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Basho Talk - Aki 2017 (SPOILERS)

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Andreas21    119

Thanks for the discussion on the Kotoshogiku-Harumafuji bout. I think all the technical aspects have been mentioned and, in the flow of events, either decision (matta or the win) would have made sense.

I just would like to add an additional perspective, of the spectator. My initial reaction was to mutter simply "bullshit".

I mean, we despise henka as it robs us seeing a real fight. Makes perfectly sense.

But this is far worse. Just nuisance, nothing else, a reflection of ambiguous rules and failure to enforce them in a consistent way. This is the goyis fault, finally the Kyokai's.

I'd rather like to see 20 henkas, 20 uninspired leaning contests by Tenkaiho, Sadanofuji and the like. I mean henka is a very short fight - but a fight at least.

 

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Asashosakari    8,528

Ultimately it was still Harumafuji's fault, though. You battle until the gyoji or a shimpan stays "stop", simply because 100% consistent application of the rules will never happen (in any sport), and it's foolish to rely on that as a competitor. Even moreso when you were the guy who caused the "situation" in the first place.

Anyway, if that bout gets a few other rikishi to think twice before employing tactical matta in the future, it was a small price to pay for improved entertainment value later on.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Andreas21    119
4 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Ultimately it was still Harumafuji's fault, though.

Sure, in this bout. I was talking from a wider perspective, all the gyojis decisions on that matter put together.

I think, Harumafuji's main fault was the attempt to force the gyoji towards a decision. This is not wise - in any sports.

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Nice win for my boy Kagayaki. Mitakiumi getting pushed back all the time so far. Ishura just good forward sumo against a monster...very strong.  Chiotairyu having a good basho, extra weight looking good on him. Onosho and Hokotofuji looking really solid. Kotoshugiku...shhhh

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Kintamayama    17,513

The gyoji may have made a mistake, but the head shinpan calls mattas all the time. The camera focused on yesterday's head shinpan at extreme closeup, to see if he had anything to say. He didn't. He could have called a matta. So the gyoji is not the only address for your concerns.

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Dwale    174

Look at that leader board. Look at it. WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUU *is shot* 

All I can really say here is that I'm glad I don't gamble.

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Thundersnow    30

Enjoyed watching Kagayaki push Tak into the second row. And, Dwale is correct, not a good basho to putting down wagers.

Will the purple rain continue? I'm liking Onosho's chances of scoring a big basho, and at leastmoving up into sanyaku turf.

Ishiura was awesome today. Sugoi katta desu

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RabidJohn    234

It's way too early to be calling the result, but of the currently undefeated rikishi I fancy Onosho's chances the most. He just looks better and better all the time; his timing is superb and his confidence must be rising. Has anyone ever taken the yusho in only their 3rd makuuchi basho?

None of the Y/O still in it look like they have a chance. Far from looking like he can take the yusho, I think Terunofuji will be lucky if he can keep his rank for Fukuoka. Goeido looks more like he can KK, but his reliance on henka suggests all is far from well. After playing silly buggers on day 3, Harumafuji at least looked like he remembered he was a yokozuna today and almost got the win, but the immensely talented Hokutofuji was there to remind everybody of what we've been discussing on this forum all year (and what Nobel Literature Laureate Mr Zimmermann told us long ago): the times they are a-changing. I reckon HRF will finish with his usual 10-11 wins.

I don't know what's happened to that erstwhile stable sanyaku line-up - they are all losing when they shouldn't. Mitakeumi 1-3 against all lower ranked opponents... including Tamawashi, who he'd never lost to! WTF? I wouldn't be surprised to see all of them lose their places now, with Onosho, Chiyotairyu and Hokutofuji moving up to replace them.

Ah well, I've been following ozumo long enough now to know that I should expect the unexpected.

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dada78641    95
12 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Basically, you can't claim it should have been a matta if you're the one who jumped the gun.  You shouldn't be looking for a matta call if you jump first - you should only be stopping *if* the matta is called by the gyoji.  That it may have been a tactical matta that ended up not being a matta sounds reasonable.

Ah, I see, now it makes perfect sense. Thanks! (The way that was phrased earlier was a bit confusing to me.)

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Kintamayama    17,513

Steak time- I don't believe any of the young ones will yusho. The minute it hits them that they have a real chance, they will fall apart mentally. Starting tomorrow.  I don't believe Harumafuji will finish the basho. If Kotoshougiku's knees hold up, it looks like he will do it. Or Terunofuji. I still believe in Terunofuji.

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dada78641    95

Really fantastic match by Hokutofuji. I remember when he just joined the makunouchi, he had the moves of a veteran. I went back to his older matches in jonokuchi and he's basically just a very talented rikishi. Like Ura and the others from this crop of excellent newcomers. This particular basho is so strange, with so many big shots either pulling out or being not at their best, that some of these guys could be serious yusho contenders. Onosho is one, and Hokutofuji has now cleared everybody ozeki and above with this latest win.

By the way, does anyone know if Mitakeumi is injured? He's just not there this tournament. Got pushed out like a lightweight just now. Very far from the Mitakeumi who pushed out Hakuho last basho...

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Chijanofuji    51
18 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

It's way too early to be calling the result, but of the currently undefeated rikishi I fancy Onosho's chances the most. He just looks better and better all the time; his timing is superb and his confidence must be rising. Has anyone ever taken the yusho in only their 3rd makuuchi basho?

Yes, in the modern era (since the yusho system was established in June 1909) it happened 3 times that a rikishi won the yusho in only their 3rd Makuuchi basho or even before.

In fact at Natsu 1914 Ryogoku won the yusho in his very first Makuuchi basho ranked at Maegashira 14 East!

At Haru 1922 Tsurugahama won the yusho in his 3rd Makuuchi basho ranked at Maegashira 4 East.

At Natsu 1961 Sadanoyama (later the 50th Yokozuna) won the yusho in his 3rd Makuuchi basho ranked at Maegashira 13 West (you could even say it was actually his 2nd active Makuuchi basho, as he was kyujo (0-0-15) the basho before that.

 

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Jakusotsu    1,563
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Or Terunofuji. I still believe in Terunofuji.

That would be worth two steaks, Sir. Terunofuji is a walking wreck and should rather go to rehab than climb the dohyo.

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Kintamayama    17,513
1 minute ago, Jakusotsu said:

That would be worth two steaks, Sir. Terunofuji is a walking wreck and should rather go to rehab than climb the dohyo.

That's exactly what everyone said about him back in March (13-2 play off loss jun yusho) and May (12-3 jun yusho). Exactly..

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Jakusotsu    1,563

Right. But still, this time he looks different...

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WAKATAKE    735

As they say in Japanese, 大混戦. This basho is all over the place and at this point there is no outright favorite to win. Sure we'll be figuring out who will get it as the basho goes on, but holy moley. This also makes it more exciting though. Harumafuji could always recover, but Goeido and Geek could pull it off too, as they both have yusho experience. Terunofuji? I don't know.

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Andreas21    119
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Steak time- I don't believe any of the young ones will yusho. The minute it hits them that they have a real chance, they will fall apart mentally.

I have to confess, I had Mitakeumi on my list for the Yusho when I found out that only one Yokozuna competes. No doubt, Mitakeumi had it the most among the newcomers, scoring big 9-6 from Sekiwake. As he doesn't seem to be injured, chances are good it hit him mentally as you say!

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Kintamayama    17,513
9 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Right. But still, this time he looks different...

One word- Mojo. He needs to get his Mojo back. It's a fine line between Sekiwake and the yusho at the moment.  Tomorrow is important.

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Asojima    1,696
13 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

One word- Mojo. He needs to get his Mojo back. It's a fine line between Sekiwake and the yusho at the moment.  Tomorrow is important.

He is playing it safe, shooting for his 8 without further injury.  He will have to get very aggressive to shoot for the yusho.  Not this time. 

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Kintamayama    17,513
Just now, Asojima said:

He is playing it safe, shooting for his 8 without further injury.  He will have to get very aggressive to shoot for the yusho.  Not this time. 

Yes, against all odds, but as we say in Corsica- "We shall see.."

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Rob S.    22
On 9/11/2017 at 22:31, Dwale said:

What is up with Mitakeumi? He needs to get it together...

 

Harumafuji absorbed Mitakeumi's fighting spirit with that end of bout nodowa in Nagoya on day 12.

He hasn't been the same since.

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dada78641    95

I have to say, we must be excited for this basho somehow, given that everybody's talking about possible yusho winners on day 4...

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MItakeumi has some sort of neck injury (was mentioned today on NHK sumo) but still he didn't look that bad before today¨s bout against Tamawashi. He even underlined how fired up he was today doing a version of Asashoryu's mawashi slap combined with aggressive moves when going to the salt last time before tachi-ai....

Harumafuji hasn't looked bad in his bouts. Yesterday's balagan has nothing to do with his form and today's loss was not a sign of bad condition. He has carried his injuries for long time and can as easily win a 7.1 second bout as he can 4.9 second bout.

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