Sign in to follow this  
Kintamayama

Preparations of the masses -Kyushu 2017

Recommended Posts

Kintamayama    18,154

Oonoshou is training seriously for Kyushu. Today he faced new Juryo Takanoshou for 26 matches, winning 22. When he used slap-down techniques his Oyakata was all over him. "You get zero points for that kind of sumo!!" he roared. Most of the time, he was sharpening his tsuki/oshi skills. He does not intend to go for degeiko at all before the basho. He did a lot of butsugari and was all sandy. "If I do this, my own style will not crumble. I faced many rikishi during the jungyo so I'm patient. My condition is good.." he said.

If I may humbly interject here- before the last two bashos he trained with the best till the end. He's feeling overconfident, and I see a makekoshi here. BIG mistake.

 

阿武咲、九州場所へ自信たっぷり「焦りは全くない」

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dada78641    145
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Today he faced new Juryo Takanoshou for 26 matches, winning 22.

Please tell me if Takanoshou ever goes kyuujou mid-basho, you will make a taka no-show joke...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Akinomaki    14,566

The NSK today put the focus on Onomatsu-beya - and there on Onosho

DN1LhpIU8AEGLmI.jpg:thumbo DN1LTJQVAAEsyf6.jpg:thumbo DN1LESpVQAAlEAg.jpg:thumbo DN1K1qgU8AAJkYS.jpg:thumbo DN1Km_VUIAA6Jvl.jpg:thumbo DN1KYUOVAAAq7NY.jpg:thumbo DN1J7EzUIAA9epm.jpg:thumbo DN1JtVMVwAEBUro.jpg:thumbo DN1JduGVAAA3TUl.jpg:thumbo DN1Jd-zUIAA28HL.jpg:thumbo DN1JeR3UQAATC9j.jpg:thumbo DN1JPGaVQAEaTUJ.jpg:thumbo DN1JCSrVQAAa3em.jpg:thumbo DN1JCwKUQAAHpmP.jpg:thumbo

the papers have him as well

b_10706928.jpgo b_10706937.jpgo 20171105s00005000289000p_thum.jpgo

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154
21 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The NSK today put the focus on Onomatsu-beya - and there on Onosho

 

b_10706928.jpgo o 20171105s00005000289000p_thum.jpgo

Training against Onogawa Oyakata, former Daidou.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154

The Nishonoseki rengo keiko was held at Oguruma beya under the heavy cloud of Nishonoseki Oyakata being in a coma for the last month after suffering a stroke. Heyagashira (highest ranked heya member) Maegashira 3 Shouhouzan: "During these difficult times the heya has to come together and gambarize." He had 8 bouts against Tamawashi today and will be facing the top guys this coming basho. "I won't be doing anything different than usual. I will try to do better sumo in tomorrow's training session, " he summed

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154

Komusubi Kotoshougiku had a minor scare at the Nishonoseki Rengo Keiko today. While training with Kagayaki and after winning  by oshidashi, he dislocated his left pinky finger and could not continue immediately.  He looked quite dejected at the side of the dohyo as the oyakatas and young guys converged on him. Then some guy yelled that it was OK and everyone went back to their business. He emerged with three of his fingers taped up together  and continued training.  "It was dislocated and bent backwards. But after taping it up, I wanted to do more keiko.. I'm moving well but I need to work on my spirit. My sumo today is like everyone else's. I want to do sumo that only I can do, but I wonder how I can achieve that," he wondered aloud, not satisfied.

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154
On 11/4/2017 at 16:50, dada78641 said:

Please tell me if Takanoshou ever goes kyuujou mid-basho, you will make a taka no-show joke...

Years ago, we had Asanoshou who was gone a lot, so it was pretty much overused..

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandaazuma    736
8 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Years ago, we had Asanoshou who was gone a lot, so it was pretty much overused..

Multiple opportunities with Onosho, though. Or has that already been done fifty times?

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154
3 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

Multiple opportunities with Onosho, though. Or has that already been done fifty times?

He's been at work every day so far, so we haven't had the opportunity. He's the ultimate choice- "Oh??? No show??"

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pandaazuma    736
9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

He's been at work every day so far, so we haven't had the opportunity. He's the ultimate choice- "Oh??? No show??"

Exactly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154

Terunofuji who just lost his Ozeki rank is doubtful for Kyushu. "I have not decided yet if I am an entering or not. All I'm thinking about at the moment is getting better gradually. I will discuss this with my body and my shisho and decide," he said. He did train today, checking out his tachiai, but he said that he cannot exert power in his injured left knee. He needs ten wins to regain his Ozeki rank. "Well, I think I'll probably enter, but.. I have no choice but to go for it.." he summed. Miyabiyama deja-vu?

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yubinhaad    6,378
6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Terunofuji who just lost his Ozeki rank is doubtful for Kyushu. "I have not decided yet if I am an entering or not. All I'm thinking about at the moment is getting better gradually. I will discuss this with my body and my shisho and decide," he said. He did train today, checking out his tachiai, but he said that he cannot exert power in his injured left knee. He needs ten wins to regain his Ozeki rank. "Well, I think I'll probably enter, but.. I have no choice but to go for it.." he summed. Miyabiyama deja-vu?


Well, they say no news is good news, but what about deleted news? There was an article on Nikkan Sports the other day which reported that Terunofuji seemed to be struggling with only a week to go before the basho begins. He had 16 bouts with young Makushita and below rikishi and finished with an even 8-8 record, including two separate runs of three straight losses. After resting for half an hour, he went back for some more bouts against Takarafuji, finishing 2-6 that time.

The article was later removed, but you can see it via Google Cache here.

  • Thanks 5
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yubinhaad    6,378

And while I'm here, shin-Juryo Takanosho has been breaking in his first sekitori shimekomi ahead of the basho, a darkish red colour.


Takanosho.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Akinomaki    14,566
16 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

The article was later removed, but you can see it via Google Cache here.

It was already gone when I downloaded it from the search results - the pic seems to be gone for good though

The whole set of Chiganoura pics

DN6IWPlVAAANRG7.jpg:thumbo DN6CcQMVAAAMOtM.jpg:thumbo DN6CcQNUQAA_jhK.jpg:thumbo DN6CEiVVQAAQnD7.jpg:thumbo DN6CEiaV4AATml4.jpg:thumbo DN6Bp55UMAAXyJ3.jpg:thumbo DN6Bp5pUIAAZQu1.jpg:thumbo DN6BHsTVwAAKdBQ.jpg:thumbo DN6BHsTUMAAq1K2.jpg:thumbo DN6BHsTVQAEvHS1.jpg:thumbo DN6BHsTUIAEZdSl.jpg:thumbo

DOBuFtFUIAA96Ys.jpg:thumbo DOBuFtFVwAY1KDE.jpg:thumbo DOBt1FzV4AEMsmM.jpg:thumbo DOBt1FuVwAAI6YJ.jpg:thumbo DOBtd6pVQAEhtTI.jpg:thumbo DOBs_rFUMAARleH.jpg:thumbo DOBsyO5VAAADOXy.jpg:thumbo DOBsyO7UMAA_UVo.jpg:thumbo DOBsyO5VAAILrmN.jpg:thumbo 

and a few more from Kagamiyama-beya on degeiko

DN1YCt2U8AIwcAU.jpg:thumbo DN1YD8bUMAA1IGQ.jpg:thumbo

Aminishiki had an article on Mainichi as the oldest returnee to makuuchi and the last sekitori from the 20th century - 4th most makuuchi basho with his 95th in Kyushu - hopefully his ranking and his records will improve further

9.jpgo

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yubinhaad    6,378

Press is reporting that Ura is kyujo for this basho due to his right knee injury.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurowake    1,421

http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20171110-OHT1T50063.html

Looks like Chiyootori ( 千代鳳 ) and Takanoiwa ( 貴ノ岩 ) are also out for day 1.  With Kakuryu and Ura that makes the 4人 in the headline.

Chiyootori joins Jokoryu on the list of former Komusubi going back to Makushita due to injuries well before their prime should be over, but not after trying to tough it out first and probably making the problems worse.

Edited by Gurowake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sekitori    174
2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Chiyootori joins Jokoryu on the list of former Komusubi going back to Makushita due to injuries well before their prime should be over, but not after trying to tough it out first and probably making the problems worse.

I don't understand why a rikishi has to suffer a severe loss of rank because he was injured during a honbasho and couldn't compete in the next one. I always thought the kosho seido rule was very fair, allowing the injured rikishi to keep his rank for the following honbasho. I realize such a rule can be abused but if it's utilized properly,  I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be reinstated. 

Edited by sekitori

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kintamayama    18,154
2 hours ago, sekitori said:

I don't understand why a rikishi has to suffer a severe loss of rank because he was injured during a honbasho and couldn't compete in the next one. I always thought the kosho seido rule was very fair, allowing the injured rikishi to keep his rank for the following honbasho. I realize such a rule can be abused but if it's utilized properly,  I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be reinstated. 

Would it be as simple as that.. It was abused mostly by Ozeki actually and it reached a point where all of us were screaming for it to be abolished. That being said, I predict that within a year, a new system will be in place. Not because someone has seen the light - more because the Kyokai's kanban rikishi are falling one after the other and it is definitely not good for business- Endou, Ura and maybe Enhou- not good that they are not well and will never get well if this goes on as is..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Asashosakari    8,862
1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

It was abused mostly by Ozeki actually and it reached a point where all of us were screaming for it to be abolished.

The ozeki got all the public attention for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the rank-and-file were being blamed behind the scenes as well. Kosho applications were skyrocketing before the debate was kicked off in earnest over the ozeki at the end of 2002.

Kosho by rikishi ranked sekiwake to juryo:

1995 - 5
1996 - 4
1997 - 10
1998 - 9
1999 - 5
2000 - 11
2001 - 17
2002 - 19
2003 - 11

Anyway, the main problem IMHO is that ranking status == salary status, so with the current regulations it's impossible to give a rikishi ranking protection without also paying him in full (which is extremely unusual in individual sport), and in addition every rikishi maintaining his sekitori spot without having to do anything for it keeps somebody else out. The latter could arguably be fixed, the former I doubt.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Akinomaki    14,566

Mitakeumi's plan for the basho is kachi-koshi, so that he has that at all 6 basho this year. And he is no.2 in the list of most wins this year with 45 after leader Harumafuji with 47 - a top class finish is in reach for him. He had rested for 8-10 days because of pain in the body and then till the 7th had 5 days of keiko with sekitori - 81 bouts and he won about 20% of them.

IP171109TAN000046000.jpgo

 

Kokonoe-beya keiko

DOWNVI8UQAEz67g.jpg:thumbo DOWM-EEUMAE7EUP.jpg:thumbo DOWMzgIUMAI1QEX.jpg:thumbo DOWMpL5UIAAOeK0.jpg:thumbo DOWMfk5V4AATsHz.jpg:thumbo DOWMTbwVwAA16Ty.jpg:thumbo DOWL-7JUIAEAYbQ.jpg:thumbo DOWLkrLV4AATS5f.jpg:thumbo DOWLO-WVQAAy6Cy.jpg:thumbo DOWK9oiUMAAlBZO.jpg:thumbo DOWKThoUEAAYNiu.jpg:thumbo DOWJmphVAAAT8L1.jpg:thumbo DOWJmppVAAAij5s.jpg:thumbo DOWJX1_V4AECzhr.jpg:thumbo DOWJX2BUIAcD51z.jpg:thumbo DOWIeuvUIAACXWM.jpg:thumbo

Naruto-beya was for degeiko at Tatsunami-beya for several days

DOJnEPqU8AAa5WC.jpg:thumbo
 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurowake    1,421

So maybe a system where someone could go on injured reserve, and his official banzuke rank would be what it normally would be under today's system, but when he returned to competition, he would be inserted in the rankings for pairing purposes about one basho's absence worth of ranking below where he left instead of however many it took for him to recover, and then his new ranking for next basho would be based on his results in that basho where his banzuke rank and pairing rank were not the same.  If he doesn't manage 4 wins as sekitori or 2 wins as non-sekitori, he's returned to his official (much lower) banzuke rank. 

So to illustrate:

Ozeki gets injured, goes on reserve.  Next basho is ranked & paid as Sekiwake, next basho as Maegashira, next basho as Juryo, next as Makushita.  Then returns, is paired as though he's a Sekiwake.  If he gets 10 wins, he's back up to Ozeki.  If he has a reasonable MK, he stays near the top of the division, but if he totally bombs out he actually heads to Makushita.

Something like that at least, if not in detail.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurowake    1,421

The point being that people can take multiple basho off with only a one basho hit to their ranking, and they have to balance not getting paid as much with needing to do decently on return to return to their previous status.  Doesn't help much for those that need only one basho off, so maybe if someone's off only one basho it's only a demotion in pairing rank by half as much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Asashosakari    8,862
1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

So maybe a system where someone could go on injured reserve, and his official banzuke rank would be what it normally would be under today's system, but when he returned to competition, he would be inserted in the rankings for pairing purposes about one basho's absence worth of ranking below where he left instead of however many it took for him to recover, and then his new ranking for next basho would be based on his results in that basho where his banzuke rank and pairing rank were not the same.  If he doesn't manage 4 wins as sekitori or 2 wins as non-sekitori, he's returned to his official (much lower) banzuke rank. 

So to illustrate:

Ozeki gets injured, goes on reserve.  Next basho is ranked & paid as Sekiwake, next basho as Maegashira, next basho as Juryo, next as Makushita.  Then returns, is paired as though he's a Sekiwake.  If he gets 10 wins, he's back up to Ozeki.  If he has a reasonable MK, he stays near the top of the division, but if he totally bombs out he actually heads to Makushita.

Something like that at least, if not in detail.

That's along the lines I've been brainstorming as well. The biggest practical issue (other than it being "weird" when a makushita-or-lower guy gets a sekitori torikumi) is probably that things could get very crunched if there are multiple returnees in the same basho and you suddenly have, say, 73 rikishi battling over the 70 makuuchi/juryo spots on the next banzuke even before any promotions from makushita have been considered.

I do think there needs to be a reasonable ranking penalty; my preference would be to reinstate long-time absent makuuchi rikishi as bottom-juryo equivalent, juryo rikishi as Ms15-equivalent. The devil is in the details, of course.

Edited by Asashosakari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gurowake    1,421
Just now, Asashosakari said:

(other than it being "weird" when a makushita-or-lower guy gets a sekitori torikumi)

You'd just have to use a provisional ranking when listing his matches instead of his official ranking.  It's not all that much different than TD starters now except they're actually on the banzuke - just somewhere else.

1 minute ago, Asashosakari said:

The biggest practical issue is probably that things could get very crunched if there are multiple returnees in the same basho and you suddenly have, say, 73 rikishi who need to be squeezed into 70 makuuchi/juryo spots on the next banzuke even before any promotions from makushita have been considered.

Obviously this is a significant concern, especially considering what happened when Sokokurai was reinstated - add even more rikishi and you'd get some very unfortunate results.  The best way around this I think is to allow the number of makuuchi and sekitori to float a bit more, with 42 and 70 just being the targets, and having them make an attempt to have those be the average numbers over extended periods of time. Or even have them be just minimums and deal with the fact they have to shell out more money.  (By the way, this made me look up why they haven't gotten any raises for something like 15 or more years, and https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/consumer-price-index-cpi shows prices in Japan to basically have not risen at all over that time frame.)  That then raises the question if they'd be willing to float more people in situations like the Juryo/Makushita line this most recent banzuke.  Regardless, it would probably mean that there would be far less lucky promotions as they would look for ways to justify evening out the amounts over a long period of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this