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Kintamayama

Preparations of the masses -Kyushu 2017

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Burajirotono    23

Maybe the kyokai should do some kind of insurance for sekitoris. So they could keep receiving money when they´re struggling to come back to Juryo/makuchi after an major injury. 

(Smokingpipe...)

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Asashosakari    8,862
8 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

The best way around this I think is to allow the number of makuuchi and sekitori to float a bit more, with 42 and 70 just being the targets, and having them make an attempt to have those be the average numbers over extended periods of time. Or even have them be just minimums and deal with the fact they have to shell out more money.  ... That then raises the question if they'd be willing to float more people in situations like the Juryo/Makushita line this most recent banzuke.  Regardless, it would probably mean that there would be far less lucky promotions as they would look for ways to justify evening out the amounts over a long period of time.

Unless things have quietly changed at some time, the 42/28 slots actually are "up to" numbers in the internal regulations. It's just that they ceased leaving spots unfilled quite a long time ago. (Except for one basho right after the yaocho fiasco.) So there's precedent for having the numbers float, but I suspect it was always a contentious matter back when they were still doing it, because it necessarily introduces even more discretion into the banzuke making process.

Edited by Asashosakari
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sekitori    174
5 hours ago, Gurowake said:

So maybe a system where someone could go on injured reserve, and his official banzuke rank would be what it normally would be under today's system, but when he returned to competition, he would be inserted in the rankings for pairing purposes about one basho's absence worth of ranking below where he left instead of however many it took for him to recover, and then his new ranking for next basho would be based on his results in that basho where his banzuke rank and pairing rank were not the same.  If he doesn't manage 4 wins as sekitori or 2 wins as non-sekitori, he's returned to his official (much lower) banzuke rank. 

So to illustrate:

Ozeki gets injured, goes on reserve.  Next basho is ranked & paid as Sekiwake, next basho as Maegashira, next basho as Juryo, next as Makushita.  Then returns, is paired as though he's a Sekiwake.  If he gets 10 wins, he's back up to Ozeki.  If he has a reasonable MK, he stays near the top of the division, but if he totally bombs out he actually heads to Makushita.

Something like that at least, if not in detail.

 

 

4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

That's along the lines I've been brainstorming as well. The biggest practical issue (other than it being "weird" when a makushita-or-lower guy gets a sekitori torikumi) is probably that things could get very crunched if there are multiple returnees in the same basho and you suddenly have, say, 73 rikishi battling over the 70 makuuchi/juryo spots on the next banzuke even before any promotions from makushita have been considered.

I do think there needs to be a reasonable ranking penalty; my preference would be to reinstate long-time absent makuuchi rikishi as bottom-juryo equivalent, juryo rikishi as Ms15-equivalent. The devil is in the details, of course.

These are excellent ideas. I think you should submit them to the NSK and call them either the "Gurosakari" or "Asashowake" rules". The present system for dealing with injured rikishis is totally inadequate and unfair. Unfortunately, whether the NSK will do anything about it in the foreseeable future is at best, questionable.  

Edited by sekitori

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Yamanashi    27

Is there a case of confirmation bias in the way NSK handles injured rishiki?  The people who make the rules are former yokozuna, ozeki, maegashira ... many (most) of them faced injuries in their careers, and probably most of them retired because of injuries rather than advancing age.  But this group stuck at the top level long enough to get some sumo credibility and save money toward becoming a member of the ruling council.  Was it always will or perseverance, or was some luck involved? If Ura (with a blown ACL that's not treated?) sinks out of sight and is intai after three years, who's going to think of him as a potential oyakata? It seems that the inability to overcome major sports injuries by "taping it up" is being treated as a character flaw.

Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed.  I await the gentle manhandling of the group.

 

Edited by Yamanashi
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Benihana    391
8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Is there a case of confirmation bias in the way NSK handles injured rishiki?  The people who make the rules are former yokozuna, ozeki, maegashira ... many (most) of them faced injuries in their careers, and probably most of them retired because of injuries rather than advancing age.  But this group stuck at the top level long enough to get some sumo credibility and save money toward becoming a member of the ruling council.  Was it always will or perseverance, or was some luck involved? If Ura (with a blown ACL that's not treated?) sinks out of sight and is intai after three years, who's going to think of him as a potential oyakata? It seems that the inability to overcome major sports injuries by "taping it up" is being treated as a character flaw.

Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed.  I await the gentle manhandling of the group.

 

No, you're right. At least my hopes now lie on Kotooshu. He alreay started to change the system within his heya, regarding training and nutrition and i'm pretttty sure he won't do the "walk it off"-babble the other shisho secrete.

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Akinomaki    14,566

Last pics of preparations: Asanoyama and Yutakayama at their respective heya

1f1ac306-7077-40d3-ad92-29c7400ddecf.jpgo

"I want to get back to makuuchi quickly and stay there."

0046800700300771s.jpgo

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Churaumi    44
On 11/12/2017 at 03:36, Benihana said:

No, you're right. At least my hopes now lie on Kotooshu. He alreay started to change the system within his heya, regarding training and nutrition and i'm pretttty sure he won't do the "walk it off"-babble the other shisho secrete.

While it’s cool that sumo does a lot of things the same way they’ve done for hundreds of years, we’ve come a long way with sports nutrition and rehab techniques. Good to hear someone is treating their people more like athletes than cattle.

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