Kintamayama

Tom Brady trains with Goueidou

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Can guys with exceptional physical talents be very good at multiple sports in many cases? Sure. Can they be world-class at multiple sports, to the point that they could make a good living off either of them? That's a whole different kettle of fish, in my opinion. I think people tend to underestimate just how specialized your skill set needs to be to truly excel at a given professional sport.

Of course, the flipside of that is that there are probably a lot of athletes out there who didn't quite make it at their chosen sport, but they would have had the chance of a world-class career in some other sport and they just never knew it. (Particularly if the alternative sport is something a little bit obscure like...sumo.)

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7 hours ago, Kuroyama said:

Not really. Lots of sports require strength and weight. Notably, in context, American football offensive linemen.

But not nearly as much strength and weight as sumo wrestlers...it's like Washuyama said, you can't just switch to another sport and expect to do well. They're both fantastic athletes, but Tom Brady trains and develops his body in a completely different way than Goeido. So it's not very weird that virtually any top athlete stepping on the dohjo would be totally outmatched. (I wonder what comes closest to sumo wrestling. Maybe the judo heavyweights?)

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Look, all I'm saying is that weight and strength are not specialist training for sumo. Lots of specific exercises and drills (i.e. butsugari) are such specialist training, but strength and weight are relevant to lots of different kinds of athletic competitions, not sumo alone.

I am fairly clearly NOT saying that anyone as heavy and strong as a rikishi is automatically going to be good at sumo. That's pretty obviously false, and I have no idea how anyone could get the impression that's what I had in mind.

Edited by Kuroyama

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I almost forgot: At least three people who played American football (high school level)  went on to have "some" success at sumo...  Konishiki, Akebono and Musashimaru are the three that come to mind.

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6 hours ago, Washuyama said:

At least three people who played American football (high school level)  went on to have "some" success at sumo...  Konishiki, Akebono and Musashimaru are the three that come to mind.

Konishiki, Akebono, and Mushashimaru were outstanding rikishis. I'm sure they were also pretty good football players. But we were talking about world class athletes who not only participated in but actually excelled in more than one sport. If the future rikishis were that outstanding in football, I'm sure American colleges would have been offering them scholarships. Instead, they went to Japan and eventually became extremely successful in a new athletic endeavor.

There are very few athletes who were truly exceptional in more than one sport. There seems to be no one who was the very best in two of them. The most successful one in professional sports, at least in America, was probably Deion Sanders who played both football and baseball. He was a Hall of Fame defensive back and played over 600 baseball games in a  nine year career. He had a lifetime batting average of .263, not outstanding but quite respectable. He averaged about 20 stolen bases per year. He was the only athlete to play in a Super Bowl and a World Series and the only one to hit a major league home run and score an NFL touchdown in the same week. 

Another amazing two sport pro athlete was Bo Jackson, again in football and baseball. He was a better football player than a baseball player but his baseball career was still quite successful. He may eventually have been the greatest two sport athlete of all time but his career in football was cut short after four seasons by injury. That injury also affected his baseball career but he did manage to play eight seasons in the major leagues and he made the All-Star team in 1989.

Then there is Jackie Robinson who in this modern era could have been better than both of them. He broke the color barrier with the Brooklyn Dodgers and is in the baseball Hall of Fame, one of the great players of all time. While he attended UCLA in the late 1930s and early 1940s, he received varsity letters awarded for excellence for football, baseball, track, and basketball. He won the college long jump championship in 1940. Strangely, his worst sport at UCLA was baseball. He also played minor league professional football for a short time just before and immediately after World War II. 

Pro football was beginning to integrate black players at the time he started to play baseball. Interestingly, two of his backfield teammates at UCLA, Kenny Washington and Woody Strode, were among the very first black athletes to play in the postwar NFL, both for the LA Rams. 

Jackie Robinson was such an outstanding athlete that if ever played professional football, he could possibly have been very successfull at it. But since he was such a valuable asset to the Dodgers and they never allowed him to risk injury by doing so, we'll never know.

The greatest woman two sport athlete was Babe Didrikson Zaharias. In the 1932 Olympics, she took the gold medal in the 80 meter hurdles and the javelin and won a silver medal in the high jump. Later on, she won over 40 professional golf tournaments including three U.S. Opens. She probably came closer to being the absolute best in two separate sports than anyone else. The only reason why Deion Sanders' feat is more impressive is that he competed in the two sports at the same time. Zaharias started playing golf in 1935 and she didn't become a pro until 1947, fifteen years after her Olympics performance.  

 

Edited by sekitori

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Let's not forget TIm Tebow, who won an NFL playoff game and is now burning up the Minor League Baseball world...

(Whistling...)

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37 minutes ago, Onibushou said:

Let's not forget TIm Tebow, who won an NFL playoff game and is now burning up the Minor League Baseball world...

(Whistling...)

He's not doing too badly though, is he? His first full season of baseball in over a decade, and he's holding his own in Single-A, which is something plenty of actually drafted players never achieve. If anything he's further evidence that physically gifted athletes have a good shot at being at least competent in many sports.

Speaking of baseball, MLB.com had an article the other day about the tallest pitcher in minor league history (Ryan Doherty, 214 or 216 cm depending on the source), who never made it to the Majors - he switched to beach volleyball after retiring from baseball a decade ago, and will be playing in his third world championship next month.

Edited by Asashosakari

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2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

He's not doing too badly though, is he? His first full season of baseball in over a decade, and he's holding his own in Single-A, which is something plenty of actually drafted players never achieve. If anything he's further evidence that physically gifted athletes have a good shot at being at least competent in many sports.

 

According to the New York Mets website, these are some of Tim Tebow's latest statistics. In 62 games, he has struck out in approximately one third of his at bats. He's curremtly battting .225, has 21 runs batted in, and has hit three home runs. A month ago he was hitting close to .250 and was improving quite rapidly. Now he seems to be regressing.  I'm sure the Mets want him to continue to play because they believe he's an outstanding athlete who, with more experience, could become a pretty good baseball player and also because his story is excellent publicity. But if he can't improve his current statistics, he'll be fortunate to remain in Single-A next season. 

One thing I didn't realize was how large he is. He's 6 feet 3 inches (191 cm) tall and he weighs 255 lb (116 kg). If he gains another 15 kg, he'll be close to becoming rikishi-sized.

 

 

Edited by sekitori

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9 hours ago, sekitori said:

There are very few athletes who were truly exceptional in more than one sport. There seems to be no one who was the very best in two of them. 

The most noteable exception that I could think of might have been Fred Perry who was World Champion in table tennis, but also won eight Grand Slam titles in tennis (among them three consecutive Wimbledon titles).

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Let's not forget Jim Thorpe.  Probably the greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th century.  College and Pro football hall of fame along with Olympic Gold in the Decathlon and Pentathlon.  He also played pro baseball  and "pro" basketball.

Edited by Washuyama

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10 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

http://www.dichne.com/brady.jpg

How sweet.^^This tiny little boy amidst these huge athletic muscle trunks of men… :-)

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11 hours ago, sekitori said:

But if he can't improve his current statistics, he'll be fortunate to remain in Single-A next season. 

If the Mets keep being significantly under .500 and sell good players mid-season to rebuild, I can see Tebow being called up to the majors once the rosters expand, if only for one home game/series to put bums on seats.

Edited by McBugger
Tebow, not Brady.

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Also, while on the subject of multi-sport athletes, CB Fry once scored centuries in six successive first-class cricket innings, a record that has still never been beaten, and captained England in six of his 26 Tests. He also played football for England, good-class rugby, and equalled the world long-jump record while at Oxford University in 1893. Legend has it that he was also offered the throne of Albania but declined.

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I'm impressed that Brady tried this, but it was just an exercise, not a practice match. Points for that, and I know I'm not the only one green with envy.

That said, he is something of a pussy for not donning a mawashi, IMO. I'm with Shimodahito (or, further) on that one. Publicity shot and probably some respect/curiosity action happening.

On 6/22/2017 at 19:07, shimodahito said:

just a photo... training starts when brady straps on a mawashi.

 

 

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8 hours ago, torquato said:

How sweet.^^This tiny little boy amidst these huge athletic muscle trunks of men… :-)

Is that Brady's son?

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Latest Tim Tebow news:

"Mets GM Sandy Alderson on Sunday announced that outfield prospect and former NFL quarterback Tim Tebow is being promoted from Columbia of the Low-A South Atlantic League to St. Lucie of the High-A Florida State League. 

Tebow, 29, put up a batting line of .222/.311/.340 at Columbia with three home runs in 63 games. Over that same span, he struck out 69 times while drawing 23 walks. As a left fielder, he's committed seven errors in 58 chances this season. Sub-par numbers aside, the Mets have reportedly been pondering a promotion for Tebow for some time. "

That shows the present condition of the Mets organization. They sign someone who hasn't played baseball in ten years and give him a $100,000 bonus. He has a lousy first season--and they promote him. :-|

If the NSK reflected this sort of thinking, Gagamaru would currently be at least an ozeki. 

 

 

 

Edited by sekitori

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11 hours ago, Thundersnow said:

Is that Brady's son?

Yes. His eldest, Jack, who is 9. 

Edited by ryafuji

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1 hour ago, John Gunning said:

A discussion on the greatest multi-sport athletes and no one has mentioned Jim Thorpe? For shame.

 

On 6/24/2017 at 19:56, Washuyama said:

Let's not forget Jim Thorpe.  Probably the greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th century.  College and Pro football hall of fame along with Olympic Gold in the Decathlon and Pentathlon.  He also played pro baseball  and "pro" basketball.

John, as you can see, Washuyama did. I mentioned Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson in my previous posts. They both were outstanding, but I centered my thinking about contemporary athletes. I completely forgot about Jim Thorpe.  :-| Having such enormous skills and using modern training methods, if he was active at the same time as Sanders and Jackson, I have no doubts that he would have been at least their equals  and probably would have even surpassed their feats.

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This has turned into an interesting thread!

It used to be that professional sportsmen weren't very well paid, so they either had to have 'independent means' or they turned to another sport in the off season. There used to be lots of British footballers who turned into cricketers in the summer, and vice versa. It's a thing of the past now, though. The last one I can remember was Ian Botham playing cricket for England and football for Scunthorpe United back in the early 80s, and it wasn't a matter of necessity by then.

Nowadays just about everyone has figured out that you have to start young, live healthily and concentrate on your speciality if you are ever going to be world class. That's how team GB has done so disproportionately well at the Olympics over the last decade. National Lottery funding for the training of coaches and the building of sports facilities began in the mid-90s and it's really paying off now, even though we're pretty late adopters compared to the former Soviet Bloc and China.

Formula 1 used to be a playboy's game. Even those with lowly roots soon picked up the lifestyle. James Hunt was a party animal who drank hard, womanised wantonly, and usually smoked a spliff before he got into the car, which he then drove hard. He won the championship in 1976. After that he won the 'Superstars' TV tournament, which pitted just-past-their-best sportsmen against each other in a variety of disciplines - and he was up against actual sportsmen, which I think shows the overall standard at the time. In F1 that sort of lifestyle carried on into the mid-90s, until Schumacher turned up. His massive edge was his unbelievable fitness; he trained hard to improve his stamina, so he could drive the last lap as well as the first. None of that drinking and smoking for him! No one could deny how effective it was and nowadays everyone emulates him. Even playboy rookie Jensen Button turned into an ultra-fit world champion who did ironman triathlons on the side!

Bringing it back to sumo, I believe the late great Chiyonofuji was a good example of this change of attitude. For years he was a real lightweight who slingshotted up and down the banzuke. Then he packed in smoking (in the belief it would help him gain weight, which it did) and he started weight training (to strengthen his dislocating shoulders), so he was almost inadvertantly living a healthier life and increasing his stamina...

Anyway, my point is that back in the day I think it was a lot easier to be outstanding in more than one sport, provided you had the will and the means to devote yourself to practise/training, simply because the competition wasn't all that fierce - unless you were unlucky enough to come up against a rare fellow devotee.

 

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On 6/24/2017 at 04:14, Asashosakari said:

Can guys with exceptional physical talents be very good at multiple sports in many cases? Sure. Can they be world-class at multiple sports, to the point that they could make a good living off either of them? That's a whole different kettle of fish, in my opinion. I think people tend to underestimate just how specialized your skill set needs to be to truly excel at a given professional sport.

Of course, the flipside of that is that there are probably a lot of athletes out there who didn't quite make it at their chosen sport, but they would have had the chance of a world-class career in some other sport and they just never knew it. (Particularly if the alternative sport is something a little bit obscure like...sumo.)

 

On 6/25/2017 at 04:29, Randomitsuki said:

The most noteable exception that I could think of might have been Fred Perry who was World Champion in table tennis, but also won eight Grand Slam titles in tennis (among them three consecutive Wimbledon titles).

I think even more remarkable is this guy. Not only was he world class in both his sports, but the sports themselves were quite different (much more so than tennis and ping-pong)

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12 minutes ago, Sokkenaiyama said:

 

I think even more remarkable is this guy. Not only was he world class in both his sports, but the sports themselves were quite different (much more so than tennis and ping-pong)

Jaroslav Drobny. I never heard of him until now. He must have been a great athlete and a great man. 

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Growing up in Queens being a Mets and Jets fan...hating the Patriots.. Brady is a great quarterback and nice to see him get some sumo appreciation. 

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There have been some recent posts about ex-Hokutoriki's arm wrestling pursuits, which reminds me of multi-sporter Alexey Voevoda.

He won multiple world championships in arm wrestling and defeated John Brzenk, who is regarded by many to be the greatest arm wrestler of all-time. He then quit the sport and won a world championship and two Olympic gold medals in bobsleigh. 

Edited by Katooshu

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