Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[orandashoho 720]

I wasn't saying anything like Terunofuji deserving promotion. He isn't on any run right now, he is at the point where he is keeping his rank. He has yet to show constant performance. And then he has to show constant exceptional performance. The future will tell.

[robnplunder 974]

5 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Kise's promotion was in the Dutch media as well...

It's a Sicilian message.   It means Terunofuji (aka Luca Brasi) sleeps with dead fish. 

[808morgan 805]

11 hours ago, d_golem said:

Yes that's why I said before very early in the basho when people were predicting results that I was just gonna enjoy the ride until the very end, an what a ride it was!

As for Takakeisho, my theory is that somehow his center of mass is miraculously located just below the mawashi belt, right around his nether area. This makes him very hard to topple despite his apparent top-heavy physique.

He has a strong hara / tanden. I did kendo for years at a monastery and we did lots of practice with our hara, breathing etc. it looks like the rikishi do the same kind of thing when they shuffle across the floor with their arms held out in front of them in practice. It is the core and center of gravity of strength, focusing breath and sort of tension two fingers below the navel, we did it with the shinai in our hands in front like they do with just their hands.

Edited March 27, 2017 by 808morgan

[Asashosakari 18,644]

1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

I agree with this. They will try to do absolutely anything to prevent 5 yokozuna.

Will they? People said the same thing about 6 ozeki not so long ago, and then it simply happened with very little fanfare.

[YoungSumo 93]

1 hour ago, Tsubame said:

Remainds me of the talks before Kakuryu's promotion...

I was actually using Kakuryu's promotion as a benchmark here. Which was a 14-1 D followed by a 14-1 Y. 13-2 D followed by a 14-1 Y would be worse than Kakuryu and that's not even taking into account Kakuryu not having a single MK as Ozeki, while Terunofuji is almost 50/50 with KK and MK as Ozeki. Kisenosato had a weaker promotion with 12-3 J and 13-2 Y but he had the most wins in 2016 out of anyone and was a Yusho contender nearly every basho. 

15-0 Y should get Terunofuji the Yokozuna promotion but there are arguments not to do it even then, I feel like 14-1 Y is the very least he has to achieve to get the promotion considering his inconsistency.

[ryafuji 805]

45 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Will they? People said the same thing about 6 ozeki not so long ago, and then it simply happened with very little fanfare.

That is true, and I for one was so convinced about the 6 ozeki thing that I believed the story that they promoted Futahaguro to yokozuna just so they could avoid it....

[Bumpkin 438]

1 hour ago, YoungSumo said:

 Kisenosato had a weaker promotion with 12-3 J and 13-2 Y but he had the most wins in 2016 out of anyone and was a Yusho contender nearly every basho.

Kisenosato was, of course, 12-3 J and 14-1 Y.

[robnplunder 974]

5 Yokozuna and/or 6 Ozeki really does not matter in a long run.   There aren't enough wins to go around before someone has to retire or gets demoted to Sekiwake, respectively.   In Teruno's situation, he has gone kadoban just about every other basho recently.   One may argue that it is due to injury but keeping one healthy is part of game for every rikishi. 

Speaking of Yokozuna, there could be some room for a new one given Hak, Kak, and Harumafuji's age & recent injuries & performances.   As they get order, an injury takes longer to heal and harder to overcome. 

[Benevolance 2,453]

There isn't a compelling reason for the committee to hurry his promotion, even if he gets the yusho next tournament. Terunofuji is quite young relative to the current crop of yokozuna. And if he can keep wrestling like this, the eventual attrition by age of the top rank will pave way for a promotion. So I think it more plausible that if he gets the y/d/j-y next tournament, they'll start talking about a yokozuna run for July. Though I find this all a big if, given the results of a single tournament. Even Goeidou shines, once a year. 

[YoungSumo 93]

1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

Kisenosato was, of course, 12-3 J and 14-1 Y.

Yeah true, no clue why I got that one wrong. Point still stands that it's a weaker promotion than 14-1 D, 14-1 Y though.

[Kuroyama 715]

9 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Yeah true, no clue why I got that one wrong. Point still stands that it's a weaker promotion than 14-1 D, 14-1 Y though.

Not considering the prior year it's not. Teru was kadoban what? 4 times? And retained his rank by the barest of KKs 3 times? Whereas Kise had an excellent year, in contention for the yusho most of the time and with 4 jun-yusho.

You might be using Kak as a benchmark, but I note his performance has been exactly what we'd expect given the record of his pre-promotion year: Adequate for an ozeki, unimpressive for a yokozuna.

[Tiger Tanaka 218]

Terunofuji certainly performed at yoko level this basho. An absolute monster, manhandling many of his opponents. But it's one basho, just two months ago he went 4-11.

The last 6 bashos have yielded records of:

• 2-13
• 8-7
• 4-11
• 8-7
• 4-11
• 13-2

Total: 39-51 over the past year of matches

That is well below .500 for the past rolling year of tournaments. I don't think a 15-0 Y even gets him consideration. This isn't like Kise (who had 69 wins in his previous 6 tournaments before his yusho). Even back to back yushos would warrant some discussion in my opinion (Not totally unprecendented: Chiyonoyama went back to back yushos at ozeki without promotion to Yoko). He's certainly got the ability, but consistency is key to a successful Yoko. Can't be going MK every other tournament.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Tiger Tanaka

[jcaleb 10]

Shoulder injury aside, I don't think it would be impressive if Kise won the basho.  He should win, because he is the only healthy Yokozuna.  And there is only 1 healthy Ozeki.  If Hakuho and Goeido are healthy, then it would be impressive if Kise won.

But of course, the win with a shoulder injury is pretty cool.

[K. Sear 27]

13 hours ago, jcaleb said:

Shoulder injury aside, I don't think it would be impressive if Kise won the basho.  He should win, because he is the only healthy Yokozuna.  And there is only 1 healthy Ozeki.  If Hakuho and Goeido are healthy, then it would be impressive if Kise won.

But of course, the win with a shoulder injury is pretty cool.

Winning is winning no matter the conditions so I think it is impressive regardless.  It's great that Kisenosato now has back-to-back yusho after struggling to get one for so long and getting the reputation of being a big choker.  Hopefully it is a sign that the monkey is off his back and he can perform to his full potential all the time.

[Benihana 1,899]

Maybe, it's like "The curse of the Blitz". Now that he has finally overcome the curse and handed it to Terunofuji, he will be a different man 

[sekihiryu 51]

wow, it's been a while since I posted last...I'm still alive....just popped by to say damn! I need to eat some humble pie, I have been fiercely critical of the rikishi formerly known as Hagiwara over the years. He showed some genuine guts this basho. I was quite speechless. well done to the new Yokozuna. I am munching on my pie.

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

Someone posted the yusho interview, although you can't hear Kise too well.

 

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1799383.html

Maybe it's Google translations, because the only details I could get is an upper left arm injury. What I do know however is that the injury is expected to take one month to heal. Kise is expected to go kyujo for the jungyo that is starting on April 2 to focus on healing his injury. He may try to wrestle during the jungyo, but Tagonoura Oyakata is skeptical, wanting to make sure the injury is healed.

Terunofuji and Hakuho are also expected to be kyujo for the jungyo, while possibly joining in later.

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

YDC convened on March 27, with the obvious focus on the new yokozuna.

Chairman Kitamura had nothing but praise for Kisenosato. "It was a very dramatic ending. All of Japan was hyped. We and all our wives were moved to tears by his focus and determination."

Commenting on Kise's sumo during the basho: "He was calm and collected. However I felt that he found himself backed up many times and had to comeback to win. I'd like him to wrestle without worrying us too much." 

Regarding Kise competing in the Natsu basho: "I'd like him to heal completely and compete."

Regarding Terunofuji: "He stayed in the yusho race to the very end while there were four yokozuna."

Tsuna run: "His past basho results don't meet the YDC standards at this time."

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1798772.html

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

Kisenosato is the seventh rikishi overall to win his first two yusho consecutively. The last person who did this was Asashoryu. Kise has the chance to join a legend if he can make it three in a row though. Futabayama is the only rikishi in history to win his first three yusho consecutively. 80 years of history could be made in May.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1798769.html

[PawnSums 59]

1 minute ago, WAKATAKE said:

Kisenosato is the seventh rikishi overall to win his first two yusho consecutively. The last person who did this was Asashoryu. Kise has the chance to join a legend if he can make it three in a row though. Futabayama is the only rikishi in history to win his first three yusho consecutively. 80 years of history could be made in May.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1798769.html

But he is injured, no?

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

Just now, PawnSums said:

But he is injured, no?

Yes, he is.

[PawnSums 59]

Just now, WAKATAKE said:

Yes, he is.

doesn't that mean he cannot participate in the natsu basho?

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

8 minutes ago, PawnSums said:

doesn't that mean he cannot participate in the natsu basho?

Many rikishi will compete in the following basho after they get injured. If they don't, then they will lose rank. In Kise's case, he wouldn't lose rank, but a lot of people would be disappointed if they can't see him wrestle. And I'm sure he himself wants to wrestle too. 

[Randomitsuki 2,754]

1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

Regarding Kise competing in the Natsu basho: "I'd like him to heal completely and compete."

Gorgeous quote from the chairman.

Sounds like "I want to lose considerable weight. Oh, and I also want to eat eight hamburgers a day."