Bumpkin

Harumafuji Intai Speculation

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I have started this thread so we can speculate as to whether or not Harumafuji will intai soon. Either during or immediately after this Wacky Aki basho. The look on his face after losing today seemed to say, "It's over." He is currently 6-4 and has lost to 4 Maegashira. He will face M6e Ichinojo (6-4) tomorrow. If he losses that match, I believe he will intai. Even if he wins that bout, it will be difficult for him to get 10 wins. He will then have K1e Tamawashi (4-6), S1w Yoshikaze (6-4) and S1e Mitakeuni (5-5) before facing O1w Goeido (9-1) on Day 15. Comments, anyone.

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I assume you mean kyujo vice intai. There was probably a rock, paper, scissors game between the 4 yokozuna before the basho to see who would get stuck doing the daily yokozuna dohyo-iri.  Harumafuji lost.  His heart is not in it.

Edited by Asojima

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5 minutes ago, Asojima said:

I assume you mean kyujo vice intai.

No. Intai. Retirement. I believe Harumafuji has reached the end of the road. He is 33 years old. He has been active since January 2001. Go forth into that good night, Davaanyam Byambadorj. Go forth.

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3 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

No. Intai. Retirement. I believe Harumafuji has reached the end of the road. He is 33 years old. He has been active since January 2001. Go forth into that good night, Davaanyam Byambadorj. Go forth.

I prefer "do not go gentle into that good night"...

Despite not being healthy, here he is working his ass off while his fellow yokozuna are recovering from their injuries. It's only fair that he gets to sit out the next one (although I doubt he will ever be back to full strength, even if he takes two bashos off).

Edited by dada78641
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If his body is telling him "that's it", then yeah, he could be quitting at a moment's notice. But it's not like they'll push him out at this point. He's only failed to complete one basho in the last two years, and has won 11+ in most tournaments during that stretch - there were some intai rumblings after that one withdrawal in January, but that was before Kisenosato's much hoped-for promotion turned so sour and before Kakuryu was revealed as even more damaged than Harumafuji.

So, I don't see it happening just yet.

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9 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

If his body is telling him "that's it", then yeah, he could be quitting at a moment's notice. But it's not like they'll push him out at this point.

That, of course, is what I'm speculating about. Harumafuji "looks" like he is done.

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I think it is way too soon to speculate about his retirement. imho he doesn't look done.
Of course he can decide to call it a day at any time, and he is under pressure to perform and not hand out any more kinboshis, but he is not under pressure to perform-or-else like Kakuryu is at the moment. So he will not be forced to retire just yet.

Let's just see what happens.

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I'm willing to be wrong about this, but he seems to do better against people he's faced lots of times. Most of the people he's got left fall into that category, so I bet he'll finish just fine. His clock is ticking down, but he's still got a while yet.

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His injury issues don't really seem much out of line with what they've generally been during his yokozuna tenure. He is still usually delivering double digit win tournaments, and really hasn't been doing too poorly. That said, he is 33, and is currently on his longest yokozuna stretch of no yusho or jun-yusho. Intai is probably going to happen within the next few years, but I don't get a strong impression that it's imminent.

Edited by Katooshu
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His elbow is painful after every bout but his sumo is still aggressive and he has fighting spirit. Of course if he didn't show fighting spirit that would be so out of character that then he'd surely be at the end. With both knees, both ankles and both elbows affected he surely knows aches and pains. He has lost power but is still dynamic and fast.

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Its probably coming soon but I don't think right after this Basho. Would be weird after being the only Yokozuna to even participate.

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His record over the last two years or so has actually been not too bad. It would seem odd for him to pull the plug after this particular basho. But yokozuna can and do retire suddenly so it's not out of the question.

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Harumafuji doesn't look in great shape this basho, but, as the only yokozuna competing, he seems to be staying in this basho for the sake of sumo and the paying customers. I don't see any reason he'd go intai now, or even be criticized for a poor record, under this circumstance.

I've been concerned about Harumafuji going intai every year since 2013, and, happily, he continues to exceed expectations. His injuries don't seem to ever fully heal, and he's almost 33 1/2 now. I guess it's hard to see how he'll still be competing after 2018, but on the other hand, none of the yokozuna are under 31 and I wouldn't be surprised to see one - or two - of them retire before he does. At least I hope so - long live Ama!

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I wouldn't think he'll retire this basho or immediately after. By carrying the burden of being the sole Yokozuna this basho he's earned himself some points from the kyokai that'll allow him to sit out the next basho if needed. 

Edited by dingo

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He has had a look of dejection that I haven't seen from him during my short time watching sumo. Looking at his recent records however,

  • 13-2: Nagoya 2016
  • 12-3: Aki 2016
  • 11-4: Kyushu 2016
  • 4-3-8: Hatsu 2017
  • 10-5: Haru 2017
  • 11-4: Natsu 2017
  • 11-4: Nagoya 2017

Even 10-5 is respectable in my opinion in an era where we have 4 Y and 3 O. If he were the only Yokozuna consistently and putting up 10 and 11 win records, then sure that is really alarming. But having 4/5 losses among such steep competition is still quality.

This basho might be the start of there being serious concern, as he is the only Yokozuna present and was expected to be in the yusho race to the end. I wouldn't call him done yet.

There is a small chance he goes intai this basho, but my guess is it happens some time in 2018.

 

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He's being forced to compete by the NSK as the least damaged Yokozuna.  Practically or literally, we can't know, but it would be a severe problem if they had all 4 Yokozuna injured at the same time.  With how contrite they are being after having 3 not start the basho, can you imagine what it would be like with all 4 on the sidelines?  They aren't going to particularly hold this basho against him.  Whether he'll retire is more based on whether he thinks he can sufficiently heal to be able to get back to 10 wins regularly, and that's not something we can know.  We can speculate, sure.  I speculate not after this basho, but more than likely by the end of 2018.

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While retirement is arguably on the table for any of the four current Yokozunas, Harumafuji proved his mettle by winning this tournament despite a horrible start.  The fact that he has told the press that he has his sights set on double-digit yushos (i.e., 10), I suspect he is not actively contemplating snipping his mage just yet.  If anything, he can derive confidence from his latest victory.  If Harumafuji does in fact retire before the end of 2018 (as suggested by Gurowake), I feel that at least one of the other Yokozunas will retire before him.

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21 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 If Harumafuji does in fact retire before the end of 2018 (as suggested by Gurowake), I feel that at least one of the other Yokozunas will retire before him.

I continue to believe that Kakuryu will be first to go. His performance is the weakest of the three (discounting Kisenosato from this discussion as I don't expect his retirement soon and he's only been yokozuna for a short while) and he appears to be under the most pressure to get it together. Combine that with injury troubles that appear to be neverending and I expect him to retire sooner rather than later.

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Not having followed the sport long enough to see a yokozuna retire, I should just keep my mouth shut, but no... I'm a minor Harumafuji fan. He really got his act together by mid-basho, and pretty much man handled the competition, including the skillful dispatching of Goeido twice on the final day. I hope he makes it to 10 and Hakuho to 40 before we see the last of them. Kakuryu, if not well recovered by November, I expect to retire over the winter, maybe before the January basho.

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For Harumafuji, with his recent yusho, he will not retire even he has to withdraw the Nov. basho. But for Kakuryu and Kisenosato, if they withdraw again, kakuryu will be forced to retire and Kisenosato in great danger. However, base on what the YDC said, both of them do not have to attend the Nov. basho but continue to heal.

The healthiest yokozuna is Hakuho. He will add a few more yusho/zensho to his records and reach makuuchi 1000 wins.

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On 19.9.2017 at 18:11, Bumpkin said:

No. Intai. Retirement. I believe Harumafuji has reached the end of the road. He is 33 years old. He has been active since January 2001. Go forth into that good night, Davaanyam Byambadorj. Go forth.

I am so glad that it isnt forced on him yet, because I feel he wants to go on for a long time even if his performance is not stellar.

I think he shares a similar mentality to Aminishki (same heya) who will probably be in makuuchi at age 40+

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On 2017/9/28 at 18:14, SumpaX said:

I am so glad that it isnt forced on him yet, because I feel he wants to go on for a long time even if his performance is not stellar.

I think he shares a similar mentality to Aminishki (same heya) who will probably be in makuuchi at age 40+

As long as he can perform no worse than Kisenosato, he is safe. Same for Kakuryu.

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Huhuhu, I supposed that the Japanese have forgotten about Haru Basho. 

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Now let's hope Kakuryuu can redeem himself too.

UoLKY4c

(Pic: Kakuryuu vs Tochinowaka, Haru 2014)

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