Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Sakura 1,472]

Can anybody tell me why they swapped the East and West sides for the playoff? I.e. Terunofuji was on the East side for the regulation match and came out on the West side for the playoff.

[SkinnySumo 32]

12 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Can anybody tell me why they swapped the East and West sides for the playoff? I.e. Terunofuji was on the East side for the regulation match and came out on the West side for the playoff.

They always switch sides for playoffs.. I've noticed but never knew the reason.

[Ryoshishokunin 261]

I'm also interested in knowing how the side-logic works for a 3-man playoff.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

3 hours ago, Sakura said:

Can anybody tell me why they swapped the East and West sides for the playoff? I.e. Terunofuji was on the East side for the regulation match and came out on the West side for the playoff.

I believe the higher ranked rikishi will always come from the east in a playoff

[YoungSumo 93]

Kisenosato's basho win was so noteworthy that even dutch media are reporting it. It's the first time I ever see anything sumo related here and it's actually highlighted as well.

Homeboy Kise bringing eyes on the sport all over the world.

[orandashoho 720]

Kise's promotion was in the Dutch media as well...

[SumpaX 23]

Is it right to say that Terunofuji is on a Yokozuna run? If he wins the yusho in may?

[Philioyamfugi 378]

28 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Is it right to say that Terunofuji is on a Yokozuna run? If he wins the yusho in may?

I dought it...kise was on a year long tare. Kise got the most wins last year. Terinofuji surprised everyone on his performance this basho and was kadoban.

[Bumpkin 438]

37 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Is it right to say that Terunofuji is on a Yokozuna run? If he wins the yusho in may?

Who knows? The "book" says "back to back yusho or equivalent". 13-2 D is a yusho equivalent. It also talks about "hinkaku" or Yokozuna spirit. Terunofuji is said to be lacking in hinkaku. Need also plays a part. There was a need for a Japanese Yokozuna. There is absolutely no such need for another Mongolian Yokozuna.

[Morty 1,480]

21 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Who knows? The "book" says "back to back yusho or equivalent". 13-2 D is a yusho equivalent. It also talks about "hinkaku" or Yokozuna spirit. Terunofuji is said to be lacking in hinkaku. Need also plays a part. There was a need for a Japanese Yokozuna. There is absolutely no such need for another Mongolian Yokozuna.

I doubt it will be the case. A 15-0 D maybe. But they will cite his past horrendous couple of years as an Ozeki and all the Kadoban bashos. And the henka will hurt him, as well as the fact he couldn't beat a one armed opponent twice. I suspect he will need to get back to a consistent Ozeki level before he will be considered on a Tsuna run. Winning the next basho would probably do that (ie start his tsuna run)

[CT3* 331]

I doubt there is much excitement for yet another Mongolian Yokozuna. Especially after this basho's amazing, fairytale ending...

[Kishinoyama 582]

52 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Who knows? The "book" says "back to back yusho or equivalent". 13-2 D is a yusho equivalent. It also talks about "hinkaku" or Yokozuna spirit. Terunofuji is said to be lacking in hinkaku. Need also plays a part. There was a need for a Japanese Yokozuna. There is absolutely no such need for another Mongolian Yokozuna.

I can't see a promotion even with this playoff loss and a tournament win in May. That 4-11 in January should eliminate that, at least to me.

My question for you is the other comment about Terunofuji lacking hinkaku. You say this because he is Mongolian? Because of the Kotoshogiku henka? Because he sometimes looks angry after a match? Has he done something that I am not aware of? I am really curious about this.

[YoungSumo 93]

Teru won't be promoted easily. I expect that only a Zensho Yusho would do it and even then it's no done deal. I have no doubt Terunofuji will be a Yokozuna one day but this is not the right time.

[PawnSums 59]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

There is absolutely no such need for another Mongolian Yokozuna.

There's no need for another yokozuna at all, I think the kyokai is trying for there not to be 5 yokozunae.

Edited March 27, 2017 by PawnSums

[Bumpkin 438]

1 hour ago, Kishinoyama said:

I can't see a promotion even with this playoff loss and a tournament win in May. That 4-11 in January should eliminate that, at least to me.

My question for you is the other comment about Terunofuji lacking hinkaku. You say this because he is Mongolian? Because of the Kotoshogiku henka? Because he sometimes looks angry after a match? Has he done something that I am not aware of? I am really curious about this.

No. I did not imply that Terunofuji's perceived lack of hinkaku was because he is Mongolian/ gaijin. Obviously, there have been six foreign Yokozuna including four Mongolians. As to why Terunofuji has this perceived lack of hinkaku, I have no idea.

The primary reason it will be difficult for Terunofuji to be promoted right now is because there are currently four Yokozunae. There is simply no need to have a fifth.

[orandashoho 720]

38 minutes ago, PawnSums said:

There's no need for another yokozuna at all, I think the kyokai is trying for there not to be 5 yokozunae.

"No need" doesn't come into it. The more yokozuna there are, the harder it will be to get the high double digit numbers to prove youself to be of yokozuna standard, and if you cannot maintain that standard habitually, you will be asked to retire. There is the YDC. There are the things expected of yokozuna. If Terunofuji meets the standards and does not violate rules then he will be promoted. Henka is a valid technique of which one should always be wary. A few henkas don't make a difference, but a yokozuna habitually avoiding combat might be frowned upon. Terunofuji has not shown such behaviour -- even the opposite given that he has fought on despite injury and weakness, Now that he seems to have regained strength and moved out of kadoban country, we'll just have to see whether he will be able to get consistent double digits and another yusho.

[Bumpkin 438]

"No need" absolutely does come into it. Take Ke Mitakeumi (9-6). Will he be promoted to Sekiwake? No. Why? Because there are already three Sekiwake. There is no need for a fourth. Mitakeumi would have needed 11 wins to "force" promotion. 

Same for Ozeki Terunofuji. He will need to "force" promotion with back to back Yushos.

[Saburo 18]

Haven't followed a honbasho in a decade or so and not really familiar with the sanyaku rikishi, save for the Mongolian yokozuna. Saw all 15 days on NHK World and twas quite the drama.

I still have a 1980s-1990s vibe in me. Kept a close eye on Kisenosato and the vibe I got was classic Takanonami sumo on display: some backpedaling, high center of gravity. The kotenage moving backwards in the ketteisen... Makes for exciting sumo but not exactly a blueprint for successful yokozuna-zumo. His loss to Harumafuji reminded me of  Takanonami getting blitzed by the likes of Akebono cause there was nothing to latch onto and swing out.

[Akinomaki 39,803]

The YDC continues to take into account the past records of a whole year: after the excellent ones of Kise to justify his promotion, the miserable ones of Terunofuji to rule out any yokozuna run for him next basho. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170327/sum17032720450020-n1.html

[K. Sear 27]

4 hours ago, SumpaX said:

Is it right to say that Terunofuji is on a Yokozuna run? If he wins the yusho in may?

I also highly doubt it.  All the drama aside, there is the simple fact that he has barely avoided demotion several times in the past year, being kadoban four times.  He will need to demonstrate that he is back to his old form and will be able to perform consistently at a high level before a promotion will be on the table.  I hope he is back since the sport is a lot more fun when he is healthy.

[Kishinoyama 582]

12 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The YDC continues to take into account the past records of a whole year: after the excellent ones of Kise to justify his promotion, the miserable ones of Terunofuji to rule out any yokozuna run for him next basho. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170327/sum17032720450020-n1.html

I don't usually say this because I am not a fan of the YDC but they had no choice. Terunofuji barely escaped kadoban with three 8-7 records. As I stated in other posts, I am a supporter but he does not deserve a promotion right now. 

[Tsubame 356]

2 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

Teru won't be promoted easily. I expect that only a Zensho Yusho would do it and even then it's no done deal. I have no doubt Terunofuji will be a Yokozuna one day but this is not the right time.

Remainds me of the talks before Kakuryu's promotion...

[RabidJohn 1,665]

Regardless of his track record since his injury 18 months ago, I don't think Terunofuji's 13-2D counts as a yusho equivalent, because he didn't beat the yusho winner - quite the contrary. In a hypothetical outcome, if Kise had gone into senshuraku unbeaten and Teru beat him to force a play-off but then lost that, that would've been a yusho equivalent.

We'll never know now, but if he'd beaten Kise to take the yusho 14-1, I think he would have been tsunatori in May.

With a yusho and 2 doten to his name already, Terunofuji is way ahead of where Kise was at the same age, and if he can stay fit he'll be a fair bit younger when he gets his rope. He has a bit of attitude adjustment to accomplish first, but on senshuraku he looked like a rikishi who'd had a bit of a stern talking-to, so that's a start!

 

[ryafuji 807]

7 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

I believe the higher ranked rikishi will always come from the east in a playoff

I never noticed that before. I was wondering why Kise had swapped sides too. Thanks!

[ryafuji 807]

1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

"No need" absolutely does come into it. Take Ke Mitakeumi (9-6). Will he be promoted to Sekiwake? No. Why? Because there are already three Sekiwake. There is no need for a fourth. Mitakeumi would have needed 11 wins to "force" promotion. 

Same for Ozeki Terunofuji. He will need to "force" promotion with back to back Yushos.

I agree with this. They will try to do absolutely anything to prevent 5 yokozuna.

 

19 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Regardless of his track record since his injury 18 months ago, I don't think Terunofuji's 13-2D counts as a yusho equivalent, because he didn't beat the yusho winner - quite the contrary.

 

I think "yusho equivalent" generally means being in contention for the yusho on the final day. Losing twice wouldn't necessarily disqualify him. But the Giku henka and his godawful record over the last year would certainly come into consideration.