general I'd say that there's usually direct succession if a suitable candidate is available.

Edit: Incidentally, that table (assuming it's accurate) also answers the preceding question - both positions were unfilled in Hatsu and Haru 1994.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Bumpkin    350
2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

There's no consistent way (see here, grey fields = vacancy periods), but in general I'd say that there's usually direct succession if a suitable candidate is available.

Edit: Incidentally, that table (assuming it's accurate) also answers the preceding question - both positions were unfilled in Hatsu and Haru 1994.

Oh, how I wish that chart were in English.

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Kuroyama    569
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Oh, how I wish that chart were in English.

First columm - 木村庄之助 - Kimura Shonosuke
Second column - 式守伊之助 - Shikimori Inosuke
Third column - 木村玉之助 - Kimura Tamanosuke (tate-gyoji of Osaka sumo with rank retained after the merger)
Fourth column - 備考 - Remarks. This generally shows when there's a promotion from one tate-gyoji position to another. So, for November, 2011 when it says 38代伊之助→36代庄之助  it's informing us that the 38th Shikimori Inosuke became the 36th Kimura Shonosuke. With the following exceptions:

1927 - the 3 tate-gyoji system is instituted due to the east-west merger.
1951 - return to the 2 tate-gyoji system with with the release of Tamanosuke.
1994 - For the first time in history both tate-gyoji ranks were vacant.

Strangely, they're just listing the times during which each successive name holder was at that rank. They don't give their real names, or link to specific articles about them even when they exist. And I know at least a few exist, such as https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/式守伊之助_(19代) (the 19th Shikimori Inosuke, aka the one with the beard) because I had occasion to look him up once.

Edited by Kuroyama
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Asashosakari    10,993
3 hours ago, Kuroyama said:

1951 - return to the 2 tate-gyoji system with with the release of Tamanosuke.

"Release" is probably not the best translation there. They demoted the inherited name (and its then-current holder, Tamanosuke 13) to a newly created position of fuku-tate (deputy chief) gyoji.

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Kuroyama    569
11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

"Release" is probably not the best translation there. They demoted the inherited name (and its then-current holder, Tamanosuke 13) to a newly created position of fuku-tate (deputy chief) gyoji.

"Relegation" or "demotion" would have been better, yes.

I tried making an English-version chart, but couldn't get it to paste in properly. I might to use a different word processor or something.

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orandashoho    522

I liked the Japanese table, so I copied it into my book, getting a little gyoji name kanji writing practice in the process. The meaning of the Japanese text was clear enough from the context, except for the remarks for 1927.1, 1951.5 and 1994. Thanks for the translation!

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