Sakura

BASHO TALK -- Natsu 2017 -- SPOILERS

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, Adil said:

Could someone who can read Japanese be kind enough to tell me what these two graphics are saying? They were shown during today's broadcast.

The only thing I can understand in the second one is that it mentions Soukukarai, with two columns underneath for left and right listing 20 and 10. The first one gives Terunofuji's shikona and is saying something about 13.5 and 6.5 seconds (bout lengths?).

Thanks in advance.

New Bitmap Image (2).bmp

New Bitmap Image.bmp

Seems like the one for Sokokurai is the leg he steps forward with 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Seems like the one for Sokokurai is the leg he steps forward with 

What an odd thing to keep track of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's great to see Hakuho and Harumafuji resurgent, but not so great to watch Kisenosato struggling. I think he's more than done his duty to the fans, who can see he's not yet recovered, and he should go kyujo. Disappointing as that might be, it would at least set up a senshuraku showdown between the two remaining yokozuna.

I'm chuffed to bits to see Ura gaining such confidence in makuuchi. I hope he can get double digits and a sansho. I've no doubt other hiramaku are studying videos of him, wondering how they're going to deal with him. Sure, patterns are emerging and he'll always be beatable, but when he pulls one of his unexpected Matrix-like moves (like that lightning side step on Onosho the other day) the only thing you can rely on is you're own lightning reflexes in that moment. I'm not saying some rikishi don't have fast reaction times because some clearly do, but 'lightning reflexes' isn't what generally springs to mind when you think of ozumo...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

 

First one - which leg Sokokurai dashes with to his opponents - left 20 times, right 10 times 

This is interesting. I didn't know that they keep statistics about which leg a rikishi leads with. What does it tell us? About the kind of tachiai? The grips a rikishi employs with a left/right leading tachiai?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Sakura said:

What an odd thing to keep track of.

It should only be a footnote.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Y1e Kisenosato is now 6-3. He needs 4 more wins to get a respectable 10 wins. He has S2e Kotoshogiku (2-7) on day 10; Then he probably faces S1e Tamawashi (6-3) on day 11; O2w Goeido (5-4) on day 12; O1e Terunofuji (7-2) on day 13; Y2w Hakuho (9-0) on day 14 and Y2e Harumafuji (9-0) on day 15. That's going to be very difficult to achieve. We shall see.

Kisenosato is now 6-4. Not only is 10 wins almost certainly out of reach but even 8 wins seems unlikely. I predict if he loses to Tamawashi, he will go kyujo. If that happens than Harumafuji vs Hakuho on day 15. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adil said:

This is interesting. I didn't know that they keep statistics about which leg a rikishi leads with. What does it tell us? About the kind of tachiai? The grips a rikishi employs with a left/right leading tachiai?


I bet Tokitenku used to look up such statistics when plotting a ketaguri...

If nothing else it tells us that Sokokurai is able to lead with either leg first. I've never done sumo of course, but thinking back to days on the school athletics track, my first step out of the sprint blocks was always with the right foot. I never even considered leading with the left, but I'm sure I would've fallen flat on my face.

Edited by Yubinhaad
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Yubinhaad said:


I bet Tokitenku used to look up such statistics when plotting a ketaguri...

Now that makes a lot of sense! (Applauding...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if anyone already noted this, but Juryo is quite crazy isn't it? Everyone on Juryo 1-Juryo 9 is 6-4 or 5-5 except Osunaarashi! And out of 28 rikishi only six in the entire division is NOT 6-4 or 5-5. How often does that happen?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Adil said:

Could someone who can read Japanese be kind enough to tell me what these two graphics are saying? They were shown during today's broadcast.

The only thing I can understand in the second one is that it mentions Soukukarai, with two columns underneath for left and right listing 20 and 10. The first one gives Terunofuji's shikona and is saying something about 13.5 and 6.5 seconds (bout lengths?).

Thanks in advance.

New Bitmap Image (2).bmp

New Bitmap Image.bmp

FYI, the second graphic indicates that in the last tournament (March 2017) Terunofuji took on average 13.5 seconds in the bouts that he won, and he took on average 6.5 seconds in the bouts he lost.  The overall average length of bouts in that tournament was 8.5 seconds.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Favorite bout today was Hattorizakura, even beats Hakuho-Takayasu.

What an improvement, especially if you compare this to his bout with Kinjo. If this boy fights on like that, he got himself a new fan.

 

Some spirited, superb and spectacular sumo today. Ura can only be described with 'bag of magic'. No special price would be a scandal.

Edited by Benihana
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More Hattorizakura goodness tomorrow as he faces the only guy he has managed to beat before. (Okay, since then he has lost five to him...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

FYI, the second graphic indicates that in the last tournament (March 2017) Terunofuji took on average 13.5 seconds in the bouts that he won, and he took on average 6.5 seconds in the bouts he lost.  The overall average length of bouts in that tournament was 8.5 seconds.

Yesterday the English coverage explained in detail about all the new data derived from a new dohyo camera that captures all relevant info and transfers it to software to draw up analysis on many aspects of the rikishi. Time on dohyo, distance behind the shikiri sen, height at tachia, force per kg at contact, speed of tachia, etc. etc.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

Yesterday the English coverage explained in detail about all the new data derived from a new dohyo camera that captures all relevant info and transfers it to software to draw up analysis on many aspects of the rikishi. Time on dohyo, distance behind the shikiri sen, height at tachia, force per kg at contact, speed of tachia, etc. etc.

Did you happen to catch what was said about Sokokurai's footwork?  Why does the graphic indicate 20 left and 10 right?  In a normal tournament, there are 15 tachiai.  Not sure about the numbers, except that 30=2X15...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Amamaniac said:

Did you happen to catch what was said about Sokokurai's footwork?  Why does the graphic indicate 20 left and 10 right?  In a normal tournament, there are 15 tachiai.  Not sure about the numbers, except that 30=2X15...

Some of the data was supplied from the last 3 basho including this one but in Sokokurai's case Hatsu and Haru this year. The camera was installed from this year. Other data was for Hatsu and Natsu some Hatsu and Haru. At the end of the day some info very interesting some not so much, to me anyway. Hakuho's crouching position is 5.4cm lower this basho than the previous 2 and he has the fastest tachia in Makuuchi.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kisenosato lost his opening bout against Yoshikaze.  A few zabuton were thrown that day.  But in his three subsequent losses, fans are not throwing zabuton in disgust as is usually the case for Yokozuna bouts in which the Yokozuna fails to win.  Is this a case of double standards, or have sumo fans suddenly decided to toe the line vis-a-vis throwing zabutons?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Kisenosato lost his opening bout against Yoshikaze.  A few zabuton were thrown that day.  But in his three subsequent losses, fans are not throwing zabuton in disgust as is usually the case for Yokozuna bouts in which the Yokozuna fails to win.  Is this a case of double standards, or have sumo fans suddenly decided to toe the line vis-a-vis throwing zabutons?

Kisenosato's day 1 loss was on senshuraku. His other losses were not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Kisenosato lost his opening bout against Yoshikaze.  A few zabuton were thrown that day.  But in his three subsequent losses, fans are not throwing zabuton in disgust as is usually the case for Yokozuna bouts in which the Yokozuna fails to win.  Is this a case of double standards, or have sumo fans suddenly decided to toe the line vis-a-vis throwing zabutons?

I think there are two reasons for not throwing zabutons when Kisenosato loses. One is a sign of respect for being the first Japanese rikishi to be promoted to yokozuna in many years. He reached that rank not that long ago, he won two consecutive yushos, and this is still a "honeymoon" period where fans will overlook his losses. The second one is that he's in such bad physical shape, his mere showing up for a match is good enough for the fans. There is absolutely no reason to throw them as you say "in disgust" as long as he displays the fighting spirit to appear when he should be kyujo. 

In Kisenato's case, the zabutons are exactly where they should be--under people's rear ends, not flying in the air. 

Edited by sekitori
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, specialweek 2 said:

Some of the data was supplied from the last 3 basho including this one but in Sokokurai's case Hatsu and Haru this year. The camera was installed from this year. Other data was for Hatsu and Natsu some Hatsu and Haru. At the end of the day some info very interesting some not so much, to me anyway. Hakuho's crouching position is 5.4cm lower this basho than the previous 2 and he has the fastest tachia in Makuuchi.

Are these data published somewhere on the Internet?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Kisenosato lost his opening bout against Yoshikaze.  A few zabuton were thrown that day.  But in his three subsequent losses, fans are not throwing zabuton in disgust as is usually the case for Yokozuna bouts in which the Yokozuna fails to win.  Is this a case of double standards, or have sumo fans suddenly decided to toe the line vis-a-vis throwing zabutons?

The fans here at the kokugikan only throw it, if and only if, a yokozuna loses the last bout. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Kisenosato is now 6-4. Not only is 10 wins almost certainly out of reach but even 8 wins seems unlikely. I predict if he loses to Tamawashi, he will go kyujo. If that happens than Harumafuji vs Hakuho on day 15. 

Kisenosato jumped the gun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kisenosato has gone kyujo.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rhyen said:

The fans here at the kokugikan only throw it, if and only if, a yokozuna loses the last bout. 

While I would agree that this is generally true, I would argue that zabutons have been thrown in upsets of Yokozunas prior to the last bout of the day.  I draw your attention to Day 7 of the 2016 Autumn Tournament.  Kakuryu lost to Takayasu that day in the second to last bout of the day, and zabutons were thrown.  The point I was trying to make was that even on Day 1 of the current tournament when Kise lost to Yoshikaze in the last bout of the day, there were only a handful of zabuton thrown, unlike the shower of zabuton thrown on other occasions involving other Yokozuna.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

While I would agree that this is generally true, I would argue that zabutons have been thrown in upsets of Yokozunas prior to the last bout of the day.  I draw your attention to Day 7 of the 2016 Autumn Tournament.  Kakuryu lost to Takayasu that day in the second to last bout of the day, and zabutons were thrown.  The point I was trying to make was that even on Day 1 of the current tournament when Kise lost to Yoshikaze in the last bout of the day, there were only a handful of zabuton thrown, unlike the shower of zabuton thrown on other occasions involving other Yokozuna.

A lot of the customers filling the masu seats this Basho are probably newer fans drawn by Kisenosato's Yokozuna promotion, and have never participated in zabuton throwing before.

The Kyokai has also been broadcasting advisory against throwing zabutons on the dohyo throughout the day between the shimpan changeover breaks.

Edit: for direct comparison, how many zabutons were thrown on Day 2 for Kakuryu's musubinoichiban vs Kisenosato on Day1. Next, count the zabutons for Kakuryu other 2 losses that were not musubinoichiban.

Edited by rhyen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now