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Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

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Today was crazy with Giku beating Kakuryu, Ikioi beating Hakuho and my favorite match of the day; Takayasu vs Mitakeumi. 

Meanwhile in Sandamne though, Midorifuji's consecutive winstreak from entry into sumo was halted at 15. Stablemate Nishikifuji is still going strong at 16 and continues chasing Jokoryu's record of 27 consecutive wins from entry into sumo. 

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Definite win for Ikioi - Hak was completely 'dead body'. Justice was done as the bout was all Ikioi.

Losing in that fashion does not bode well for the yokozuna, especially coupled with his poor sumo this tournament and generally over the last six months.

We all have to go sometime, I suppose...even previously invincible lads.

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Well Giku looks well on his way to 10 wins. The only one I see him definitely losing to is Kisenosato and if Kise can give him one he will I think. He'll beat Goeido and Mitakeumi and Shodai are tough but not looking as good as they can be. Giku could beat both and Giku can certainly beat the Hakuho of this basho.

Terrorfuji is looking great but there is still a long way to go. Same for Tochiozan.  I think both are easy KKs though.

Ichinojo , except for 1 mistake, looks really solid. Today against a 4-0 Chiyoshoma is a big test. 

Okinoumi surprisingly looks a bit stronger each day which is odd for him as he usually breaks down slowly over the basho. 

Takyasu is well on his well to Ozeki. 

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Great victory for Ikioi. Another kinboshi for him, and totally deserved. No mistake that was shini-tai.

Favorite match of the day was Chiyoshoma v. Tochinoshin, for the sheer entertainment value of watching him struggle to heave that monster over.

Ishiura doing well this basho, good on him.

Kotoshogiku wrestling like a man possessed! It's not over 'til it's over, but he might just reclaim that potatozeki rank.

Speaking of ozeki, Terunofuji still in there, wrecking ****. Keeping my fingers crossed he's making a comeback.

Mitakeumi and Takayasu was another good bout. Takayasu just seeming to have all the answers this basho. 

Goeido needs a kick in the butt. Kotoyuki, too.

Ichinojo getting a win against a sleepwalking Kagayaki. Kagayaki looks to be utterly demoralized. 

Favorite win of the day was Tamawashi. So much energy in that, the way he snatched Shodai and flung him. Very cool.

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8 hours ago, Morty said:

He is definitely in decline. The wear and tear on his body from a long career  are really starting to limit his performance. Those huge supports he wears around each elbow are a clear indicator he is hampered there and he has perennial ankle injuries as well. At his peak he was the match of anyone so it is kind of sad to watch him coming to the end.

Harumafuji is one of the smaller guys and has always had that charge right in style, even going back to Ama days. It got him to where he wanted to be (yokozuna), but at what cost? He's taken a beating.

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2 hours ago, Morty said:

Wow, I have never seen Hak pushed back like that. He had nothing to stop Ikioi there. He has lost his power (well some of it, Ikioi is a big, strong guy)

Isn't it more likely to be his foot problem? That must really affect his defence if he's not able to get his usual traction on it.

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53 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Ikioi has joined a very small club after today's victory over Hakuho, becoming only the second person to score two kinboshi from the yokozuna. The only other person to achieve the feat is of all people: Kisenosato

I was going to say that Takarafuji has done that too, but he apparently had the bad luck to be ranked as a Komusubi the first time he beat Hakuho.

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Jason just posted the Hakuho - Ikioi match on youtube. High definition. Multiple replays. I think Hakuho won. Hakuho initiated the twist down. His left foot was on the ground as Ikioi hit the dirt. Very bad decision.

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4 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

I hope he hasn't re-fractured the orbit of his eye. It looked pretty painful.

According to the news, that was his right eye.

This time, Takekaze got his finger under Harumafuji left eyelid and gave the eyeball a rub. 

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1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

Jason just posted the Hakuho - Ikioi match on youtube. High definition. Multiple replays. I think Hakuho won. Hakuho initiated the twist down. His left foot was on the ground as Ikioi hit the dirt. Very bad decision.

The explanation is Hakaho was in unrecoverable position? So was Ikio ? 

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4 minutes ago, Philioyamfugi said:

The explanation is Hakaho was in unrecoverable position? So was Ikio ? 

Who was in the air with both feet off the ground, unrecoverable, first. That would be Hakuho.

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spo1703150033-p3.jpg

 

I agree, the decision that Hakuho was shinitai is questionable. He at least had a bit of a counter attack going, in the picture above he isn't exactly looking "dead"...

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2 minutes ago, Doitsuyama said:

I agree, the decision that Hakuho was shinitai is questionable. He at least had a bit of a counter attack going, in the picture above he isn't exactly looking "dead"...

A camera angle discussion. Where was the judge on that side? Did they review video during the monoii?

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17 minutes ago, Doitsuyama said:

spo1703150033-p3.jpg

 

I agree, the decision that Hakuho was shinitai is questionable. He at least had a bit of a counter attack going, in the picture above he isn't exactly looking "dead"...

Like I said, I would have given it to Hak or a do over at worse. The fact it wasn't an instant monoli is crazy. I thought it was just Hak's ankle on the bale but it's his calf too. Both feet inside the ring.  Ikioi is a really great guy but he got a gift here IMHO.

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I thought it might have been a tori-naoshi, but it wasn't, so that's that. If Hak has any respect for his late senpai, he'll know it's his own fault for fighting the way the did - if you can describe being sent flying backwards as 'fighting'. Fact is, 2 out of 4 yoks are 2-2 after four days. When was the last time that happened? I think Hak's still got it in him to pull out a double-digit score, but poor old Harumafuji looks knackered. Another kyujo looms, if not intai...

Takayasu still appears determined to prove his promotion doubters wrong - me included. That was a great bout with Mitakeumi.

I'd also like to nominate Takakeisho vs Kyokoshuho for bout of the day. It was overshadowed by Taka vs Mita, but it was a mightily entertaining slapfest.

 

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After day 4,

 

  • Who's looking like he will get the yusho?  Kise, Teruno, and Takayasu.
  • Who's looking like an Ozeki?  Terunofuji, Hakuho, Harumafuji.
  • The most exciting?  Ishiura.   Where's Ura?  It's in Ishi.
  • Who's turn at the Kadoban?  Goeido.
  • Who's struggling?  Shimpans. 
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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

 

I'd also like to nominate Takakeisho vs Kyokoshuho for bout of the day. It was overshadowed by Taka vs Mita, but it was a mightily entertaining slapfest.

 

Yeah, gotta give to Pillsbury, there, that was a real slobber-knocker of a bout. I just rewatched that a few minutes ago and wanted to mention it.

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My thoughts so far:

- Hakuho is already down to 2 losses after 4 days which is only the second time this has ever happened in his sumo career. He did get totally screwed though in his loss today against Ikioi as Ikioi's elbow hit first. He's going to have to win every match here on out to even have a prayer, and I'm doubtful of that happening

- Kotoshogiku got dropped down to Sekiwake and needs 10 wins to go back to Ozeki. He's looking really good so far and should be able to hit 10 wins no problem. I dare say he could even be in the title picture if he keeps it up. Where's this Kotoshogiku been?

- Harumafuji is also down to 2 losses. Can't say he looked that bad though.

- Kakuryu hasn't looked that great so far and he's been a lot more even with his opponents than he should be comfortable with.

- Kisenosato is looking solid so far, but it's Kisenosato. He loses stupid stuff sometimes and he needs more than 1 tournament to shake the choke artist mantra. He obviously he wants to impress and he's in a good position already due to Hakuho and Harumafuji likely already being out of title contention.

- Terunofuji looks healthy for the first time in a year and he's my favorite to win the tournament this time around. He's looking like an angry bull and he's off to a nice 4-0 start. Watch out for him. Could see a Kise vs Terunofuji title match here.
 
- Goeido's looking awful so far at 1-3. Not good especially this tournament is clearly going to be a weaker tournament than others.

- Takayasu is off to 4-0, looking good and looks serious about a possible Ozeki run in the future. He got 11 wins last time, if he can get 11 wins here, and 10 or 11 in May and he's the next Ozeki. Doesn't seem impossible.

- Ichinojo is actually moving forward for a change and looks interested. He should KK easily since he only needs 5 more wins.

- New hope Ura is finally in Makuuchi. He's definitely losing some matches due to being undersized but he's a skilled dude.

 

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3 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

spo1703150033-p3.jpg

 

I agree, the decision that Hakuho was shinitai is questionable. He at least had a bit of a counter attack going, in the picture above he isn't exactly looking "dead"...

This decision was bull and I'm cheering for Ikioi. This decision could lead to a ton of questions about calls in the future. I've always thought the rule was pretty simple - who touched first? And Ikioi touched first.

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7 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Ikioi has joined a very small club after today's victory over Hakuho, becoming only the second person to score two kinboshi from the yokozuna. The only other person to achieve the feat is of all people: Kisenosato

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1792704.html

Ikioi's a weird one. He's a big dude but looks really undersized and no one seems to have any real fear when facing him. In fact I'd say a lot of wrestlers don't really give him the respect he deserves. He's talented though.

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My highlights today: Many very long and spirited bouts and some serious slapfests. Great sumo.

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23 hours ago, Arn said:

He does that alot. Has even been officially warned for it a couple of times too. Not a nice character-trait

I keep changing my mind on him. First thing I ever saw of Hak was the Harumafuji henka and I remember thinking 'what a douchey move for a Yokozuna, don't like this guy.' Then as I started watching Sumo again (didn't see any between about 1989 and 2016, big gap I know!) I saw just how amazing he has been and how well he came across in a few interviews i watched, started to like him. Then I notice the almost fist pump when picking up winnings and now the shoving. Mercurial character, still not sure where I stand on him, but would like to see a classic Yusho winning performance before he retires.

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The views on whether the judges' decision to back the referee's call in the Ikioi.v.Hakuho bout seem to be mixed.  I side with those who back Hakuho for the win given that Hakuho initiated a foot sweep at the last minute and his left foot didn't necessarily lose contact with the ground before Ikioi touched out.  Whether or not Hakuho deserved to lose the call based on his choice to retreat to the edge (and to a certain degree, I agree with that view), the point is based on the final milliseconds, who was relatively in control at the point of exit from the ring.  

But there hasn't been much discussion on how late the chief referee (Fujishima) called for the monoii.  The kensho envelopes were already in Ikioi's hot hands when the call came.  That is symbolically a fait acompli.  Has there ever been a monoii called any later than that?  I have only followed sumo for about 8 years, but this is the latest call I've ever seen.

Clearly, Fujishima knew that it was a very close call.  He called for a monoii hoping to avoid criticism for not calling one.  But in the end, the group verdict was questionable/criticizable.  IMHO, the verdict should have been a torinaoshi in order to avoid all the arguments about what exactly happened...

Edited by Amamaniac
grammer

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11 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 I side with those who back Hakuho for the win given that Hakuho initiated a foot sweep at the last minute and his left foot didn't necessarily lose contact with the ground before Ikioi touched out.

Both of Hakuho's feet are off the ground (you can see shadows under them) and his body is nearly completely outside of the ring (lacking knees down). Ikioi although falling, still has a foot on the ground a foot or two inside the bales. I can't tell if he's still shoving Hakuho out of the ring or if Hakuho is trying to drag him out of the ring with him.

Clipboard4.jpg.e68abca550916a65e25f6ce4236664cb.jpg

Edited by Fukurou

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