Takanohana-devil's advocate

[Rocks 1,725]

On 2/15/2018 at 16:23, Fukurou said:

Nope. Using Major League Baseball in the US as an example, they hold copyright over everything related to the game broadcasts (as Kintamayama wrote earlier). You can't do anything with their material without their permission. If you go to a game and shoot your own video I think you're ok it's for personal use, otherwise things can get sticky. HERE is a link to MLB's rules on the subject. I'm guessing, since Asahi got caught forging permissions last month, that the NSK holds similar rights.

This is accurate. I think it is also similar to most other sports in the USA but shorter events, like boxing, tend to be stricter. As far as paying, any news org can use highlights of the game freely to report for 36 hours after the broadcast. After that they need permission. The video copyright belongs to MLB, etc. The public can film at games and that belongs to them but it can't "reproduce the game", meaning if it's more than a few minutes in a row it's iffy. During the game itself the broadcast rights belong to whoever is broadcasting the game and you can't even show a second of it even if you recorded it yourself. You can't even describe in detail what is happening as that violates radio broadcast rights. Basically the score and stats are okay, that's it.

This is actually a big subject in chess right now because the company running the World championships is suing to stop anyone from even broadcasting the moves that are made as they say it violates their broadcast rights. It's a load of garbage though as moves are the same as a score. Anyone is free to report that. 

[Kintamayama 40,609]

5 hours ago, rhyen said:

I am sure that Kintayama will devour this slavishly.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/貴の乱-日馬富士暴行事件の真相と日本相撲協会の「権力闘争」-鵜飼-克郎/dp/4800281024/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1518806857&sr=1-2&keywords=相撲

1.  Who is Kintayama?

2. If there is already a whole book about it out, it must be true.

3. I promise to do so slavishly-nothing less will be good enough.

[Benevolance 2,265]

It was ghost written by Kintamayama. The book is a quick round up of the various verbal matches between the parties in digest form, and the fourth chapter is written in different fonts. It's very entertaining! But personally, I'd wait a day and pick up the corrected version of book. 

[Kintamayama 40,609]

The rijikai will discuss how to deal with Takanohana after his two hour TV interview which was held without prior notice or permission. This will happen tomorrow.

[rhyen 1,584]

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180310/k10011359011000.html

Now what has Takanohana done?

[Akinomaki 34,809]

14 minutes ago, rhyen said:

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180310/k10011359011000.html

Now what has Takanohana done?

Taka is asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

[Flyric 89]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Taka is asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

The dude's going rouge!

[Dapeng 231]

This was the rabbit in his hat.

[Kintamayama 40,609]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Taka is asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

Isn't he just asking the government to check if the Kyokai has acted according to the public interest status rules in the Harumafuji case? I admit the Japanese here is way over my head, but I didn't see any request to revoke. All I see is him blaming the kyokai and the Crisis Committee for not holding a neutral investigation into the matter and saying his demotion was illegal and unfair and that the Kyokai is mismanaged and that he wants the government to look into this and see if everything there is being done correctly and within the rules.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Sokkenaiyama 64]

7 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Isn't he just asking the government to check if the Kyokai has acted according to the public interest status rules in the Harumafuji case? I admit the Japanese here is way over my head, but I didn't see any request to revoke. I guess I missed the point here. 

Seconded. My Japanese is still limited, but from what I can decipher, he's asking for a re-examination of the fairness of his demotion and corrective action for the NSK's poor management as a state-sponsored corporation. That's nowhere near anything like demanding the revocation of the NSK's status (which would be ludicrous, even by Takanohana's lofty standards of outlandishness).

@Akinomaki, I understand you don't like the guy, but at least try to maintain an appearance of objectivity.

[Kintamayama 40,609]

With all the fuss about Oosunaarashi we forgot that the rijikai was supposed to deal today with Takanohana's permission-lacking TV interview . The thing is, they didn't discuss it at all and decided to postpone the talk till their next meeting. Takanohana did not show up for the rijikai and has not been in touch with the Kyokai since he lost the elections big time and stated he was "away on business" today and thus cannot participate in the meeting. "Not a good thing that he didn't show up today. I have no idea what 'business' he had," said an irked Hakkaku Rijicho. "I have no idea what the reason for his absence was," added Oguruma Oyakata. "The rijicho had a statement ready regarding Takanohana's case, but he didn't show up.." explained Kasugano PR boss.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Yamanashi 2,919]

1 hour ago, Flyric said:

The dude's going rouge!

No, you're thinking of that "Oyakatas in makeup" thread.  He's actually going rogue.

[Flyric 89]

9 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

No, you're thinking of that "Oyakatas in makeup" thread.  He's actually going rogue.

...so this thread isn't about defending Takanohana's fashion choices? Dang, I must have misread that first post

[Bumpkin 438]

I don't think this will end well for Takanohana. Whatever his motivations may have been regarding the Takanoiwa- Harumafuji incident. He now seems to be deliberately disrespecting Hakkaku and the rijikai. Might he be suspended or even expelled from Ozumo? 

[Akinomaki 34,809]

14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

15 hours ago, rhyen said:

Now what has Takanohana done?

Taka is asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

I answered what Taka has done - not what he has said - and to make it objective:

Taka is implicitly asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

His lawyer today of course denied that: "We are not asking for revocation of the public interest status of the NSK. And we are not aiming for this timing of just before the Haru basho." http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201803090000778.html

He is asking the committee to grant that status for an investigation, denouncing the NSK as not living up to the standards - which may result in a revocation. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2018/03/10/kiji/20180309s00005000448000c.html

 

Don't expect me to translate the whole thing that Taka has produced with his lawyers: http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2018/03/09/0011054655.shtml

I don't translate articles, I give you the essence of what they contain

[Kintamayama 40,609]

27 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

I answered what Taka has done - not what he has said - and to make it objective:

Taka is implicitly asking the government to revoke the public interest status of the NSK.

 

Don't translate the whole thing. Just show me one sentence where Takanohana implicitly asked the government to revoke the public interest status. I read the Daily News article as well. It doesn't say that. I read over 12 articles on this and not one of them was saying anything remotely close  to that. Unless, of course, you are quoting another one of your favorite tabloids.. 

Edit-asking someone to look into the legality of something does not imply in any way that that someone should close or suspend that something..

Edited March 10, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Akinomaki 34,809]

23 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

asking someone to look into the legality of something does not imply in any way that that someone should close or suspend that something..

If you add that he doesn't deserve that status, you are asking for the status to get revoked - if you tell the police about a crime, you are asking for a court penalty

37 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

He is asking the committee to grant that status for an investigation, denouncing the NSK as not living up to the standards - which may result in a revocation. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2018/03/10/kiji/20180309s00005000448000c.html

[Sokkenaiyama 64]

 

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

If you add that he doesn't deserve that status, you are asking for the status to get revoked - if you tell the police about a crime, you are asking for a court penalty

Please, indicate the paragraph where Takanohana says the NSK doesn't deserve state sponsorship.

Again, you don't seem to even try to put any objectivity into your analysis. I read the "whole thing" from daily.co.jp and there's still no trace of putting the legitimacy of the state-sponsored corporation status under question - the only things Takanohana is asking for is a re-evaluation of the impartiality of his demotion and an investigation into the quality of the management of the NSK.

If you were to speculate on Takanohana's endgame, taking over as manager instead of the current bunch is much more in line with his actions so far. Destroying the NSK's state support is definitely something nobody in the sumo world would benefit from. And I personally don't think there's any conceivable way the status could be revoked just based on the recent scandals.

As for the "may result in a revocation" conclusion, that's just a vaguely worded catchphrase of a two-paragraph article to increase clickability - the revocation is mentioned at the bottom as a worst-case scenario (which there is little reason to believe will ever even come into consideration). Still, that didn't stop you from presenting it as Takanohana's clearly-stated ultimate goal.

[maorencze 136]

He failed to report to Kyokai, reported to police directly then lied to Kyokai, then refused to cooperate with Kyokai investigators, making himself unavailable for Kyokai attempts to contact him and hiding Takanoiwa for several weeks when investigators needed to interview the guy. Did this violate some NSK by-laws? I hope it dit.

And also, he was given every chance to get back his status, having his own ichimon with plenty of votes and everything, and now that even his supposed friends and subordinates have implicated to him that he crossed a line and behaved like scum, he runs to mommy essentially, like a five-year-old?

Wow. Just wow.

[Akinomaki 34,809]

1 hour ago, Sokkenaiyama said:

As for the "may result in a revocation" conclusion, that's just a vaguely worded catchphrase of a two-paragraph article to increase clickability - the revocation is mentioned at the bottom as a worst-case scenario (which there is little reason to believe will ever even come into consideration). Still, that didn't stop you from presenting it as Takanohana's clearly-stated ultimate goal.

The "may result in revocation" is from the title of the article that I picked because it pointed out what the action of Taka means - I wrote my statement just after reading the text Taka has produced with his lawyers, there were no article about the implications then. Of course you are free to see that as just an unlikely worst case and not like me as the essence of what Taka has done.

So lets take the conclusion of Taka's text:

This shows that the NSK is not operating properly as a public service corporation, and therefore I'm asking for an on-site investigation by the status granting committee

You are considering the next part of "asking for corrective measures" as unlikely resulting in revocation - for me it is the same pattern as his insisting on police action till Harumafuji was driven out - where he then claimed: "It was not necessary that he retired" (- but I made sure that he had to).

In reality revocation is unlikely, but Taka is doing all necessary to make it happen.

[Sokkenaiyama 64]

His camp stated the opposite. Since you're so good at reading his mind, could you tell me exactly what he would have to gain from state support vanishing?

[Kintamayama 40,609]

6 minutes ago, maorencze said:

He failed to report to Kyokai, reported to police directly then lied to Kyokai, then refused to cooperate with Kyokai investigators, making himself unavailable for Kyokai attempts to contact him and hiding Takanoiwa for several weeks when investigators needed to interview the guy. Did this violate some NSK by-laws? I hope it dit.

And also, he was given every chance to get back his status, having his own ichimon with plenty of votes and everything, and now that even his supposed friends and subordinates have implicated to him that he crossed a line and behaved like scum, he runs to mommy essentially, like a five-year-old?

Wow. Just wow.

OR, there are things we don't know and this is a well orchestrated move by Hakkaku and his lackeys to oust his closest competitor  Takanohana , just like he did to the late Kokonoe.  I'd hold the double wows for now..

[Akinomaki 34,809]

Just now, Sokkenaiyama said:

His camp stated the opposite. Since you're so good at reading his mind, could you tell me exactly what he would have to gain from state support vanishing?

The fact that his lawyers had to state this:

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

"We are not asking for revocation of the public interest status of the NSK. And we are not aiming for this timing of just before the Haru basho." http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201803090000778.html

confirms that this is what people obviously believe he is doing.

Nobody can read that mind - you can only tell what is not in it: respect for rules, respect for others, respect for the truth

I'm not saying that his main intention is to rob the NSK of state support: this is just the logic result of his action. You of course want to see others reasons for his actions, for me all aim to cause damage - and that is what he gains from it.

I take the title of this thread literally - and I prefer to accuse - he has more than enough advocates in Japan

[Sokkenaiyama 64]

5 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

I'm not saying that his main intention is to rob the NSK of state support: this is just the logic result of his action. You of course want to see others reasons for his actions, for me all aim to cause damage - and that is what he gains from it.

I take the title of this thread literally - and I prefer to accuse - he has more than enough advocates in Japan

I guess your mind is made up, then. No point in continuing to argue logically.

 

9 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The fact that his lawyers had to state this:

confirms that this is what people obviously believe he is doing.

Yes, of course there are some people who believe he is out to destroy the universe (yourself included), and of course his lawyer would have to reply to those accusations with a firm "No" when asked about it, but that doesn't prove a damn thing.

[Akinomaki 34,809]

1 hour ago, Sokkenaiyama said:

I guess your mind is made up, then. No point in continuing to argue logically.

Yes, of course there are some people who believe he is out to destroy the universe (yourself included), and of course his lawyer would have to reply to those accusations with a firm "No" when asked about it, but that doesn't prove a damn thing.

To believe that there are people who believe he is out to destroy the universe is an excellent way to argue and show your logic

Edited March 10, 2018 by Akinomaki