Asashosakari

Double-checking the Sumo DB's names of foreign rikishi - United States

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Asashosakari    8,528
6 hours ago, Fukurou said:

Is this list all US-born rikishi or just the ones you have questions about?

Only the ones I thought in need of attention, but it's totally possible I missed out on some because their current data looked plausible enough to not dig deeper. I've added the link to the DB's full list of American-shusshin rikishi at the top of the starting post if anyone wants to have a look themselves.
 

Quote

Ancestry has info for Vincent F DEVOUX, but the DB says Shinnishiki's name is Vincent DIVOUX. I assume it's the same person.DEVOUX is given in the California state birth record, a high school yearbook photo, and a 1996 public record. The birth record also has him born 10 Jan 1970 (DB says 10 Feb 1970.

It looks like either the non-Hawaiian rikishi didn't receive much attention at the time, or Californian newspapers aren't well-represented in the Newspapers.com archives. No hits on Shinnishiki there, and only two on his name - one from June 1988 in a Hawaiian paper on his recruiting by Konishiki (as DEVOUX), and another from the Detroit Free Press of all places on a bout result of his in March 1990 (as DIVOUX). 

I'm not fully positive if the guy you found on Ancestry is him, but it's close enough - is it a Los Angeles-area high school? 

Edited by Asashosakari

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Asashosakari    8,528

For completeness, the American rikishi I didn't mention originally:

Hiraga - I see now that the Wikipedia list (I hadn't looked at that early during the US check yet) gives an unsourced name of Shoji HIRAGA for him.

Takamiyama - oops, just spotted a bit of a difference, the DB says WALANI while his Wiki article has it as WAILANI. (And I'm not sure if the hyphen belongs.)

Muryu

Konishiki

Akebono - Wikipedia has a fuller name that may be worth adding to the DB. Looks to be sourced from a 1992 book. No "George" in there, by the way, which as mentioned up-thread is frequently attached to his name as well. (Is there a source for that?)

Sentoryu

Shinnishiki - discussion right above this post.

Musashimaru

Taikai - discussed after the opening post

Daiki - the full name was verified from his obituary at one point, I believe.

Kagamifuji

Musashikuni

Edited by Asashosakari

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Asashosakari    8,528
On 12.9.2017 at 21:30, Asashosakari said:

Takamishu - contemporary coverage looks to have started with Taylor WILY, then later moved largely to Taylor WILEY (as in the DB), then post-career coverage seems to be WILY again. He has recent TV and movie credits as Taylor WILY, and I tend to think that's the correct spelling. By the way, all the newspaper coverage gave his shikona as Takamikuni - is it at all possible that the DB has the shikona wrong...? (I see this issue was previously discussed but didn't go anywhere.)

The earliest coverage of his recruiting and maezumo gives a full name of Taylor Tee WILY...that middle part doesn't seem to appear anywhere afterwards, so I'm not sure if that's perhaps just a nickname or something?

Incidentally, those articles also make the interesting claim that he came to Japan only three days before his first professional match (arrived on Friday, maezumo on Monday), which I find a bit hard to believe...

Edited by Asashosakari

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Fukurou    334
1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

I'm not fully positive if the guy you found on Ancestry is him, but it's close enough - is it a Los Angeles-area high school? 

Wilmington is a neighborhood near Los Angeles harbor, that's where the high school is. The kid in the 1986 yearbook photo is a big guy, even compared to the teacher (Vincent would be 15-16). The 1996 public records info has him living in a different area nearby. To save you looking it up, Shinnishiki's sumo areer was betwen 1988-1990. I can try to get the photo if you want.

Edited by Fukurou
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Fukurou    334
56 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Akebono - Wikipedia has a fuller name that may be worth adding to the DB. Looks to be sourced from a 1992 book. No "George" in there, by the way, which as mentioned up-thread is frequently attached to his name as well. (Is there a source for that?)

I don't recall where (Wikipedia?) but I saw his name somewhere as Chad George Rowan.

 

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Washuyama    377
On 9/12/2017 at 14:30, Asashosakari said:

Matsuryuyama - A Washington Post article that confirms the Robert and SUETSUGU parts of the name. I think Masao can also be considered confirmed - I won't link to it because it contains personally identifying information, but a Google search for "Robert Masao Suetsugu" points to an entry in one of those public information databases, for a person of that name with the correct age and area of residence (Washington State).

Wakayashima - referred to as Reid ASATO pretty much everywhere, so I think the DB has it the wrong way around.

Wakatakami - "PULAIAN" appears to be way off, but that's only half of the story. His name is variously given as George BRIAN, George BRYAN or George BRYN, later on also as Bryn GEORGE. In addition, there's a 1987 film credit for a sumo wrestler cameo for a Bryn GEORGE. I'm tempted to believe that Bryn GEORGE is in fact the correct version, because that's the name the Honolulu Advertiser used in its report about his retirement ceremony, and I would hope they knew the correct name by that point.

 

I remember reading in Sumo World back in the 70s/80s about these three.  If it will help the research, I can look through and find it.  I distinctly recall a picture of Takamiyama and Bryn George when the latter was a shin-deshi.  (Jesse was 6'3 and Bryn was MAYBE 5'9)

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Fukurou    334

Asashosakari, I stumbled across another record related to Vincent F Devoux - a marriage record from 2002 in Clark County, Nevada (Las Vegas). This Vincent is still living in California, but the thing is it gives a middle name, or at least what the "F" stands for:  Vincent Faamanatug Devoux.  Also, the yearbook photo, I just noticed, is for the members of the school's Polynesian Club. Vincent is 3rd row from front, 4th guy from the left.

poly club.jpg

Edited by Fukurou

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Yamanashi    5

On Shoji Hiraga, Ancestry.com has the following (remembering that it could be another person ... ):

California Birth Index: Shoji Hiraga, born 9/29/1913; mother's maiden name Tyoynaga (these names are notoriously unreliable)

1930 Census: Shoji Hiraga, 16, living at 231 Jackson St., Los Angeles, CA.  Father Togoro, 55, runs pool hall; mother Roku, 46, midwife.

California Passenger Lists: arrived from Yokohama to L.A. on April 8, 1937 (did he attend the 1937.5 basho where he was listed as intai?)

Japanese American Relocation List: "Shoji Joe Hiraga", b. 9/29/15; Gila River, Tule Lake camps; resident 7/29/42 to 3/7/46

Soc. Sec. Death Index: "Joe Shoji Hiraga"; b. 9/29/1913, d. 5/6/1979

 

So, Shoji Joe Hiraga?

 

 

 

 

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shimodahito    131

I've been following sumo since chihiyonofuji & jesse days and had no idea there were this many americans in sumo.  this is a very eye-opening thread.

 

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Yamanashi    5

John Robert Collins (Wakanonanda, Muryu)

 

various birthdates (12/15/59, 12/12/59)

moved to Las Vegas area; died 12/5/2011 in Henderson, NV

He kept up with U. of Hawaii football and blogged extensively; there is a picture of him in 2009 on a visit back to Hawaii, and a photo of (I think) the Haru 1979 basho after he defeated Hanada.

 

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What happened with the two American brothers from the mainland who entered Sumo out of high school sometime within the last 5-10 years?

I seem to recall that the mother was Japanese, the father was American & they were high school wrestlers. I remember reading about them when they were leaving for Japan & lost track of them. I can't even remember their names now.

Information will be greatly appreciated.

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52 minutes ago, Naganoyama said:

Yes, that's them!

I thought that I recalled that they were born in the USA & entered Sumo after high school. Maybe they were raised in the states?

It's disappointing to see that one of them has retired. Do you know the reason? Do you know what he's doing now?

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Naganoyama    1,921

This is where his retirement is announced. There are pictures of his danpatsu-shiki further down. I don't have any specific knowledge about his case but I guess he had originally hoped that he would make it to sekitori and felt he had run out of time.

A search on 'Saito twins' might yield additional information. (Searching on the shikona will give lots of hits on scoreboards).

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ryafuji    180

Here's the full list of Americans mentioned in Grand Sumo by Lora Sharnoff:

Takamiyama (Jesse James Walani Kuhaulua)

Takamikuni (source for the shikona!) - Taylor Wiley

Akebono - Chadwick George Haheo Rowan (source for George)

Takamio - John Feleunga

Ozora - Troy Talaimatai

Wakataisei - Percy Kitapa

Konishiki - Salevaa Atisanoe

Musashimaru - Fiamalu Penitani

Musashinobo (Musashibo in the DB) - William Molina

Shinnishiki - Vincent Divoux

Sentoryu - Henry Armstrong Miller

Sunahama - William Tyler Hopkins

Koryu - Eric Cosier Gaspar

Nampu - Kaleo Kekauoha

Yamato - George Kalima

Onami - Glen Kalima

 

 

 

 

Edited by ryafuji
minor corrections
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Fukurou    334
12 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Shinnishiki - Vincent Divoux

Did you know that when you Google "Vincent Divoux" and click to see the images that are returned, among the photos is one named "Asahosakari". I guess he's Vincent Divoux in disguise!

OK ok, being serious here. Is anyone looking at this list?
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/User:Miwasatoshi/List_of_non-Japanese_sumo_wrestlers

 

Edited by Fukurou

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ryafuji    180
11 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

Did you know that when you Google "Vincent Divoux" and click to see the images that are returned, among the photos is one named "Asahosakari". I guess he's Vincent Divoux in disguise!

OK ok, being serious here. Is anyone looking at this list?
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/User:Miwasatoshi/List_of_non-Japanese_sumo_wrestlers

 

That's a Wikipedia mirror site - both Asashosakari and I have been looking at the original, which is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Japanese_sumo_wrestlers. Unfortunately it is lacking in citations and cannot be in any way regarded as definitive.

Edited by ryafuji
typo
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ryafuji    180
14 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Really Kitapa?

Unfortunately, yes.

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Yamanashi    5
3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Unfortunately, yes.

Maybe no.

 

Several news stories about his death in May 2005 give his name as "Percy Pomaikai Kipapa", including his obituary.  Mark Panek, the author who wrote "Gaijin Yokozuna" about Akebono, also wrote a book about Kipapa called "Big Happiness: the Life and Death of a Modern Hawaiian Warrior."  (Daiki = "Big Happiness")

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ryafuji    180

 

20 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Maybe no.

 

Several news stories about his death in May 2005 give his name as "Percy Pomaikai Kipapa", including his obituary.  Mark Panek, the author who wrote "Gaijin Yokozuna" about Akebono, also wrote a book about Kipapa called "Big Happiness: the Life and Death of a Modern Hawaiian Warrior."  (Daiki = "Big Happiness")

Oh yes I'm virtually certain that it's Kipapa. I was just confirming that Kitapa was the spelling in my book and not a typo on my part.

Edited by ryafuji

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Gurowake    1,393
3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

 

Oh yes I'm virtually certain that it's Kipapa. I was just confirming that Kitapa was the spelling in my book and not a typo on my part.

And so you're basically confirming that what the book says is relatively meaningless?

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Yamanashi    5
4 hours ago, ryafuji said:

 

Oh yes I'm virtually certain that it's Kipapa. I was just confirming that Kitapa was the spelling in my book and not a typo on my part.

OK, gotcha

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18 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

This is where his retirement is announced. There are pictures of his danpatsu-shiki further down. I don't have any specific knowledge about his case but I guess he had originally hoped that he would make it to sekitori and felt he had run out of time.

A search on 'Saito twins' might yield additional information. (Searching on the shikona will give lots of hits on scoreboards).

Thank you for the information.   (KaioU...)

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ryafuji    180
10 hours ago, Gurowake said:

And so you're basically confirming that what the book says is relatively meaningless?

No, it's not confirming anything of the sort. For one thing it confirms William Molina for Musashibo. Most of the others back up Asashosakari's research. One (probable) typo shouldn't invalidate everything else. 

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