Atenzan

Hakuho misconduct (split from Basho Talk Kyushu 2017)

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Joaoiyama    47
2 minutes ago, Jyuunomori said:

It is the bottle and the ice pick, man. Someone took the ice pick and bored the pick into his head with the bottle to lobotomize him.

Here's the proof

haknife.jpg

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Bumpkin    315

There is no conspiracy theory. Simply put, Hakuho thought it was a matta. He made a mistake, just as Harumafuji did in Aki. Then he compounded his mistake by making another one. Thinking he could call a mono-ii. This is a one day story. Hakuho will, in all probability, win his 40th yusho on Sunday. He might retire. After all, he has nothing left to prove. The Boss!

Edited by Bumpkin
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Stein    23

It would be very painful for him to lose the basho just for this silly action.

Yet again, i think that he will still win...

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Joaoiyama    47

1 ou of 2 things will happen, his mindset has been broken and he'll lose or ... he becomes even more godlike(or devil like) and crushes everyone with maybe some angry/bloodthirsty tsuppari like when he f***** Yoshikaze up and threw him on an elder breaking his femur.

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robnplunder    175
52 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

Especially because Mitakeumi beat him last time.

And I think the vast majority of fans will be rooting for Mitakeumi today.  If I were Mitakeumi, my strategy would be a, gasp, henka or HNH.   But I haven't seen Mitakeumi resort to henka that much.

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ALAKTORN    273
Just now, robnplunder said:

And I think the vast majority of fans will be rooting for Mitakeumi today.  If I were Mitakeumi, my strategy would be a, gasp, henka or HNH.   But I haven't seen Mitakeumi resort to henka that much.

If I were Mitakeumi I’d probably just pull a Hattorizakura.

I hope he doesn’t get hurt.

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Kuroyama    522
5 hours ago, Amanogawa said:

I still can't believe or don't want to believe what I saw today after musubi.  Nothing like that ever happened at least in my long sumo-watching time. The announcer kept saying, "This is not good... This is not what dai-yokozuna shoud be doing.. "  Shinpan or gyoji did not make a move not because they were powerless, I think,  but things they saw there were beyond their comprehension. Something that can't happen was happening in the real Kokugikan. And it was no one but dai-yokozuna that everybody should admire.

Surely that over-dramatizes events at least a little. The officials made no move because they were waiting for Hakuho to do what he was supposed to do, and it's less embarrassing all around if he does it on his own rather than being ordered to by the shimpan.

Even if they were in the Kokugikan, there has been plenty of bad behavior over the years.

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Jaynestown    17
10 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

And I think the vast majority of fans will be rooting for Mitakeumi today.  If I were Mitakeumi, my strategy would be a, gasp, henka or HNH.   But I haven't seen Mitakeumi resort to henka that much.

If anything it may be more realistic to assume that Hakuho would go for a henka since Mitakeumi beat him last time (and also maybe just as an extra thing to spite the folks around the ring after yesterday).  The only guy who seemed to be primed to put up a great fight so far was Hokutofuji and Hakuho sensed that and stepped to the side.  If I was Mitakeumi I would just stand up as well like Yoshikaze just did and at least make Hakuho work to toss you out.

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robnplunder    175
3 minutes ago, Kuroyama said:

.

Even if they were in the Kokugikan, there has been plenty of bad behavior over the years.

 

As recent as a few days ago when Chioshoma slapped Hokutofuji after a matta.   To me, that was also scandalous.   

This basho started with Hardumafuji scandal, Chioshoma, and then Hakuho.    Unfortunately, they are all Mongolian rikishi and it's a black eye to the entire lot.  They are enjoying their success b/c Japan let them into their traditional sport.   Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

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robnplunder    175
3 minutes ago, Jaynestown said:

If anything it may be more realistic to assume that Hakuho would go for a henka ...

Chuckle.   That is very likely given Hak's past behavior.  It is a sad state of the things in Yokozuna land - the GOAT is more likely to henka than his opponent.

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Amamaniac    129

Three things to add to the discussion: (1) Hakuho did not direct his two appeals to the shimpancho, but rather to the shimpan/timekeeper (?) across from the shimpancho.  Why do Forum users think that was?  (2) Once Hakuho finally climbed back up onto the ring, the referee proceeded with his official duties awarding the kensho to Yoshikaze.  The referee did not, however, dare to make Hakuho bow.  That is usually done when the losing wrestler doesn't bow before turning to leave.  But Hakuho did not start to leave the ring until after the bow twirler had stepped up into the ring to start his ritual.  (3) Walking out of the stadium, Hakuho threw his facecloth at his tsukibito in disgust.  The tsukibito missed and had to pick it up off the floor.

Frankly, I read Hakuho as being proud of his achievements in the sport and trying to flex his muscles to get more respect (that may also be behind the Harumafuji-Takanoiwa incident).  I don't think he is acting like a child (i.e., he did not throw a fit, but merely stood there with a calm face urging the judges to reconsider), nor is he conceited in a distastefully arrogant way.  But in this instance, he was not going to get his way.  He was a little frustrated, but not visibly angry.

Edited by Amamaniac
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Jakusotsu    1,766
39 minutes ago, Kuroyama said:

Surely that over-dramatizes events at least a little.

No, it doesn't. Amanogawa is one of the true souls of Japan. It's always a rare treasure of enlightenment when she chimes in.

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Asashosakari    9,839
1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

As fas as I can recall, a mono-ii has *never* been held because of a supposedly missed matta call. Makes Hakuho look triple stupid.

Indeed. After all the head shimpan already has the ability to call matta at the start of the match if he's not satisfied with the gyoji's officiating, and if it's not being called right then and there, no way he or any of the other four shimpan are going to do it after the bout.

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Kuroyama    522
38 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(1) Hakuho did not direct his two appeals to the shimpancho, but rather to the shimpan/timekeeper (?) across from the shimpancho.  Why do Forum users think that was?

I think he did direct his first appeal in that direction, but turned to the other side when he got no response. See  https://youtu.be/eBjeS5fPfdU?t=13m47s.  He keeps glancing in that direction (see 13:57) and then at 14:07 you can see him looking the other way, which is also where he's looking at 14:12 when he appears to make a verbal appeal. But at that point you can see the timekeeper is also looking in Hakuho's direction, so perhaps there was something said in both directions? I assume it would be up to the timekeeper to move things along if rikishi are taking too long at any point.

 

Edited by Kuroyama

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dada78641    324
3 hours ago, Tsubame said:

Does him beliving it was a matta, excuses for behaving like a petulant child? For demanding a mono-ii, despite the fact he has no right to do so? For not bowing after the match? Does it?

Did you read the rest of my post, like right underneath the part you quoted? I guess not, but I'll repeat: I said he'll probably apologize for it, because he should realize that it was his mistake and that he was in the wrong. I don't know why you're implying that I think there was nothing wrong with his reaction.

However, the reason why I posted what I did was to try and explain that he didn't deliberately throw the match hoping to be "rescued by the shinpan" because he can't beat Yoshikaze. He legitimately believed that it was a matta. Any other explanation is just nonsense.

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Stein    23
1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

And I think the vast majority of fans will be rooting for Mitakeumi today.  If I were Mitakeumi, my strategy would be a, gasp, henka or HNH.   But I haven't seen Mitakeumi resort to henka that much.

Damn you really hate Hakuho, hey?

Probably if you saw a Henka on Kisenosato you would feel embarrased, to be honest, but hey, against the real deal, everything goes, right? :)

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Stein    23
1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

 

As recent as a few days ago when Chioshoma slapped Hokutofuji after a matta.   To me, that was also scandalous.   

This basho started with Hardumafuji scandal, Chioshoma, and then Hakuho.    Unfortunately, they are all Mongolian rikishi and it's a black eye to the entire lot.  They are enjoying their success b/c Japan let them into their traditional sport.   Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Sure, and if it wasnt for the mongolians sumo would be so boring and would generate so less income...

The JSA should not forget that as well, is a double benefit for each group...

Mongolias do not "need" sumo, they are excelent at many other forms of grappling, the best example is the way their judo team is performing lately...

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Shatsume    40
7 hours ago, Tsubame said:

There is a huge difference between doing something stupid backstage or on top of the dohyo while millions are watching. ;-)

But I agree with you, that a plain apology is everything Hakuho will facing.

Yup. One is heat of the moment arrogance in a sporting arena when adrenaline is pumping, the other is thug like behaviour.

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Shatsume    40
6 hours ago, dada78641 said:

There's no way in 10,000 years that Hakuhou would ever consider deliberately pulling a trick like this—and even if he did, he wouldn't make such a public display of it if it failed. Everything about his reaction indicates that he truly believed it to be a matta with every fiber of his being.

Really? Like, reeeally????

Nothing shy of the epitome of arrogance today. He truly is the greatest Yokozuna to ever walk this planet, but that was painful to watch today.

 

(Of course, tin hat Kinta could be on to something with the mis-direction angle!)

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Tsubame    208
2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Unfortunately, they are all Mongolian rikishi

It is not a matter of shusshin, it is a question of character!

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dada78641    324
16 minutes ago, Shatsume said:

Really? Like, reeeally????

Yeah, really.

Anyone who says otherwise is just wearing a tin foil hat. He was mistaken, and threw a tantrum and made a fool out of himself, and he should feel very embarrassed indeed, but he certainly did not plan to throw the match ahead of time hoping to be saved by the shinpan.

Edited by dada78641

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Kintamayama    19,945
13 hours ago, d_golem said:

Now Moti, you're saying now (and have also to other people before) that the GOAT have been planning this all along?? Doesn't that make him, like, really cool??

I didn't say he was planning THIS, but it sure fits in with my conspiracy theory.

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Kintamayama    19,945
4 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Wow, a Dai-poster-zuna calling for the mods to split the thread?! Wonder what the admin-rijicho is gonna say about this...

I already apologized.

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Shatsume    40
6 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Yeah, really.

Anyone who says otherwise is just wearing a tin foil hat. He was mistaken, and threw a tantrum and made a fool out of himself, and he should feel very embarrassed indeed, but he certainly did not plan to throw the match ahead of time hoping to be saved by the shinpan.

Fair enough, I agree whole heartedly with what you say here. It's the 'Everything about his reaction indicates that he truly believed it to be a matta with every fiber of his being'  that I was having a go at, he should still 'play to the whistle' so to speak, and being a dai Yokozuna doesn't give you the excuse to act like a complete twit.

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Kintamayama    19,945

Fujishima Oyakata:  "The tachiai was perfect. Yoshikaze received the initial attack and maybe that's what threw Hakuhou off. Still, both parties had their hands down firmly, the hakkeyoi from the gyoji resonated loud and clear, so the tachiai was perfect. The fact that Hakuhou thought on his own that a matta was needed doesn't make it right. Standing there refusing to mount the dohyo and acknowledge the loss - Hakuhou acted like a spoiled brat. Yoshikaze got a quick morozashi and at this point Hakuhou started to demand a matta and even if he did think that, there was nothing he could do about it at that point. The shimpan should not have kept quiet and should have asked him to quickly mount the dohyo. There is a terrible after- taste to all this. Naturally, he should be summoned to the judging department and receive a stern reprimand."

Edited by Kintamayama
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