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When will Hakuho intai?

Hakuho intai   31 members have voted

  1. 1. Hakuho will intai in...

    • 2017
      6
    • 2018
      14
    • 2019
      2
    • 2020
      9
    • Later
      0

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26 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In 2018 I think...

Edited by HYI

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A better general title for this thread might be "When will Hakuho intai?" I saw this on the side topics bar and thought he'd called it quits!

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51 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

A better general title for this thread might be "When will Hakuho intai?" I saw this on the side topics bar and thought he'd called it quits!

I agree. I request the thread title be edited so it's not so misleading.

Anyways I think he doesn't have long and will intai in 2018.

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Posted (edited)

I said 2020 but I changed my mind, I'd say Kyushu 2017.

 

EDIT: Now that you have changed the name of the thread, I now read it as, 'when will the hakuho intai?'

Edited by PawnSums
The Hakuho

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Posted (edited)

I have thought  2018 for a long time now but I was not expecting him to have this many issues with injuries so soon and he's seems to have lost a bit of drive. I still think it will be early 2018 though.

Edited by Rocks

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I've gone for 2017, but I think a lot depends on his dad. Hak, apparently, doesn't want to renounce his Mongolian citizenship while his dad's still alive, yet his stated planned future depends on doing so.

I've been thinking for a while that if Jigjidiin died tomorrow, Hak would announce he was taking Japanese citizenship immediately after the funeral. He could then intai at any time (maybe as soon as during or after Natsu 2017, depending on the result, as that could be a whole year without a yusho), take his well-deserved one-gen kabu in his own shikona from the Kyokai and start his own heya.

 

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I think he can make 2020, but will not be dominant like he was before the injuries added up. It won't be pretty and I predict a few henkas along the way, but I think he can get there.

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I'm also thinking 2020. I personally think there's no way he retires this year. I'd say an exit in 2018 is possible if his injuries don't heal and continue building up, but I think he'll stick it out without any big problems. He's still good for a yusho or two per year in my book.

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On 11.4.2017 at 18:43, RabidJohn said:

I've gone for 2017, but I think a lot depends on his dad. Hak, apparently, doesn't want to renounce his Mongolian citizenship while his dad's still alive, yet his stated planned future depends on doing so.

I've been thinking for a while that if Jigjidiin died tomorrow, Hak would announce he was taking Japanese citizenship immediately after the funeral. He could then intai at any time (maybe as soon as during or after Natsu 2017, depending on the result, as that could be a whole year without a yusho), take his well-deserved one-gen kabu in his own shikona from the Kyokai and start his own heya.

 

Not sure if simply announcing "I'm Japanese now" is doing the trick. There is the pesky matter of actually getting Japanese citizenship which certainly lasts a while...

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4 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

Not sure if simply announcing "I'm Japanese now" is doing the trick.

No, of course not, and that's not what I wrote. With something this crucial to his future I imagine he has everything in place ready to go.

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On 15.4.2017 at 23:19, RabidJohn said:

No, of course not, and that's not what I wrote. With something this crucial to his future I imagine he has everything in place ready to go.

Ok, but that must be a top secret operation then... I assume the tabloids are not that dumb and watching like hawks if there is something going on, because this might give good headlines. Also this would weaken his position to become non-Japanese oyakata quite a bit if this becomes known.

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No before Haru 2018. I think he will retire after beating Kitanoumi's record of 63 basho as yokozuna.

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3 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

Ok, but that must be a top secret operation then... I assume the tabloids are not that dumb and watching like hawks if there is something going on, because this might give good headlines. Also this would weaken his position to become non-Japanese oyakata quite a bit if this becomes known.

If he's got something in the works, I would assume it's already known to some degree inside the sumo world. He has brought up the issue (in broad terms at least) so often over the last few years - and puts the spotlight back onto it every time he recruits a new private deshi - that I would be surprised if insiders don't know more about it than just his public stance. I'm actually not sure that the tabloids would touch that story, Japan's privacy laws being what they are.

As for his stated desire to last until the 2020 Olympics, I'll say the same thing I said back in 2013 when he first brought it up - I'd be hugely, hugely surprised if he makes it. I concur with Frakazu that Hak will definitely stick around until he has passed Kitanoumi for most yokozuna basho next year, but after that all bets are off, IMHO. (Assuming he has also broken the most-wins record by then, which is likely.)

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Does Mongolia allow its citizens to have dual citizenship?  If they do than Hakuho could retire immediately.  If they don't than it could be awhile.

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Does Mongolia allow its citizens to have dual citizenship? 

No

Edited by HYI

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Could there be a special exception for Hakuho? That he still could become an oyakata without a japanese citizenship? They have these ichidai-toshiyoris, so why not creating a special-ichidai-toshiyori?

Or is this not possible at all?

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21 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Does Mongolia allow its citizens to have dual citizenship?

Maybe more to the point, does Japan allow its citizens to have dual citizenship?

I thought they had to properly become Japanese, take a Japanese name and everything. It would seem peculiar after all that to permit dual nationality...

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Japan requires you disavow all other citizenship(s) upon naturalization.  However, making this statement to the Japanese government is not actually effective in renouncing your United States of America citizenship, should you have that, as such a renunciation needs to be made in the presence of an American official to be effective in that regard.  I don't know anything about the practicalities of this, and presumably while in Japan or the presence of a Japanese official (and probably in any public forum) you don't mention your continued US citizenship, but I don't think Japan can actually stop you from maintaining another citizenship.  Whether the renunciation is effective for other countries, I don't know, but I'm fairly sure Mongolia doesn't allow dual citizenship - thus causing the main problem.

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A potential 2018 intai gives us a range of "He's done in less than a year!" to "Almost 2 full years of fight left!" Anywhere from 4 to 10 basho...that's a pretty safe guess, I suppose. ;-)

 

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On 4/18/2017 at 22:55, Tsubame said:

Could there be a special exception for Hakuho? That he still could become an oyakata without a japanese citizenship? They have these ichidai-toshiyoris, so why not creating a special-ichidai-toshiyori?

Or is this not possible at all?

The NSK has said that he can't become an oyakata unless he gets Japanese citizenship. They absolutely want to make him an ichidai-toshiyori, but unless he gets that Japanese citizenship, he can't stay in the NSK after retirement. 

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On 2017年4月12日 at 01:43, RabidJohn said:

I've gone for 2017, but I think a lot depends on his dad. Hak, apparently, doesn't want to renounce his Mongolian citizenship while his dad's still alive, yet his stated planned future depends on doing so.

I've been thinking for a while that if Jigjidiin died tomorrow, Hak would announce he was taking Japanese citizenship immediately after the funeral. He could then intai at any time (maybe as soon as during or after Natsu 2017, depending on the result, as that could be a whole year without a yusho), take his well-deserved one-gen kabu in his own shikona from the Kyokai and start his own heya.

 

This strikes me as the closest explanation. Just one point, though it's several years since I was using a bit of Mongolian:  isn't his illustrious father's name "Jigjid"?  adding the "-iin" is the equivalent of the English "-'s" meaning that Hakuho is Jigjid's son. On a personal note, I do hope that Hakuho's timing will work out and the Kyokai can make him one of their most distinguished ichidai toshiyori.  As many have said, he's "more Japanese than the Japanese" -- partly thanks to the early experience of his Japanese wife's reading to him from the biographies of famous Japanese rikishi of old (that was in the early days while they still had free evenings together!)

Orion

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5 hours ago, Orion said:

... though it's several years since I was using a bit of Mongolian: isn't his illustrious father's name "Jigjid"?  adding the "-iin" is the equivalent of the English "-'s" meaning that Hakuho is Jigjid's son.

Well, I've never used any Mongolian that I'm aware of, so I ain't arguing!

I got it from Wikipedia, which has him down as 'Jigjidiin Mönkhbat' (and Hakuho as 'Mönkhbatyn Davaajargal'). Could the 'iin/yn' be a bit like the Japanese 'no' then, so it's effectively 'Mönkhbat (son) of Jigjid' and 'Davaajargal (son) of Mönkhbat' respectively?

Way off topic, but you've gone and got me curious now.

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The "family" names of Mongolians are simply patronymics.

From Wikipedia: " Mongolians do not use surnames in the way that most Westerners, Chinese or Japanese do. Since the socialist period, patronymics — at that time called ovog,[10] now known as etsgiin ner — are used instead of a surname. If the father's name is not legally established (i.e. by marriage) or altogether unknown, a matronymic is used. The patro- or matronymic is written before the given name. "

Edit: From this I presume that using just their patronymic as a reference for them is somewhat wrong, in the same way many people feel "Da Vinci" is not a proper way to reference the great scientist/artist Leonardo who was born in Vinci, Tuscany.

Edited by Gurowake
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17 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Edit: From this I presume that using just their patronymic as a reference for them is somewhat wrong, in the same way many people feel "Da Vinci" is not a proper way to reference the great scientist/artist Leonardo who was born in Vinci, Tuscany.

That's a beautifully clear example, thanks.

One of the things I really like about this forum is that I never feel bad about being put right!

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On 2017年4月22日 at 02:33, RabidJohn said:

Well, I've never used any Mongolian that I'm aware of, so I ain't arguing!

I got it from Wikipedia, which has him down as 'Jigjidiin Mönkhbat' (and Hakuho as 'Mönkhbatyn Davaajargal'). Could the 'iin/yn' be a bit like the Japanese 'no' then, so it's effectively 'Mönkhbat (son) of Jigjid' and 'Davaajargal (son) of Mönkhbat' respectively?

Way off topic, but you've gone and got me curious now.

This is precisely what I was trying to say in my last week's post, to which one or two people have tried to add from a Wiki search. In the meantime, in my regular job  which is behind the scenes, I have prevented a minor problem (major catastophe? ) by using my knowledge of Mongolian names. 

IMHO the basic problem for Hakuho may be that his father Jigjid was the first Mongolian to represent his country in any Olympic Games -- he even had to take part in the opening ceremony carrying the Mongolian flag ( and somewhere I still have the photo!). I am only guessing, since it is several years since I had the chance to talk directly with Hakuho, that he may be unwilling to appear to outdistance his father at that level.

Orion

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