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rhyen

Yokozuna kyujo records

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As evidence from the yoimuri shimbun, I wonder how much longer can Kakuryu & Kisenosato continue going kyujo.

I also see the Hakkaku oyakata also went kyujo for the 4 basho (twice) while active.

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Table summary for the nihonically or kanjically challenged: (they don't pay me enough for the entire article)

Most consecutive basho with kyujo for a yokozuna

8- Nishinoumi III

7- Takanohana

6-Kashiwado, Kitanoumi, Musashimaru

5-Musashiyama, Taihou

4- 10 yokozuna including Takanosato, Hokutoumi twice, Kakuryuu, Kisenosato.

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I know people always want the NSK to directly transition to some Olympic style training program for the rikishi but this is the kind of opposition that rises up against those kinds of reforms. The meat of the article is:

Kisenosato doesn't do enough keiko

And then he goes on to say that since Futagoyama oyakata (moto Takanohana Ozeki) said that Sumo comes from the legs, that it doesn't matter that much if Kisenosato's arm is injured and can't do Ottsuke (Basically the arm jockeying to get belt grips) very well anymore, he just needs to do more keiko. Not only just do keiko, but sweat a lot and work hard and there should be some result. And he definitely should do keiko during honbasho.

Don't underestimate how loud the keiko is healing crowd can be in Japan.

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Kisenosato is 5 basho as yokozuna, 4 kyujo.

He's given out 10 kinboshi in 42 matches, 17 losses in those 42 matches.

I think it's the worst start for a yokozuna ever although he won his first tournament as a yokozuna and got injuried, his record after that it 10-15 with 31missed bouts, he needs to stay away 1 basho to just focusing on getting fit(like Chiyonofuji when got injuried) and try a comeback, if he doesn't have the fire in him to train hard he needs to retire before the embarassment gets worse.

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2 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

if he doesn't have the fire in him to train hard he needs to retire before the embarassment gets worse.

I'm sure training hard is the thing that's going to join his pectoral muscle back to the tendons involved.  "Just train harder" was abandoned as a medical treatment in most sports decades ago for a reason.

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5 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I know people always want the NSK to directly transition to some Olympic style training program for the rikishi but this is the kind of opposition that rises up against those kinds of reforms. The meat of the article is:

Kisenosato doesn't do enough keiko

And then he goes on to say that since Futagoyama oyakata (moto Takanohana Ozeki) said that Sumo comes from the legs, that it doesn't matter that much if Kisenosato's arm is injured and can't do Ottsuke (Basically the arm jockeying to get belt grips) very well anymore, he just needs to do more keiko. Not only just do keiko, but sweat a lot and work hard and there should be some result. And he definitely should do keiko during honbasho.

Don't underestimate how loud the keiko is healing crowd can be in Japan.

Two things I've noticed about Kisenosato in this basho:

  • His leg seems to give out during matches - not enough keiko ;-)
  • He seems to lean overly to one side - shoulder injury still bothering him? :-|

 

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1 hour ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

I'm sure training hard is the thing that's going to join his pectoral muscle back to the tendons involved.  "Just train harder" was abandoned as a medical treatment in most sports decades ago for a reason.

As surgery was out of the way,(imo surgery should be number 1 in injury case) the only thing left to do is try to compensate for the stupid decision to not have surgery by, as i said in the same post, getting fit and training hard, people say he barely does keikko and if so, please tell me how he will recover without surgery or training to get used to or strenghten his injury. Sitting around will certainly just make it worse and overtraining will too, "train hard" doesn't mean overtrain it means train to your limit and if his limit is not training much he needs surgery or retirement, after all he's a yokozuna, can't slack around no matter what.

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This time Kise's kyujo is for the foot and a bruised hip: pretence for kyujo, but he surely really is injured there as well - too much or not enough work for the damaged left foot anterior talofibular ligament ?

sum17112205030001-p4.jpgo

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26 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

This time Kise's kyujo is for the foot and a bruised hip: pretence for kyujo, but he surely really is injured there as well - too much or not enough work for the damaged left foot anterior talofibular ligament ?

sum17112205030001-p4.jpgo

My right foot is forever damaged because of ripped ligament, i used to train judo but didn't put enough stretch and didn't train my lower body as much, one time i was defending a throw and i just felt a tear on my foot, the way to get 100% of my foot mobility again is surgery or physiotherapy to get used to it, i went for physiotherapy(no money for surgery) and now i feel like 80%, tough time and tough choices for Kise.

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5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

This time Kise's kyujo is for the foot and a bruised hip: pretence for kyujo, but he surely really is injured there as well - too much or not enough work for the damaged left foot anterior talofibular ligament ?

sum17112205030001-p4.jpgo

Do we know if it is a grade I, II or III tear? Because this is crucial.

I have had chronic issues with that same ligament in my left foot. I'm still not 100% from a grade II tear I had 11 years ago after intensive physiotherapy and care (have went through multiple periods of more than a month where I wasn't allowed to touch my left heel to the ground, even- and it was that degree of precaution and care that have let me be active in sports since then). Sometimes when I swim I feel like my foot is disconnected from my leg and if I leave it dangling it takes a large inward angle.

However, a grade I ATFL tear is just a regular run-of-the-mill sprained ankle. As for a grade III tear, I understand that you can rarely walk the same way after it.

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16 hours ago, McBugger said:

Do we know if it is a grade I, II or III tear? Because this is crucial.

We only know that 1 month of resting the leg is called necessary in the medical certificate (would be nice if they'd make them all public like with the one for Takanoiwa) - and we can guess that it happened before and didn't hinder him from appearing on the dohyo till it was too obvious that he can't win.

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On 22.11.2017 at 20:39, Joaoiyama said:

Kisenosato is 5 basho as yokozuna, 4 kyujo.

He's given out 10 kinboshi in 42 matches, 17 losses in those 42 matches.

I think it's the worst start for a yokozuna ever ...

Different times, but still:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3801

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3743

 

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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

We only know that 1 month of resting the leg is called necessary in the medical certificate (would be nice if they'd make them all public like with the one for Takanoiwa) - and we can guess that it happened before and didn't hinder him from appearing on the dohyo till it was too obvious that he can't win.

Yikes- so not a grade I regular ankle sprain- which means he's probably already dealt himself serious damage by not sitting out.

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On 11/22/2017 at 12:26, Tsuchinoninjin said:

And then he goes on to say that since Futagoyama oyakata (moto Takanohana Ozeki) said that Sumo comes from the legs, that it doesn't matter that much if Kisenosato's arm is injured and can't do Ottsuke (Basically the arm jockeying to get belt grips) very well anymore, he just needs to do more keiko.

That could have possibly been true 20-ish years ago when he was running Futagoyama where oshi and yotsu were the predominant styles.  In the past 15 years or so it seems a lot more pulling and "backwards moving sumo" is more common.  It seemed to coincide with the domination of the Mongolians although I have no idea that is a coincidence or the cause. 

 

This changing of dominant styles of sumo is just my opinion from watching sumo for 40 years and I have no data to prove/disprove any of it.   Not saying there wasn't pulling, etc "back in the day" just that I don't recall the top of the banzuke using it as much as they do today.

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20 minutes ago, Washuyama said:

That could have possibly been true 20-ish years ago when he was running Futagoyama where oshi and yotsu were the predominant styles.  In the past 15 years or so it seems a lot more pulling and "backwards moving sumo" is more common.  It seemed to coincide with the domination of the Mongolians although I have no idea that is a coincidence or the cause. 

I'd argue the rise of oshi-zumo and backpedalling began with the Hawaiians, whose sheer size made yotsu ineffective against them for all but the strongest opponents. And at least Akebono was very good at keeping his opponents off the mawashi altogether.

And now everybody is big (relatively speaking), so everyone's doing that. If anything the Mongolian presence has probably stalled the process.

(Although a near future in which the Mongolian headliners may be the likes of Terunofuji, Ichinojo and Mitoryu probably wasn't what people were expecting back when "the Mongolians are making sumo more athletic and technical again" was a common argument in favour of opening up the foreigner quotas...)

Edited by Asashosakari
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