Basho Talk Kyushu 2017 (SPOILERS)

[dada78641 871]

It's not quite wrapped up yet, but Goueidou is tomorrow's dessert for Hakuhou. Incredible. 40 yuushou in 100 basho.

Also: regardless of whether he wins or loses tomorrow, he is now back at a ≥85.0% win rate in Makuuchi.

On a side note, I'm glad Hokutofuji fought such a great basho. He can still get either a shared or sole jun-yuushou. I kind of wanted him to win, but I'm also glad Ounoshou is giving himself the opportunity to get a last minute KK.

 

[dada78641 871]

Oh yeah, I liked this graphic they kept showing throughout the day.

Clearly, it seems that Okinoumi is going to fight the secret boss of sumo on senshuuraku. Probably Akuma or Geese Howard. That means if he wins, he will beat sumo and get to see the hidden ending.

[Atenzan 1,074]

36 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

he is now back at a ≥85.0% win rate in Makuuchi.

That's insane. If a pool player can regularly get a .850 TPA (balls potted/(balls potted+errors)), he's probably one of the world's top 20.

Hakuhou is as likely to win a makuuchi bout (against one of the top 16, no less) as a top pool player is likely to make a random shot. 

[Kishinoyama 557]

3 hours ago, Kaioshoryu said:

Boring basho, predictable outcome.

Just out of curiosity, what would have made the basho more exciting? A playoff? A Maegashira yusho? Someone else winning other than Hakuho?

I know it would have helped to have less kyujo rikishi but sometimes that can't be helped.

[wys 55]

9 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

Just out of curiosity, what would have made the basho more exciting? A playoff? A Maegashira yusho? Someone else winning other than Hakuho?

I know it would have helped to have less kyujo rikishi but sometimes that can't be helped.

Maybe Hakuho wrestling with a handicap like having one arm behind his back or being blindfolded? 

But seriously, it goes without saying that having at least another rikishi at the same level as Hakuho would make it more exciting but such is life and we should all be grateful to witness the Hakuho era live. But I think there are many considerations other than who the winner of the tournament would be that can make a basho exciting. For example, although not at the level of Hakuho, there are quite a few talented up and coming rikishi in the top division and it is exciting to watch them wrestle against some of the more experienced guys. There's a certain level of energy they bring to the dohyo that I think is refreshing.

 

What do others think? What gets you excited about this basho or any other basho during the Hakuho era?

 

Cheers,

[Yubinhaad 11,046]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Had to cap this one early, just for those first five seconds of the bout:

First bout I've seen where the slow-mo replay looked like the full speed of many bouts!

I saw a Toki bout once where he was doing that kind of rapid-fire tsuppari, but backpedalling at the same time because the opponent was unmoved. Funny stuff.

[Dapeng 231]

2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

He's probably better than most of juryo too.

All the current makuuchi rikishies (probably also all the juryos also) have shown to us that none of them has the talent of Hakuho. Hakuho was not outstanding before reaching makuuchi. But once he competed in makuuchi, many people knew he would become a yokozuna.

I don't know if another Hakuho is currently hidden among the non-sekitories. 

[Bumpkin 438]

2 hours ago, McBugger said:

Seems to me that if Hakuhou can get his name on every day 15 torikumi board he could get 5 yusho next year.

 

That, of course, is a big "if". I would say Hakuho is good for 3 yushos a year.

[Dwale 419]

Again. It would be so easy to overlook a dame-oshi if it wasn't for the fact that Hakuho does dame-oshi all the damned time. The Hakuho apologists always want to treat every infraction as though it were an isolated incident, but the fact is that Hakuho has a well-established pattern of misconduct going back years. Yes, he's an amazing athlete, absolutely. You would need to be blind not to see that. But you would need to be equally blind not to notice that he's a jerk.

So, with that said, just a few thoughts here as the basho winds down to a close...

Ichinojo: I like Ichinojo, when he fights. He's had injury-related problems, but I suspect there are psychological issues which have hurt his record even more in the long term. I want to believe he's back and ready to seize his destiny, because if this guy gets fired up then makuuchi had better brace for impact. Only time will tell.

Onosho: It's good to be fast, but you have to realize when it's the right moment to apply that speed. He's learned a lot about that this basho. If you look at his record before getting to makuuchi (by which I mean strictly the numbers) then it looks...respectable, I guess, but not stellar. So, did all that experience finally click in his head, or what? I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about Onosho. I like what I see.

Chiyoshoma: I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that late slap from earlier in the basho, but it most definitely was not a good look on him. If you can't comport yourself like a gentleman then you have no business in sumo, period. But, this is a combat sport and sometimes the guys get fired up and forget themselves. As long as it doesn't become a pattern of behavior then I'm willing to overlook that incident. I think he has a lot of potential, but no amount of talent will excuse habitual disrespect. We shall see.

Yoshikaze is getting old. He's not ready for the wheelchair yet, but unlike Aminishiki, I can't see him resorting to tricks. He will continue to bludgeon his opponents' hands with his face until the day he retires, God bless him. How can you not love this guy?

Chiyonokuni's record does not reflect his fighting spirit. Really hoping he can hang around, and I think he will. He's ferocious.

Tochinoshin! Another hard fighter, and he has power to burn. I always look forward to his matches. What a monster. Hoping he gets well soon.

Endo: I used to think he was a scrub, but that was unfair. He's a pretty good wrestler, but I still feel like he's too inconsistent. But, I do think he has the potential to place in lower sanyaku someday. Not going to hold my breath on his going beyond that point, though.

Aminishki: Ouch, what a losing streak. Do whatever you need to do, Grandpa, we'll forgive you pretty much anything at this point.

[Kintamayama 42,781]

2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I didn’t see Hakuhō’s as a dameoshi today. Endō wasn’t yet out, sure he was going backwards but that was entirely of his own will, he had given up. Hakuhō had no reason to aknowledge his giving up and letting him go out himself or only lightly tap him. He did what you should do when your aite is still inside the ring– push him out.

Endou was totally out and had stopped moving. It wasn't a wild extra strong dame-oshi, but it was a dame oshi. the bout was over. He was out, Hakuhou saw he was out, but in the flow, he made sure. He didn't need to, but made sure. I stick to my view-it was a dame-oshi.

[Sakura 1,341]

I have to echo the sentiment that the basho was not exciting. Hakuho's dominance makes it quite boring. I can appreciate his skill and records, but it's not interesting for there to be no competition at all. 

[orandashoho 720]

I don't think it was a boring basho by far. Bashos have become a lot more interesting now that we have a large crop of promising youngsters slowly getting into place to challenge the old guard.

It is sad to see Kisenosato fight so long and hard at the top of his form to earn his final promotion, only to have his glory at the pinnacle cut short by serious injury.  Will he ever reclaim the Y1e spot, I wonder. Not with Hakuho blocking the way.

Hakuho is the Dai of Dai-Yokozuna who totally earned his place at the top, and if he misbehaves -- who can forget that crazy ending of his fight against Yoshikaze? -- let it fire up a myriad challengers to throw him down. I'd like to see those fights. I"m sure that everyone else does too. No way would the Kyokai ask him to retire or skip a basho.

When was the last time that a pair of M1 rikishi both stood at double digits on Day 14? Takakeisho may be the next Ozeki.

Even with all the yushos already decided, the last day is going to be exciting. Five sekitori in Makuuchi and six in Juryo are fighting for their kachi-koshis, Enho still has a match to fight, and there are dozens of dramas still unfolding.

[Doitsuyama 1,161]

11 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

When was the last time that a pair of M1 rikishi both stood at double digits on Day 14? Takakeisho may be the next Ozeki.

You really asking?

 

[orandashoho 720]

2 minutes ago, Doitsuyama said:

15 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

When was the last time that a pair of M1 rikishi both stood at double digits on Day 14? Takakeisho may be the next Ozeki.

You really asking?

I'm glad you confirmed that this was a rhetorical question. Maybe there are other things that make this basho even more unique, but it is surely exciting.

[Rocks 1,790]

27 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

When was the last time that a pair of M1 rikishi both stood at double digits on Day 14? Takakeisho may be the next Ozeki.

I have to say I am very impressed by him. I have missed the whole second half of the year unfortunately, but IMO next to Hakuho he has had the best year.  With a win today he will finish at worst 2 wins back and isecond in total wins behind Hakuho for the year along with 3 kinboshi and 3 sansho. Quite a year.  I figured he'd outdo Ura but I would not be surprised to see him go straight to Sekiwake for January with a win today.

[Bumpkin 438]

S1e Mitakeumi (8-6) is the only rikishi to have kachi-koshi in all 6 Makuuchi bashos in 2017. He is currently 53-36. I believe he will be the next Ozeki.

[Asojima 2,848]

43 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

 Takakeisho may be the next Ozeki.

At my count, there are now at least 14 "next Ozeki"s active as sekitori.  It's going to get very crowded up there.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Asojima

[Arn 24]

 

And Hakuho wins again...unfortunately it feels like the three last bashos was almost won on walkover since most top-guys dropped out. I feel that fact also has a lot to do with the success of many of the newer guys. These bashos should have been golden opportunities for somebody like Goeido, before he gets overtaken by a younger generation.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Arn

[wys 55]

If I had to lay money down among the rikishi mentioned, I would say Takakeisho would be the next ozeki. Mitakeumi is still nursing an injury and who knows how long it will take for him to be in full form. Ura is too inconsistent and a bit overrated. His matches are exciting but it seems like he has too much unchanneled energy; he is all over the place. Onosho hasn't had as much success with the upper-rank guys as much as Takakeisho. Not to mention, Takakeisho has a winning record against Ura and Mitakeumi, and is tied with Onosho.  

 

 

[dada78641 871]

3 hours ago, McBugger said:

That's insane. If a pool player can regularly get a .850 TPA (balls potted/(balls potted+errors)), he's probably one of the world's top 20.

Hakuhou is as likely to win a makuuchi bout (against one of the top 16, no less) as a top pool player is likely to make a random shot. 

Aside from liking sumo I'm also a big snooker fan. Snooker is played on a table twice as large as a pool table, and they meticulously keep statistics for every ranked match. There is no official record for pot success rate, but recently Ronnie O'Sullivan, the greatest player to ever live, won a best out of 17 match with a ridiculous 98% pot success rate. (It varies, but they usually pot around ~35 balls per frame. He won 9-2 in frames.)

Sorry for the diversion, but I love pocket billiards.

1 hour ago, orandashoho said:

It is sad to see Kisenosato fight so long and hard at the top of his form to earn his final promotion, only to have his glory at the pinnacle cut short by serious injury.  Will he ever reclaim the Y1e spot, I wonder. Not with Hakuho blocking the way.

Yeah, it's really sad. He was going to be a competitive yokozuna, and then this happens. People still love him, but he's been injured for so long that it's very unlikely now he'll ever be the same again.

It's a shame that we've got effectively only one yokozuna now. All the others are injured. Harumafuji excelled at fighting despite his many injuries...but, well, he's probably gone now too. Although I hope not. He's the only check on Hakuhou right now.

Edited November 25, 2017 by dada78641

[Benevolance 2,379]

3 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

Just out of curiosity, what would have made the basho more exciting?

Maybe a scandal? Or even a double scandal? OMG, we could totally set this up! I know a guy...you'll recognize him by his scarf. 

2 hours ago, Dwale said:

Yes, he's an amazing athlete, absolutely. You would need to be blind not to see that. But you would need to be equally blind not to notice that he's a jerk.

Yeah, but Ikioi is a good counterpoint. He frequently lets up on his opponent at the tawari. It is really considerate of him, but the number of times he gets beat because he doesn't keep shoving his opponent is ridiculous. 

[Benevolance 2,379]

4 hours ago, McBugger said:

Goueidou- paging @Benevolance to be funnier than me

Much like Goeidou, I've got nothing. 

[dada78641 871]

It's more fun when Hakuhou has serious opposition, of course. But I didn't think it was boring. It's always good to see the master at work. I loved his bout with Ichinojou. Plus there was tons of other interesting stuff going on, nice bouts in the lower ranks.

But I don't think we've had a truly fantastic rivalry in sumo since Asashouryuu left the sport. Although Harumafuji did his best, he was just less of a danger to him than Asa. I wonder if we'll ever get treated to a dai-yokozuna rivalry again...it will probably take a while.

Edited November 25, 2017 by dada78641

[Asojima 2,848]

13 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

...it will probably take a while.

Don't hold your breath.  It will take many years for the new dai-yokozuna to develop, and then the old one will be gone. ... And dai-yokozunas are boring.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Asojima

[Fukurou 534]

Wacky Aki was pretty fun because Hakuho and his pre-ordained victory wasn't there