Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Asashosakari 19,667]

30 minutes ago, Arn said:

I dont understand why they have to complicate things with the "dead body"-rule at all, I think the normal rule that whoever touches down first loses is great since there is so little room for interpretation (especially with camera enchanced-monoiis).

Because it's equally unsatisfying to see dominated rikishi winning on a technicality. There are lots more bouts that get implicitly decided on the shinitai basis than just those that become a matter of debate. Look closely for a few tournaments and you'll see plenty of winning rikishi touching down at the same time or even earlier than their opponent whom they just launched off the dohyo (and who doesn't actually hit the ground until he's way outside). Almost nobody wants to see those bouts be declared in favour of the rikishi whose kimarite would have to be "achieved sufficient hangtime", so kicking shinitai to the curb would probably create even more debate than we have now.

Personally, I'm simply in favour of more rematches when the competitors' shinitai status is unclear or when the non-shinitai guy touches down significantly earlier. At times they're already handling it like that, but it's probably something that comes down to the individual personalities of the shimpan so there's very little consistency.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Asashosakari

[RabidJohn 1,855]

8 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

Here is a next level conspiracy theory:

Takayasu was holding back all this time to let Kisenosato become Yokozuna before he himself would become Ozeki. Out of respect so he would not tie in rank with him and would be his junior. Takayasu and Kisenosato both felt that his promotion to Yokozuna was coming so Takayasu began to work hard to get to sanyaku and get good number of wins to immidiately begin his Ozeki run. That is why Takayasu suddenly seems to damn strong, because he always was.

Why do conspiracy theorists always over-complicate matters?

It's very simple: Taka has always had the talent, agreed, but for the last year he's been getting to practice every day with the current strongest rikishi, Kise. He bloody well should be getting better!

Anyway, back to the basho...

Wow, I didn't expect Hak to drop out before Haru! Handy freebie for Mita, though.

I'm enjoying Kise's inexorability - no rush to get the job done, but the job gets done. It's never going to be flash, but it's going to work for him consistently.

Teru's starting to look like his old self, which means he should be contending for the yusho next week. The match with Takayasu tomorrow will be an important one for both.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Giku drop out now. From the slo-mo replay it looked less like a slip and more like something went wrong with his knee as he put his right foot down, making him lift it up again sharpish. Real shame...

Ura's doing my head in. Why is he still trying to do the stunts he pulled when he was half the size? It's not going to happen. He said before the basho that he was trying to find his style of sumo, which I took to mean adjusting to the extra weight. Well, the 2 wins he has clearly show the way forward for him.

 

[Nekoyama 2]

I notice how Takayasu's picking up the same type of swagger as Kise.  

Like many, I expected Harumafuji to be out before Hakuho.  

And, what is the deal with Ishiura? I am getting super tired of him immediately going to the low position and having his mawashi handed to him.  The bigger guys are just like, 'get the heck off of me, bug.' and swatting him to the ground.  Can he be more versatile? 

[Highway 46]

Echoing the thoughts of others, I too think rematches need to be employed much more often rather than highly subjective "dead body" decisions. I get that they have a schedule and can't spend too much time on extra matches, but perhaps they can speed some proceedings up. Especially for matches that could have yusho implications, rematches would be much preferred.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 hours ago, Nekoyama said:

I notice how Takayasu's picking up the same type of swagger as Kise.  

 

Agreed.  Furthermore, they both have a very matter-of-fact way of handling TV interviews.  Are they clones?  Not by a long shot.  But it would appear that they have been taught well not to get emotional and to stay calm.  But most important is the similarity in their fighting styles - wide stance, slightly more upright, belt techniques.  Does anyone else feel the same way?

[Tiger Tanaka 226]

Day 5 Thoughts

Tough loss for Geek. Looked like he was in an advantageous spot, but just lost his legs. Want to see how he bounces back after that deflating loss, needs to go 7-3 the rest of the way.

Not too much of a surprise on Goeido's withdrawl. He was clearly off during his loss to a struggling Takekaze.

It's a joy to watch the measured methodical approach from Kise. Seems so fundamentally sound and always in a good position.

Really looking forward to Geek vs. Mitakeumi & Takayasu vs. Terunofuji matchups on Day 6.

[Rocks 1,809]

Well, Giku got a gift Day 7 against Shohozan if the can take advantage of it by beating Mitakeumi today.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Rocks

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Was catching up on lower-division stuff last evening...

I wonder if Wakaichiro was censured for this post-bout gesture, or if they thought his embarrassment was punishment enough...

And speaking of post-bout gestures, here's another one following the least dynamic tsukiotoshi in recorded history:

 

[Rocks 1,809]

Oh, that was bad. Chiyootori  dislocated his shoulder.

[robnplunder 976]

A major injury to Chiyootori.   He's likely out the rest of the basho.  The last few days have not been good for the injured, and hobbled.

[Rocks 1,809]

 If they pop that thing back in he could be okay. 

[robnplunder 976]

13 minutes ago, Rocks said:

 If they pop that thing back in he could be okay. 

If he tore any of the 4 major tendons in that area, he will be out for months.  I had one such injury and I was out for about 6 months for any contact sports.

Edited March 17, 2017 by robnplunder

[Rocks 1,809]

Oh, I know it could be bad. I was just hoping he got lucky.

[robnplunder 976]

2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Oh, I know it could be bad. I was just hoping he got lucky.

He was down for a long time ... doesn't look good.  He may drop deep into Makushita division when he comes back.  

 

[Masumasumasu 902]

 

[d_golem 213]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Was catching up on lower-division stuff last evening...

I wonder if Wakaichiro was censured for this post-bout gesture, or if they thought his embarrassment was punishment enough...

 

 

The second tachiai should've been matta also, right? 

That was deliberate ploy by Wakaichiro's opponent...

Edited March 17, 2017 by d_golem

[Tsubame 368]

Very cunning approach by Takayasu today. He took advantage of Terunofuji's tachi-ai. Terunofuji mostly just bend slightly forward to absorb the others tachi-ai, but also he rarely grabs the mawashi.

With a very strong and powerfull tachi-ai he easily broke the balance of Terunofuji, and could push him out.

 

It was a pleasure to watch. Even it the bout was so simple and short.

[Dwale 419]

Haven't seen all of the makuuchi matches yet, but I did see Takayasu v Terunofuji. Now, technically Takayasu is the underdog here, but did he look the part? Heck no, man. He does sometimes seem to run out of juice towards the end of the basho, but for now he's tearing through opponents like they were wet tissue paper. I wasn't expecting the match to be that one-sided, holy crap.

Congratulations to Shohozan for the kinboshi. 

And heh, Yoshikaze just can't seem to get a break this time around, poor guy.

Kisenosato not bothered by Takarafuji's considerable power, just moves him out of the ring like the tide pulling a swimmer out to sea. And looking thoroughly dignified whilst so doing, I might add.

[YoungSumo 93]

Well Takayasu - Terunofuji was a bit disappointing. I had Takayasu as the slight favorite based on the level of competition he had faced so far in this basho but I sure as hell expected a longer match. Still huge props to Takayasu though, he'll most likely won't be promoted to Ozeki no matter what this basho but the chance of him getting another 11 or so wins next basho is huge and I expect him to be ranked as Ozeki in July.

That said, I still feel like Kise is the big favorite this tournament. I don't see anyone even coming close to him.

[ryafuji 815]

21 hours ago, Rocks said:

me too neither. But, what if he goes 15-0 and beats Kisenosato in a playoff? 16-0

Now that would be quite something. I'm guessing there has never been a playoff between two undefeated rikishi from the same heya in makuuchi (though I'm sure it's happened in lower divisions).

[PawnSums 59]

2 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Now that would be quite something. I'm guessing there has never been a playoff between two undefeated rikishi from the same heya in makuuchi (though I'm sure it's happened in lower divisions).

Now would the loser's score still be counted as a zensho?

[Fukurou 534]

8 hours ago, robnplunder said:

If he tore any of the 4 major tendons in that area, he will be out for months.  I had one such injury and I was out for about 6 months for any contact sports.

Sumo injury report - Injury, what injury? Just a scratch, he's not dropping out. Until he does, and then it'll be 2 weeks rest.

Actually, he's still in the tournament. They're probably in the "see how it is in the morning" phase of things, and so we may hear something in 9-11 hours.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Fukurou

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

On 14.3.2017 at 15:23, WAKATAKE said:

Geek it seemed had Takayasu beat, but couldn't finish the job. Still has 3 yokozuna, 2 ozeki, Tamawashi, and the two young and very hungry komusubi to get through. Quite an obstacle course.

Well, one hungry komusubi quenched. The fat lady hasn't sung yet for Giku.

And now for a nasty jinx for Kisenosato: he could be the first yokozuna since his late shisho to go zensho in his debut basho. (...or at least the first to get 13 wins since Takanohana.)

[Rocks 1,809]

1 hour ago, Fukurou said:

Sumo injury report - Injury, what injury? Just a scratch, he's not dropping out. Until he does, and then it'll be 2 weeks rest.

Actually, he's still in the tournament. They're probably in the "see how it is in the morning" phase of things, and so we may hear something in 9-11 hours.

If it was clean out and popped back in he could go with some wrapping but it will be sore. He may not drop completely out but I can see him skipping Day 7.

 

Also, what the heck with Kaisei? He should not be there. How many wins does he need to avoid demotion? 4? I don't think he'll get them.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Rocks

[MumboJumbo 37]

Takayasu has had a powerful tachiai over the past few basho. Perfect against Terunofuji. I feel like it was just a couple of basho ago that people were saying Takayasu had no chance at getting up to ozeki, and now he's the hottest guy around. I'm liking his progress.