BASHO TALK -- Natsu 2017 -- SPOILERS

[dingo 1,160]

1 hour ago, ALAKTORN said:

Am I the only one who thinks Takayasu got saved by the gyōji? It looks like Harumafuji had him but stopped pushing to avoid killing the gyōji.

At first I thought so too, but from the replay it doesn't look like Harumafuji softened his attack because of the gyoji. So in the end I don't think the gyoji saved Takayasu. Though he was very close to ending up under two rikishi... 

[Sakura 1,472]

7 hours ago, Tiger Tanaka said:

Goeido retains Ozeki status! After a very hard fought battle with Takarafuji who put up a great effort despite his struggles this basho. 

I feel like Goeido got very lucky with 2 Yokozuna pulling out with injuries, particularly if he ends up losing to Harumafuji and Tamawashi.

[Rocks 1,807]

15 minutes ago, Sakura said:

I feel like Goeido got very lucky with 2 Yokozuna pulling out with injuries, particularly if he ends up losing to Harumafuji and Tamawashi.

I don't think so. I think Goeido would have beat both Kak and Kise this basho. His only iffy losses were to Yoshikaze and Endo and both of them have beat Yokozuna and Ozeki this basho. Plus he beat Terunofuji. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Harumafuji tonight either. If Hakuho beats Terunofuji tonight, which is practically a dead certain lock given the way Terror has been limping, the Yusho race is over. In that case I don't see Harumafuji going all that hard in the final bout. I don't see Harumafuji making much effort to spoil Hakuho's zensho on day 15 either.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

I take it that Takayasu clinched his promotion today. I'm not sure how he got away with it, but he did, so good on him! The cut to his emotional mum in the audience seemed significant too.

[Sakura 1,472]

9 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I don't think so. I think Goeido would have beat both Kak and Kise this basho. His only iffy losses were to Yoshikaze and Endo and both of them have beat Yokozuna and Ozeki this basho. Plus he beat Terunofuji. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Harumafuji tonight either. If Hakuho beats Terunofuji tonight, which is practically a dead certain lock given the way Terror has been limping, the Yusho race is over. In that case I don't see Harumafuji going all that hard in the final bout. I don't see Harumafuji making much effort to spoil Hakuho's zensho on day 15 either.

Yes, I think he would have beaten them. I guess my point was more he's lucky that two of the Yokozuna were unfit for competition. He hasn't looked good in some of his wins either.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

Takayasu sealed his Ozeki promotion in his win over Harumafuji, imho.  Upsetting a Yokozuna is pretty much a deal maker.  

It didn't look to me as though the gyoji interfered with bout.  Harumafuji was just too light on his feet and lost his balance at the end.  Takayasu is like a wall of flesh/muscle.  

If anyone still thinks that zabuton are only thrown after a Yokozuna loss in the musubinoichiban, note what happened after this bout.  

All is not "completely" over yet.  However, the only way Hakuho loses is if he loses his final two bouts against Terunofuji and Harumafuji.  After seeing Hakuho in the ring against Tamawashi, does anyone really think he will lose going forward?  Terunofuji is injured and even though he has an impressive 4-8 win-loss record against Hakuho, I'd say that he doesn't stand a chance tomorrow.  Harumafuji will be feisty, but Hakuho is just too determined to get his zenshoyusho and prove to the sumo world that he still has it.

[Dwale 419]

Guess it bears pointing out that anything can happen in sumo. While I would agree that Terunofuji's chances are markedly slim, they aren't zero. We saw Kisenosato win a yusho with one arm, and we saw Goeido go zensho yusho. It's not over until it's over.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dwale

[dingo 1,160]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Yes, I think he would have beaten them. I guess my point was more he's lucky that two of the Yokozuna were unfit for competition. He hasn't looked good in some of his wins either.

I guess you could put it like that, but in the end the entirety of sumo is somewhat down to "luck" like this. Rikishi get unlucky injuries all the time and underperform. Likewise there are those who benefit from those injuries. This basho I feel really sorry for Kaisei who normally belongs to upper Makuuchi and it's horrible to see him struggle like that, but that's sumo for you. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by dingo

[Rocks 1,807]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Yes, I think he would have beaten them. I guess my point was more he's lucky that two of the Yokozuna were unfit for competition. He hasn't looked good in some of his wins either.

Don't forget Goeido is injured himself. He just doesn't show it much.

[ALAKTORN 346]

2 hours ago, Rocks said:

I don't see Harumafuji making much effort to spoil Hakuho's zensho on day 15 either.

You’re absolutely wrong on that. They always give it their all in their bouts. I’m pretty sure Harumafuji has beaten Hakuhō on day 15 before while it made no difference for the yūshō.

[Rocks 1,807]

12 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

You’re absolutely wrong on that. They always give it their all in their bouts. I’m pretty sure Harumafuji has beaten Hakuhō on day 15 before while it made no difference for the yūshō.

I think if you check you won't find one instance of those 2 beating the other when one of them has wrapped up the Yusho already on Day 15 or even before. You won't find much of it at all among the Y/Os. I think if they were to ever speak of it they'd say there is no point in raining on someone's parade. I'd agree with them. Especially blowing someone's Zensho when you winning will have no effect on who wins the Yusho anyway. If they can still win themselves or effect who the winner will be then it's go for broke. Or even if they are both out of the running and it's just for pride. Otherwise barring a major mistake from the guy who has locked up the Yusho you won't see them lose. If Hakuho wins tonight he will win tomorrow. Harumafuji is always injured now, and he's older. He won't be risking his health for a 3 way shared Jun-Yusho and to take away Hakuho's zensho.

[Bumpkin 438]

Sansho speculation: 

Shukun-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-2)

Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (9-4)

Gino-sho: M10w Ura (10-3)

[Rocks 1,807]

4 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Sansho speculation: 

Shukun-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-2)

Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (9-4)

Gino-sho: M10w Ura (10-3)

Takyasu for sure. Nothing for Tochinoshin? I think they will give him something with 1 more win. Whoever wins between Ura and Takakeisho will get one too. Onosho will with another win.

[Bumpkin 438]

5 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Takyasu for sure. Nothing for Tochinoshin? I think they will give him something with 1 more win. Whoever wins between Ura and Takakeisho will get one too. Onosho will with another win.

Both M10e Tochinoshin (10-3) and M7w Takakeisho (9-4) are deserving, but the sansho committee has been stingy as of late.

[Benihana 1,901]

10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Looks like Takayasu's Mom is in the house. I wonder if she likes rhubarb...

Some of our members are in Tokyo right now, they should ask 

 

Ura...love you little dumpling, but you deserved that today. Now go to your room and think about what you have done.

There's nothing to say about Takayasu, what hasn't been said before. Congratulations!

I do not want to be on the pointy end of Hakuho's stare. Never, ever, ever annoy Hulkuho. 

[Katooshu 3,135]

2 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Both M10e Tochinoshin (10-3) and M7w Takakeisho (9-4) are deserving, but the sansho committee has been stingy as of late.

Tochinoshin is also a sanyaku veteran who is usually well above this rank, so I'm not sure he'd get a prize even with 12 wins (it wouldn't be a jun-yusho). 

[Rocks 1,807]

1 minute ago, Katooshu said:

Tochinoshin is also a sanyaku veteran who is usually well above this rank, so I'm not sure he'd get a prize even with 12 wins (it wouldn't be a jun-yusho). 

Yeah, I was thinking that too but maybe if he beats Tamawashi they'll give him one.

[Katooshu 3,135]

20 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Yeah, I was thinking that too but maybe if he beats Tamawashi they'll give him one.

Ya, I can see his argument, and maybe they've arranged the match as a special prize elimination..

I'd think he'd at least need another win on day 15 though.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Katooshu

[robnplunder 974]

31 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Sansho speculation: 

Shukun-sho: Sw Takayasu (11-2)

Kanto-sho: M14e Onosho (9-4)

Gino-sho: M10w Ura (10-3)

The winner of Takakeisho vs Ura may get one prize.

[robnplunder 974]

12 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Ura...love you little dumpling, but you deserved that today. Now go to your room and think about what you have done.

 

He tried two henkas and failed both.  Although he beat Shodai in the process, I think the rest of rikishi will be weary of Ura's trickery at Tachihai and will come prepared.

[ALAKTORN 346]

42 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I think if you check you won't find one instance of those 2 beating the other when one of them has wrapped up the Yusho already on Day 15 or even before. You won't find much of it at all among the Y/Os.

You really wanted to make me go find one? Fine.
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=201307#M

You’re talking nonsense.

Edited May 26, 2017 by ALAKTORN

[Ender Wiggin 43]

Hello. First time posting, long time lurking.

Just wanted to comment on the Takayasu-Harumafuji bout and the whole gyoji thing. I just finished watching Jason's YT post of the bout and I was laughing at the blind bias, which was understandable in Jason's case (but still annoying nonetheless). But what irked me even more was the commentators were saying the same thing: the gyoji got in the way and cost him the win. 

Like yeah, Harumafuji cares about the well-being of the gyoji and would lose a bout to guarantee his safety. He couldn't care less if the gyoji got bowled over. And it was clear that Takayasu stuffed Harumafuji's nodowa and then succumbed to his own aggression. The gyoji had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Takayasu earned that win.

With that said, congrats to the new Ozeki Takayasu! You earned it.

[Bumpkin 438]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

 I don't see Harumafuji making much effort to spoil Hakuho's zensho on day 15 either.

I think Harumafuji would walk over his grandmother to spoil Hakuho's zensho.

[Rocks 1,807]

6 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

You really wanted to make me go find one? Fine.
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=201307#M

Wow, I'm surprised there was one. Any others? I tend to doubt Harumafuji would have won there if Hakuho wasn't injured and having already lost to Kisenosato the day before. It's pretty rare among this current group of to see a guy lose a Zensho. on the last day. Last instance was Hakuho beating Baruto but I think that was payback for Baruto beating him on the last day and spoiling his Zensho the year before. Kisenosato did it to Harumafuji too but that 10th win for Kise gave him the chance at an Ozeki run so he had other incentive.

We'll see though. Harumafuji is my favorite and I'd love to see him beat Hakuho but I still don't think it'll happen.

[Bumpkin 438]

 Whether or not Harumafuji beats Hakuho is not the issue. Harumafuji will try hard to beat him. It's about the effort.