Bumpkin 438 Posted May 27, 2017 On 5/26/2017 at 14:28, Bumpkin said: Sansho speculation: Shukun-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-2) Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (9-4) Gino-sho: M10w Ura (10-3) Sansho speculation: Shukun-sho: Not awarded Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (10-4) Gino-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-3) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dapeng said: He will end his career with 40+ yusho: a record as unbreakable as the 69 winning streak. We should all savor this yusho. It may never happen again. A year ago, no one would of thought it would take Hakuho an entire year to win yusho #38. The competition is getting younger and Hakuho is getting older. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,937 Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) OK, i've done some (a lot, and by a lot i mean A LOT. The formatting is a nightmare) fiddling with the DB and Excel regarding the oldest yusho winner. Sadly some DOBs are missing, and older basho contain no yusho information, so this is probably wrong. For example Raiden was 42 when he scored his last yusho, but the DB only lists yusho from 1909.06 on. Makuuchi modern Kyokutenho 2012.05 38 Makuuchi Tachiyama 1916.05 39 Juryo modern Kinkazan 1937.05 37 Juryo in between Genbuyama 1927.03 40 Juryo Nishikinada 1921.01 33 Makushita modern Oiwato 2017.05 36 Makushita Ayagawa 1910.01 27 Sandanme modern Tenichi 2013.09 36 Sandanme Shinonome 1915.06 29 Jonidan modern Ichinoya 1993.01 33 Jonidan Kuganishiki 1917.01 24 Jonokuchi modern Tamao 2013.01 32 Jonokuchi Tsushimanada 1910.06 23 This is a really bad beat for Aminishiki. Genbuyama is the only juryo winner, who was older and he won 1927. Had he won 1926, he still would have been older, but Aminishiki would have taken over the lead in the modern era. Guess Aminishiki has to stick around some more years. Edited May 27, 2017 by Benihana 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcus 1 Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) Can we pretty much all agree that Hakuho, for all intents and purposes, is the greatest sumo wrestler of all time. I would still put peak Asashoryu above Hakuho Head to Head, but Hakuho obviously has the greater accomplishments, longevity and legacy his combination of power, technique, skill, athleticism is simply unmatched in the sumo world Edited May 27, 2017 by Marcus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,669 Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bumpkin said: Sansho speculation: Shukun-sho: Not awarded Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (10-4) Gino-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-3) Agreed on the shukun-sho and the gino-sho. For the kanto-sho I'll go with a conditional award for the winner of Onosho-Takakeisho - 11 wins would look great for either guy. (Both young, both on career highs, Onosho in his top division debut, nice story if the sansho is up for grabs in their matchup.) 10 wins probably don't cut it. By the same token, maybe a conditional kanto-sho for Ura as well. I suspect it'll be an unconditional gino-sho instead, but I sure hope not. Edited May 27, 2017 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 431 Posted May 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Dwale said: He's not supposed to do it and he knows that. Sure a thing. We always must remeber that Sumo isn't (just) a contact sport. It's much more: a tradition, a way of life *and* a contact sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted May 27, 2017 Well, if Tochinoshin wins and Harumafuji loses, which seems likely, Tochi will have 12 wins and a Jun-Yusho. They gotta give him something then right? A bowl of chanko. Something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcus 1 Posted May 28, 2017 how many years does Hakuho have left before he retires, in your guys opinions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigel 62 Posted May 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, Marcus said: how many years does Hakuho have left before he retires, in your guys opinions? He has said he wants to stay through the olympics in Japan, so he's going to try for at least 3-4 more years if his body doesn't fail him.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Asashosakari said: Agreed on the shukun-sho and the gino-sho. For the kanto-sho I'll go with a conditional award for the winner of Onosho-Takakeisho - 11 wins would look great for either guy. (Both young, both on career highs, Onosho in his top division debut, nice story if the sansho is up for grabs in their matchup.) 10 wins probably don't cut it. By the same token, maybe a conditional kanto-sho for Ura as well. I suspect it'll be an unconditional gino-sho instead, but I sure hope not. I thought a shin-nyumaku, in this case Onosho, that got 10+ wins always got the Kanto-sho. I agree Takakeisho deserves a sansho, especially with a head-to-head win over Onosho. Tochinoshin and Ura also deserve a sansho. This post is about who I think will win, not who I think should win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,511 Posted May 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Bumpkin said: We should all savor this yusho. It may never happen again. A year ago, no one would of thought it would take Hakuho an entire year to win yusho #38. The competition is getting younger and Hakuho is getting older. I will be very surprised if this is Hakuho's last yusho. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted May 28, 2017 56 minutes ago, Marcus said: how many years does Hakuho have left before he retires, in your guys opinions? I've been saying for awhile none of the Mongolians Yokozuna will make it to summer 2018. I always expected Hakuho to be the last to go with the other 2 gone by the end of this year. I guess it depends on how long they hang around going kyujo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 431 Posted May 28, 2017 58 minutes ago, Marcus said: how many years does Hakuho have left before he retires, in your guys opinions? One thing is sure: he won't get to 2020 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,109 Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=1&form1_rank=m&form1_wins=10&form1_debutd=on&form1_ns=on That's those with 10 wins in their Makuuchi debut that received no sansho. http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=1&form1_rank=m&form1_wins=10&form1_debutd=on&form1_ss=on&form1_ks=on&form1_gs=on Those that did get a sansho with 10 wins. It has come back into favor somewhat since 2011, but it's not something that's set in stone. Note those are with *exactly* 10 wins; 11 wins has been enough for a sansho for a debutante since 1950. Edited May 28, 2017 by Gurowake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Marcus said: how many years does Hakuho have left before he retires, in your guys opinions? That is the question. IMHO, Hakuho will stay active as long as he is able to maintain the dignity of the rank of Yokozuna. 2020 is not out of the question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 815 Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Benihana said: OK, i've done some (a lot, and by a lot i mean A LOT. The formatting is a nightmare) fiddling with the DB and Excel regarding the oldest yusho winner. Sadly some DOBs are missing, and older basho contain no yusho information, so this is probably wrong. For example Raiden was 42 when he scored his last yusho, but the DB only lists yusho from 1909.06 on. ' There are no yusho listed in the database before 1909.06 because there were no yusho before that date, just unofficial "best tournament records." There was no trophy awarded for getting the most wins. Edited May 28, 2017 by ryafuji Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted May 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, ryafuji said: There are no yusho listed in the database before 1909.06 because there were no yusho before that date, just unofficial "best tournament records." There was no trophy awarded. True, but they still got the booze and the babes. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcus 1 Posted May 28, 2017 Wait Sumo is going to be in the 2020 olympics? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Marcus said: Wait Sumo is going to be in the 2020 olympics? No. There will be a dohyo iri during the Opening Ceremony. Hakuho wants to be active so he can partake. His father was an Olympic silver medalist in 1968. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcus 1 Posted May 28, 2017 I don't mean to demean Hakuho but sometimes i look at his accomplishments and think that should of been Asashoryu before he was forced out of sumo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Marcus said: I don't mean to demean Hakuho but sometimes i look at his accomplishments and think that should of been Asashoryu before he was forced out of sumo Asashoryu forced himself out of sumo. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morty 1,505 Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Rigel said: He has said he wants to stay through the olympics in Japan, so he's going to try for at least 3-4 more years if his body doesn't fail him.. The problem with this is that his body is already failing him. His elbows will just be unrecognisable lumps of meat and floating bone flecks held together by gaffer tape if he stays in that long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morty 1,505 Posted May 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, Marcus said: I don't mean to demean Hakuho but sometimes i look at his accomplishments and think that should of been Asashoryu before he was forced out of sumo Asa was already in decline when he was forced out, and he would have had to contend with a younger, stronger, fitter and hungrier Hakuho at the same time. If Asa had stayed in he may have taken a few yushos off of Hak, but he never would have got to the numbers Hak has because he would have had to beat Hak all the time to do so. And I suspect that the younger, hungrier Hak would have beaten Asa more often than not. That was the trend when Asa quit. Asa was great but for him to put up Hak numbers he wouldn't just have had to have better self control and be a better human being, he would also have needed to have Hak never exist in the first place and not be competing with him for those numbers. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Dapeng said: What you said contradicts the fact: he is the greatest yokokozuna in history. Which has nothing to do with the fact that he consistently gives these extra shoves and he knows he's not supposed to do that. It shows lack of hinaku and all that stuff (and the PTBs let him get away with it) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, John Gunning said: Osunaarashi tore his ACL again early on in or just before the basho. The same one he had surgically repaired a while back. The other knee remains partially torn as well. Oh no! Why can't Osunaarashi get much needed surgery and take 6 months off. Tochinoshin did back in 2013-2014 and his turned out OK. Edited May 28, 2017 by Bumpkin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
