Kintamayama

Harumafuji scandal thread- part 2

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Rocks    886

What I would like to know is what happened to the karaoke remote? 

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Asashosakari    11,031
40 minutes ago, Rocks said:

What I would like to know is what happened to the karaoke remote? 

It's been locked up in Sing Sing.

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Kintamayama    22,373
1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

The medical certificate for Takanoiwa - it's amazing how a creative oyakata by mind power alone can make a rikishi declared fit into a wreck that can't do sumo for many months

3 months no impact to the head - doctor comment: "I think it would be difficult for him to go to work in January"

So now, the hospital, the doctors, everyone is in on this conspiracy and are all under the power of the Evil Takanohana?? Wow. Takanohana must really be powerful in your mind, sir.. Did you consider even the remotest (good word..) possibility that Takanoiwa actually  has a serious head injury? Even Takano head of 10CC met him at the hospital and voiced  his concern on his condition. The only one to actually SEE him. So he's in on this as well? And the Kyokai top guys, all sworn enemies of Takanohana, have also fallen under his diabolical spell and decided  on a special "no demotion to Makushita" pass for Takanoiwa out of sheer paralyzing fear? 

And I'm still waiting for the bigger scandals your favorite tabloids promised us. Probably any day now.

Edited by Kintamayama
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Akinomaki    17,923
1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

the hospital, the doctors, everyone is in on this conspiracy

There were no doctors (and certificates) to witness the decline from the Takanoiwa that left the hospital as declared fit to the wreck they get presented now. Sure he's a wreck now - with the diet of the daily mantra "You're sick, you're getting sicker every day, you can't do sumo!" instead of keiko.

Taka has produced the wreck he needs to have the scandal go on till after the election and for the trial for damages. The scandal would have died down in a week had Takanoiwa participated in Kyushu like the doctors saw no hindrance for. He might have gone make-koshi, because he was denied to train and had instead to stay in hospital to get checked, but he would be in makuuchi now - and Harumafuji only suspended for one basho.

Edited by Akinomaki

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Rocks    886

I expect Takanoiwa to take the Juryo Yusho in March. 

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Kintamayama    22,373
16 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

There were no doctors (and certificates) to witness the decline from the Takanoiwa that left the hospital as declared fit to the wreck they get presented now. Sure he's a wreck now - with the diet of the daily mantra "You're sick, you're getting sicker every day, you can't do sumo!" instead of keiko.

Taka has produced the wreck he needs to have the scandal go on till after the election and for the trial for damages. The scandal would have died down in a week had Takanoiwa participated in Kyushu like the doctors saw no hindrance against. He might have gone make-koshi, because he was denied to train and had instead to stay in hospital to get checked, but he would be in makuuchi now - and Harumafuji only suspended for one basho.

And you know that he's a wreck because of this all  how exactly? So essentially, you are of the view that Takanohana should have shut up "for sumo's sake" and everything would have gone on? I don't understand the logic. And even if Takanoiwa would have participated, the police report was already filed, no? How could Harumafuji have been suspended for only one basho? If nobody found out, there wouldn't have been a suspension. If Takanohana had immediately filed a report with the Kyokai and not waited a few days, Harumafuji would have been thrown out anyway. Please explain to me the logic of this "Harumafuji would have been suspended for one basho" theory and how this could come about. 

Edited by Kintamayama
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Kintamayama    22,373
Just now, Rocks said:

I expect Takanoiwa to take the Juryo Yusho in March. 

I expect him to retire.

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Rocks    886
3 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I expect him to retire.

Seriously? Seems a bit young for that. You don't think he will at least come back for one try to see if he can stay a sekitori?

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Kintamayama    22,373
1 minute ago, Rocks said:

Seriously? Seems a bit young for that. You don't think he will at least come back for one try to see if he can stay a sekitori?

I think he is a pariah at the moment. We shall see. 

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Rocks    886

An interesting side note to this is if you watch the NHK Highlights preview/year in review video Hokutofuji essentially makes the same point Takanoiwa did to piss off Harumafuji but in a nicer way "I think it's our generations time to shine..." . I wonder if there is a general resentment by the younger rikishi? 

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Asashosakari    11,031

Of course it's totally unheard of that the true severity of a head injury might only become apparent days or even weeks later...

And I do find it pretty amusing that we're suddenly meant to take the first medical certificate's recovery estimate at face value (but not any others!), when we've been through years of making fun of these things for prescribing two weeks of rest when a guy just got wheelchaired out of the arena.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Kintamayama    22,373
13 minutes ago, Rocks said:

An interesting side note to this is if you watch the NHK Highlights preview/year in review video Hokutofuji essentially makes the same point Takanoiwa did to piss off Harumafuji but in a nicer way "I think it's our generations time to shine..." . I wonder if there is a general resentment by the younger rikishi? 

You are missing the main difference in Hokutofuji's utterance and that is that he is not Mongolian. The Mongolian rikishi have a different internal interaction and as compatriots, the competition there is more fierce and with a lot of back stories, camps and what not. As I said before-if Takanoiwa was Japanese this would not have happened. And Takanoiwa 's utterance pissed off Hakuhou, not Harumafuji. 

Edited by Kintamayama
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Kintamayama    22,373
2 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Of course it's totally unheard of that the true severity of a head injury might only became apparent days or even weeks later...

And I do find pretty amusing that we're suddenly meant to take the first medical certificate's recovery estimate at face value (but not any others!), when we've been through years of making fun of these things for prescribing two weeks of rest when a guy just got wheelchaired out of the arena.

Exactly. These belated head injury symptoms are pretty common in Pro-wrestling, where the guy complains of a headache/stomach pains etc and then dies from internal bleeding after two weeks. I think Akebono went through that lately, falling ill days after his match.. BTW, does anyone know how he is?

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Akinomaki    17,923
29 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

And you know that he's a wreck because of this all  how exactly? So essentially, you are of the view that Takanohana should have shut up "for sumo's sake" and everything would have gone on? I don't understand the logic. And even if Takanoiwa would have participated, the police report was already filed, no? How could Harumafuji have been suspended for only one basho? If nobody found out, there wouldn't have been a suspension. If Takanohana had immediately filed a report with the Kyokai and not waited a few days, Harumafuji would have been thrown out anyway. Please explain to me the logic of this "Harumafuji would have been suspended for one basho" theory and how this could come about. 

Takanohana could have had his scandal without exaggerating the injury: he would have presented the 10-14 days worth injury that has been certified - unheard of in sumo that an insider protests about any violence, that would have been enough. Takanoiwa was declared fit enough to do sumo, wanted to do it - we only know rikishi that start to do sumo again before the day of estimated full recovery - and here?

With having caused a mediocre injury like that, Harumafuji would have been suspended, not more.

7 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Of course it's totally unheard of that the true severity of a head injury might only became apparent days or even weeks later...

And I do find pretty amusing that we're suddenly meant to take the first medical certificate's recovery estimate at face value (but not any others!), when we've been through years of making fun of these things for prescribing two weeks of rest when a guy just got wheelchaired out of the arena.

Do you think the doctors at the hospital then were idiots?

Full 10 days after the assault, checked for 5 days - and a certificate that not even justified a single day more of kyujo (and there was none till then anyway).

No rikishi ever has been shown to be as weak as this - but you rather take that faint possibility that there suddenly was something that appeared way AFTER so called full recovery? And no doctor to give any certificate to prove this faint possibility, to fulfill at least the requirements for a jungyo kyujo.

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Kintamayama    22,373
12 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Takanohana could have had his scandal without exaggerating the injury: he would have presented the 10-14 days worth injury that has been certified - unheard of in sumo that an insider protests about any violence, that would have been enough. Takanoiwa was declared fit enough to do sumo, wanted to do it - we only know rikishi that start to do sumo again before the day of estimated full recovery - and here?

With having caused a mediocre injury like that, Harumafuji would have been suspended, not more.

Do you think the doctors at the hospital then were idiots?

Full 10 days after the assault, checked for 5 days - and a certificate that not even justified a single day more of kyujo (and there was none till then anyway).

No rikishi ever has been shown to be as weak as this - but you rather take that faint possibility that there suddenly was something that appeared way AFTER so called full recovery? And no doctor to give any certificate to prove this faint possibility, to fulfill at least the requirements for a jungyo kyujo.

So what about the other certificates? All lies then? and yes, serious head injuries can take a few days till they show their seriousness.  You're missing the point vis-a vis Harumafuji. Takanohana went to the police. Regardless of the health certificate, the same facts regarding the assault would have come out and the same result would have been reached. Do you really think the health certificate tipped the scales here? Do you really think that the powers that be would have not called for the retirement regardless of said certificate?  Do you really think that Harumafuji could have continued as a Yokozuna once the facts came out? The minute the police were involved, it was over for Harumafuji, as the media would have pounced on this regardless of the severity of Takanoiwa's injury. The violence and the extent of it is what did it. Or, are you suggesting Takanohana should not have gone to the police in the first place?

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Rocks    886

Considering how effectively rikishi are able to hide injuries, at least from the public, I will always doubt any medical certificate. For all we know Takanoiwa could have asked the Doctor to fudge it a bit as at that point he was attempting to hide it. Later diagnosis could be more accurate as hiding it was no longer or consideration. Or later ones stating it is more serious could be inaccurate as well. In either case we are left with Takanoiwa going kyojo for 2 straight basho. So unless you think he's just a bald faced liar he probably has some kind of real injury.

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Akinomaki    17,923
12 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

So what about the other certificates? All lies then?

Show me other certificates - I saw only 3 so far - 2 then that prove the 10-14 days injury, one now that talks of traces of this and that still detectable.

And you prefer to think that a not even fully drunk Harumafuji would have lost his mind completely to cause the real carnage that would have been needed for this and nobody around to stop it?

They might have done nothing because they saw nothing - till one blow too much that actually caused a 10-14 days worth injury - but not the manslaughter attempt that would have been necessary to cause an injury like this to a healthy makuuchi rikishi.

Taka needed the illusion of this to blow the scandal up to this proportion, so he created this illusion - and he had time enough to produce something that by now puts reality in sync to this illusion.

And I'm sure he simply feels like he's getting Al Capone on a tax fraud.

Edited by Akinomaki

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Kintamayama    22,373
1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

Show me other certificates - I saw only 3 so far - 2 then that prove the 10-14 days injury, one now that talks of traces of this and that still detectable.

And you prefer to think that a not even fully drunk Harumafuji would have lost his mind completely to cause the real carnage that would have been needed for this and nobody around to stop it?

They might have done nothing because they saw nothing - till one blow too much that actually caused a 10-14 days worth injury - but not the manslaughter attempt that would have been necessary to cause an injury like this to a healthy makuuchi rikishi.

Taka needed the illusion of this to blow the scandal up to this proportion, so he created this illusion - and he had time enough to produce something that by now puts reality in sync to this illusion.

And I'm sure he simply feels like getting Al Capone on a tax fraud.

The crisis committee carefully collected evidence from everyone present, yet you know exactly what happened there. I guess even they are in Takanohana's pockets.  Even Harumafuji admitted to the attack. So now you are saying that Harumafuji may have hit him on the head once or twice and not gone berserk? As for nobody around to stop it, everyone was around to stop it but they didn't initially and that is why Hakuhou and Kakuryuu were punished. And when they tried, Harumafuji was in a frenzy and they had a hard time stopping him. So now, you are saying nothing actually happened?

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Dapeng    124
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

So now, the hospital, the doctors, everyone is in on this conspiracy and are all under the power of the Evil Takanohana?? Wow. Takanohana must really be powerful in your mind, sir.. Did you consider even the remotest (good word..) possibility that Takanoiwa actually  has a serious head injury? Even Takano head of 10CC met him at the hospital and voiced  his concern on his condition. The only one to actually SEE him. So he's in on this as well? And the Kyokai top guys, all sworn enemies of Takanohana, have also fallen under his diabolical spell and decided  on a special "no demotion to Makushita" pass for Takanoiwa out of sheer paralyzing fear? 

And I'm still waiting for the bigger scandals your favorite tabloids promised us. Probably any day now.

Takanoiwa no longer suffers any physical injury but psychological injury, which is largly because of what Takanohana had done. 

 

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Akinomaki    17,923
32 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The crisis committee carefully collected evidence from everyone present, yet you know exactly what happened there. I guess even they are in Takanohana's pockets.  Even Harumafuji admitted to the attack. So now you are saying that Harumafuji may have hit him on the head once or twice and not gone berserk? As for nobody around to stop it, everyone was around to stop it but they didn't initially and that is why Hakuhou and Kakuryuu were punished. And when they tried, Harumafuji was in a frenzy and they had a hard time stopping him. So now, you are saying nothing actually happened?

I'm saying there are many ways to look at what happened - and COMPARED to the way Taka claims it had happened - with only his word as proof - I say it was simply mediocre: it was something, a 10-14 days injury is not nothing. But nothing of what has been published and mentioned by the crisis committee or the police has in any way been a proof for more, a proof for Taka's claims - his proof is to be backed by an army of tabloid writers. This is not MY gossip: the tabloids are all on Takas's side, and anybody like Ikenobo, who simply fails to support him absolutely, gets bashed by them - that is what you learn when you look at the tabloids: the stories and who they are backing - you don't need to actually read that.

BTW, the most valuable info so far I saw there was the explanation of the shikona for Taka-Genji and Taka-Yoshitoshi: that are the first names of the founder of the cult that supports Taka and of his son, the present leader.

Edited by Akinomaki

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Dapeng    124
22 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The crisis committee carefully collected evidence from everyone present, yet you know exactly what happened there. I guess even they are in Takanohana's pockets.  Even Harumafuji admitted to the attack. So now you are saying that Harumafuji may have hit him on the head once or twice and not gone berserk? As for nobody around to stop it, everyone was around to stop it but they didn't initially and that is why Hakuhou and Kakuryuu were punished. And when they tried, Harumafuji was in a frenzy and they had a hard time stopping him. So now, you are saying nothing actually happened?

The kyokai disciplined Takanohana by demoting him for two levels, which is a severe punishment never used before. Apparently,  the main reason was that Takanohana refused to cooperate with the kyokai. But why he refused to cooperate? Neither the kyokai nor Takanohana gave any explanation. Besides Harumafuji,  Takanohana was the only one disciplined because of his own misconducts. As a riji/director,  I don't believe he does not know how serious to be uncooperative with his own organization. But still he chose to be uncoorperative.  Why? I believe the kyokai knew, but couldn't tell the public. 

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Bumpkin    351
26 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

BTW, the most valuable info so far I saw there was the explanation of the shikona for Taka-Genji and Taka-Yoshitoshi: that are the first names of the founder of the cult that supports Taka and of his son, the present leader.

I don't read Japanese. Could you please explain about this "cult"?

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Kintamayama    22,373
49 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Takanoiwa no longer suffers any physical injury but psychological injury, which is largly because of what Takanohana had done. 

 

And you know this how? He told you? 

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Kintamayama    22,373
20 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

The kyokai disciplined Takanohana by demoting him for two levels, which is a severe punishment never used before. Apparently,  the main reason was that Takanohana refused to cooperate with the kyokai. But why he refused to cooperate? Neither the kyokai nor Takanohana gave any explanation. Besides Harumafuji,  Takanohana was the only one disciplined because of his own misconducts. As a riji/director,  I don't believe he does not know how serious to be uncooperative with his own organization. But still he chose to be uncoorperative.  Why? I believe the kyokai knew, but couldn't tell the public. 

So you too are saying Harumafuji actually did nothing and that he is actually the real victim here? Or maybe Takanohana knows something that can damage the Kyokai even more?

Edited by Kintamayama

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Dapeng    124
2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

And you know this how? He told you? 

Well, isn't he house-arrested by Takanohana for nearly 3 months? 

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