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Basho Talk - Aki 2017 (SPOILERS)

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1 hour ago, ALAKTORN said:

I watched Jason’s coverage of the last bout and jesus, the rikishi look completely different in that high definition… Harumafuji has some mad acne(?) and Gōeidō had bruises on his right arm and after the last bout around his right eye. That tachiai got him good.

Be careful about Aoiyama in HD, there's something about that.

 

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On 2017-09-22 at 14:46, Benevolance said:

I will snort my sake if Harumafuji takes this basho from Goeidou. 

Start snorting, my friend! ;-)

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12 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

However, can someone enlighten me on the Mitakeumi hair pulling incident.  He may not have grabbed the chonmage itself, but it was a definite hair pull.  That's still illegal, right?  Would they rectify the call after the tournament?

I heard the NHK (Japanese) commentators spot the possible infraction during the broadcast.  However, if the judges fail to call a mono-ii to review it immediately after the referee makes his decision, then there is no way it will get "rectified", IMHO.  Sumo regulations seem to get summed up as "what's done is done".

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10 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Sumo regulations seem to get summed up as "what's done is done".

As is almost any other sport.

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All in all it was ok. Goueido didn't get an undeserved 2nd Yusho and Ama saved the day. Aminishiki goes back to his rightful place, Kotoshogiku returns to sanyaku. And Kaisei gets 9 wins :-P 

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Congrats to Harumafuji on #9! I don't think we will be seeing an intai over the next couple days :)

Mitakeumi struggled to get his KK, needs to come back improved in November when some of the top rankers will be back.

Welcome back to sanyaku Kotoshogiku!

Welcome back to Makuuchi Aminishki, Kotoyuki, and Myogiru!

 

Another fun and wild basho, with it being the 4th I've followed from day to day since starting following sumo, is this just the norm? It seems like I've only seen one by the numbers normal basho! Looking forward to getting every nugget of jungyo information I can from you fine people while we all eagerly await Kyushu!

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15 minutes ago, Tiger Tanaka said:

Another fun and wild basho, with it being the 4th I've followed from day to day since starting following sumo, is this just the norm? It seems like I've only seen one by the numbers normal basho! Looking forward to getting every nugget of jungyo information I can from you fine people while we all eagerly await Kyushu!

Ho, it wasn't the norm. It seems to be a transactional basho, one of that kind where the old guys started to "drop the mic" and the younglings still green. That and Goeido, for sure.

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35 minutes ago, Tiger Tanaka said:

Congrats to Harumafuji on #9! I don't think we will be seeing an intai over the next couple days :)

Mitakeumi struggled to get his KK, needs to come back improved in November when some of the top rankers will be back.

Welcome back to sanyaku Kotoshogiku!

Welcome back to Makuuchi Aminishki, Kotoyuki, and Myogiru!

 

Another fun and wild basho, with it being the 4th I've followed from day to day since starting following sumo, is this just the norm? It seems like I've only seen one by the numbers normal basho! Looking forward to getting every nugget of jungyo information I can from you fine people while we all eagerly await Kyushu!

When I first started following Sumo, Hakuho won 6 in a row.  It was almost taken for granted every tournament that he'd win.  Some of those he may have won on the last bout of the tournament, but he was always the favorite.  It's nice to get real yusho races with lots of contenders.

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I'll take competitiveness (even if it's wacky) over dominance (even if we get to see flawless Hak sumo) almost every time

Edited by Katooshu
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10 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I watched Jason’s coverage of the last bout and jesus, the rikishi look completely different in that high definition… Harumafuji has some mad acne(?) and Gōeidō had bruises on his right arm and after the last bout around his right eye. That tachiai got him good.

My Japanese neighbour, who gets NHK by satellite, updated her box to HD last year. I knew Takayasu was hairy, but seeing him in HD blew my mind.

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Some top 10 updates:

Career wins:

 - Aminishiki finished the basho at 10-5 to make his total 843 career wins, moving to within 17 of 9th place Terao. Above Terao at 872 is Taiho.

Makuuchi wins:

 - Harumafuji moved to 712 makuuchi wins, passing both Takanohana II and Musashimaru to move into sole 6th place. Next up is Taiho at 746 wins.

Win streak from pro debut:

 - As already discussed plenty of times in this thread, Hakuho protege Enho is 21-0 for his career, tying Kototenzan aka WWF wrestler Earthquake. He will be trying to extend that record for Kyushu and could possibly be trying to clinch juryo promotion as well.

Yokozuna wins:

 - As the sole yokozuna competing this basho, Harumafuji moved up to 285 wins at the top rank, moving to within seven of 10th place Tochinishiki, who has been on the list for 67 years.

Career bouts:

 - Aminishiki has completed 1657 bouts, which moved him three above Takamiyama into sole 6th place. Next up is Wakanosato at 1691 bouts.

Makuuchi bouts:

 - Aminishiki currently sits at 1358 makuuchi bouts and looks to extend that record after the long awaited expected return to the division for Kyushu
 - Takekaze has completed 1212 bouts in makuuchi, moving him to within nine of 8th place Kirinji.

Yokozuna bouts:

 - Harumafuji has completed 386 bouts at the top rank, moving into 10th place and displacing the aforementioned Tochinishiki. Whether he can reach ninth place is a whole other ballgame, because Takanohana II sits in 9th place at 521 bouts. Good luck on that.

Most makuuchi bouts between two rikishi:

 - The quartet that has been making their way onto the list is Hakuho, Harumafuji, Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku. These six pairings make up six of the top seven on the list. However with Hakuho and Kisenosato having gone kyujo this basho, only Harumafuji and Kotoshogiku's pairing got the extension. This pair now sits in sole second place at 62 bouts (excluding fusen) behind Kotoshogiku vs Kisenosato at 64.

Basho in makuuchi:

 - Aminishiki is currently at 94 basho in makuuchi and will be looking to spend a 95th basho in the top division with his expected return in Kyushu.
 - This was Takekaze's 83rd basho in makuuchi, moving into sole tenth place and knocking former ozeki Miyabiyama off the list. Unless we see a retirement from him between now and Kyushu, he will be in makuuchi for the 84th time in Kyushu, and will be looking to tie former Kirinji.
 - Hakuho became the third active rikishi this basho to have 80+ basho ranked in makuuchi.

Basho as yokozuna

 - This was Hakuho's 61st basho at the top rank. He moves to within two of #1 Kitanoumi.
 - This was Harumafuji's 30th basho at the top rank. He moves to within two of #10 Chiyonoyama, who has been on the list for 68 years.

Basho as sanyaku (both ranks combined)

 - This was Tochiozan's 25th basho in the sanyaku ranks and moves him to within one of 9th placers Takatoriki and Wakanosato.

Basho as sekitori

 - This was Aminishiki's 106th basho as a sekitori, moving him into a three way tie with Oshio and Wakanosato for 4th place. Up next is Terao at 110 basho.

Basho career all-time:

 - This was Hanakaze's 189th basho as a rikishi. He continues to extend the all-time record he once shared with Hokutoryu, who retired back in Haru.
 - This was Kyokuhikari's 153rd basho as a rikishi. He moves to within one of 8th placers Kotokanyu and Kimenryu.

Kinboshi winners:

 - Hokutofuji (2nd)
 - Kotoshogiku (1st)
 - Onosho (1st)
 - Takakeisho (1st)

Kinboshi losses:

 - Harumafuji as the sole yokozuna this basho suffered four losses, all to maegashira. He moves into a three way tie with Wajima and Takanohana II for most kinboshi losses with 39. Will his career last long enough to "pass" Kitanoumi who had 53?

Sandanme TD makuuchi debut:

 - As only one of two sandanme tsukedashi rikishi, Asanoyama automatically got onto the list having taken 9 basho to get to the top division, and fared a lot better in his top division debut than his fellow debutante, Yutakayama.

Makushita TD juryo debut:

 - Yago became the 10th makushita tsukedashi to take only two basho to make it to juryo, however that celebration may be short lived as he could be headed back to the lower division for Kyushu.

And last but not least:

 - Orora "surpassed" Konishiki after tipping the scales at 288.8 KG to become the heaviest rikishi of all time.

 

Full list here:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/37032-top-10-sumo-records-aki-2017-edition/

 

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13 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I watched Jason’s coverage of the last bout and jesus, the rikishi look completely different in that high definition… Harumafuji has some mad acne(?) and Gōeidō had bruises on his right arm and after the last bout around his right eye. That tachiai got him good.

I dare to say his acne situation was way worse, it got a lot better (just saying) but you are right he had it for a long time. Now whats left are mostly scars.

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On 22/9/2017 at 21:46, Benevolance said:

 Goeidou

 

8 hours ago, bettega said:

Goueido

You two should join forces.

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15 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

Harumafuji has some mad acne(?)

 

2 hours ago, SumpaX said:

I dare to say his acne situation was way worse, it got a lot better (just saying) but you are right he had it for a long time. Now whats left are mostly scars.

 

The typical side effects of steroids. The younger Ama didn't had some. Then, with the success in makuuchi, he somehow gain alot weight for such a slim bodytype, become (temporary) a little bit vicious on the dohyo and he showed some acne. As a fan of Ockhams razor I prefer the obvious explanation.

I don't think that he is still using it, but I am sure that he once "boosted" his career with some help from the medicine cabinet.

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6 hours ago, Tsubame said:

The younger Ama didn't had some.

Yes he did. This is from his jonokuchi yusho in 2001:

7ee3c259.gif

 

That's some pretty bad acne right there. You can even see some on his chest, although it's not as obvious as his face. He was still a couple of weeks away from turning 17 years old at the time.

Edited by Kuroyama
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I've refrained from commenting on the outcome of wacky Aki until I'd seen Mr Mensing's upload to YT of the NKH highlights show, with it's HD, English commentary, and both sansho and yusho interviews.

First I want to congratulate Onosho on his historic 3rd straight 10-5 from makuuchi debut. Some may think he had a bit of an easier time of it due to the absence of so many Y/O, but I prefer to believe he was merely denied the opportunity to score multiple kinboshi! I've watched Mitakeumi, Shodai, Hokutofuji and Takakeisho all come unstuck to a greater or lesser extent in their 3rd makuuchi/1st joi appearances, so this was a joy to behold. From his sansho interview it's clear that he's got an astute head on those young shoulders. He's only gone and bundled Mitakeumi out of the 'my current favourite rikishi' slot.

Talking of Takakeisho, he bounced right back from his moderately disastrous joi debut in the style I'd hoped he would. He also came across really well in his (well-deserved) sansho interview.

I was saddened to see both Tamawashi and Hokutofuji go MK, primarily due to in-basho injuries. Hokutofuji in particular is starting to look worryingly banged up. Anyhow, I'm now hoping he gets a reciprocal drop back to M2W to balance his miserly half rank promotion from the same with his 8-7 in July.

Re: Mitakeumi vs Yoshikaze, having now seen it in HD, I think Mitakeumi was extremely lucky not to have a hansoku call against him. It looked totally unintentional, but I've seen other rikishi called for less. Someone mentioned a few days ago that the shimpan appeared to be getting lazy and in this case I agree.

I'm pretty sure I predicted that Harumafuji would probably walk away with his usual 10 or 11 wins, but I never expected him to take the yusho with it! That was a bit "Meh". I mean, the lowest ever winning score by a yokozuna and giving away a kinboshi with every loss is not a brilliant record, is it? That said, I thought his performance in the last three days was excellent; pulling himself out of a pack of 10 8-4s after day 12 was no mean feat, nor was beating the always dangerous Goeido twice when it counted. So, I'll add my qualified congratulations to HMF for his 9th yusho.

---

One of the things that struck me overall about wacky Aki 2017 was the number of oshi specialists who unexpectedly went yotsu (e.g. Chiyotairyu, Chiyomaru, Chiyonokuni, Onosho, Hokutofuji) with varying degrees of success.

I can just imagine Hakkaku lining them all up on the morning of nakabi and yelling in a drill sergeant voice: "Rychoo orrible lot, doanchew know we've got yokozunas and hozekis missin in bloody akshun? The public is not getting the hentertainment it expects and deserves, so I want to see less of this bloody oshi and a lot more proper yotsu! Remember, I'm bloody watchin you!"

Edited by RabidJohn
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Well, there was some excellent sumo and there were some high entertainment bouts (Takarafuji vs. Ishiura for example). It was a mad mad mad "wacky bash."  I hope we have Hakuho back tor the Kyushu basho, even though a number of folks enjoyed the chaos. I hope we get Ura back eventually, but I hold scant hope for November.

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10 hours ago, Tsubame said:

The typical side effects of steroids. The younger Ama didn't had some. Then, with the success in makuuchi, he somehow gain alot weight for such a slim bodytype, become (temporary) a little bit vicious on the dohyo and he showed some acne. As a fan of Ockhams razor I prefer the obvious explanation.

I don't think that he is still using it, but I am sure that he once "boosted" his career with some help from the medicine cabinet.

I don't want to get into the whole steroids discussion, but some people just have chronic acne problems that can periodically flare up. It gets worse when doing sport because of the face getting redder.

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19 hours ago, Tsubame said:

As a fan of Ockhams razor I prefer the obvious explanation

A fan you may be. A practitioner you are not.

---

There was some speculation a while back about Terunofuji's poxy chest being evidence of the use of PEDs, but apparently no one considered that it could be a side effect of having steroids regularly and quite legitimately injected into his buggered knee joints by his doctors.

Yeah, I know - I'm too naive and I always want to think the best of people...

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

A fan you may be. A practitioner you are not.

---

There was some speculation a while back about Terunofuji's poxy chest being evidence of the use of PEDs, but apparently no one considered that it could be a side effect of having steroids regularly and quite legitimately injected into his buggered knee joints by his doctors.

Yeah, I know - I'm too naive and I always want to think the best of people...

Corticosteroids, used to reduce inflammation and swelling do not cause acne. They are not the same as anabolic steroids, used to build muscle.

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There was a long and quite angry discussion about the possibility of steroids in sumo on this forum a few years ago. It covered a lot of this ground. The basic arguments were a) without testing all rikishi would be mad not to use steroids or other PEDs; b) without testing some rikishi will definitely be using steroids and other PEDs; or c) are you mad, this is sumo, tradition would stop anyone using. Go here:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/30065-steroids-in-sumo-one-man-has-it-figured-out/

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My initial thoughts on this are in agreement with Asashosakari's five-year-old post:

"I'm harbouring no illusions that sumo might be steroid-free, but I'd be surprised if there are significant numbers that use them consistently and administered "professionally" (for lack of a better word) with proper cycling etc.. Consider one thing: Unlike many other martial arts athletes, sumotori typically don't have a whole lot of contact with practitioners of other sports during their early years of professional training. It's only once they become sekitori/famous/celebrities that they'll be able to build a circle of acquaintances that includes more than 60-year-old financial supporters of their stable."

However, if you know it's legal and you won't be punished or even questioned for it, I doubt that as a hurt J4 you would refuse to take a vial of liquid perseverance when the difference between 3-12 and 0-0-15 is the difference between celebrity and internship.

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Just looking though lower rank results. Our American boy Wachiario went 4-3 at Jonidan 4, Ooooorrraaaahhhh  stinking it up at 3-4 at Jonidan 1. Toyonoshima 4-3 at Ms17.  All moving slowly in the right direction. 

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