Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Rigel 62]

10 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

But its not an illegal motion no matter the context.

No one is saying it is illegal.

If you seriously and honestly do not understand why the entire stadium and the vast majority of this board hated the Teru henka against Kotoshogiku so much, then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Rigel

[Tiger Tanaka 222]

WOW!!!!! Just watched it all unfold, incredible. I had mentioned on Friday how it would be cool (albeit a fairytale ending) if Kise was able to pull off a miraculous upset on Day 15 and then win again in playoff, but didn't believe it possible. Still in complete awe of what I just watched. Most gripping and exciting sporting experience for me in the past 5 years.

This was my first basho as a sumo fan, how can it possible get any better than this??? New sumo fan for life now 

[Rocks 1,807]

31 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I don't really understand why one henka is horrible but the other is very good.

If you mean Kise's in the 1st match I wouldn't call it good so much as expected. He's merely attempting to protect his weak injured side and give himself a chance at winning. Teru should still have beat him. The difference mainly is Kise needed to henka, Teru didn't against Giku. Had Kise merely lost the Harumafuji with no injury and was facing Teru Day 15 at 14-1 each no one would think a henka was cool, even from Kise.

The huge backlash against Teru actually helped Kise I think. Teru was clearly very reluctant to target Kise's injury for fear of more backlash on winning. Had Teru instead grabbed and pulled Kise injured arm the match would have been over quickly. In a sense the unnecessary henka Teru pulled on day 14 actually cost him the yusho. Had he instead beaten Giku straight up, which he was more than capable of doing, Teru could have gone full out at Kise on Day 15, and won.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Rocks

[Rigel 62]

1 minute ago, Rocks said:

If you mean Kise's in the 1st match I wouldn't call it good so much as expected. He's merely attempting to protect his weak injured side and give himself a chance at winning. Teru should still have beat him. The difference mainly is Kise needed to henka, Teru didn't against Giku. Had Kise merely lost the Harumafuji with no injury and was facing Teru Day 15 at 14-1 each no one would think a henka was cool, even from Kise.

The huge backlash against Teru actually helped Kise I think. Teru was clearly very reluctant to target Kise's injury for fear of more backlash on winning. Had Teru instead grabbed and pulled Kise injured arm the match would have been over quickly. In a sense the unnecessary hanke Teru pulled on day 14 actually cost him the yusho. Had he instead beaten Giku straight up, which he was more than capable of doing, Teru could have gone full out at Kise on Day 15, and won.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. If Teru had just simply beaten Giku straight-up like he should have been able to, Giku's fans would be sad about it, but thats sumo and he blew many chances to get to 10. Then he could go after Kise's arm, win the yusho, and people would grumble but concede that its smart strategy.

 

Teru probably felt that he couldn't both metaphorically spit on Kotoshogiku's career AND go after Kise's injured arm, I imagine he went into the playoff feeling boxed in and regretting day 14.

[808morgan 805]

7 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

And you were saying? This is sumo, it is never over! 

 

Yeah I thought by what people were saying about a very serious injury, yeah I wrote him off, but wow.... I am speechless. He deserves it, what a champion.

[CT3* 331]

I was wondering how all of the folks screaming their disgust about Terunofuji's henka of the Geekster would justify Kisenosato's use of a henka on senshuraku and in his first tournament as Yokozuna...

[Rigel 62]

2 minutes ago, CT3* said:

I was wondering how all of the folks screaming their disgust about Terunofuji's henka of the Geekster would justify Kisenosato's use of a henka on senshuraku and in his first tournament as Yokozuna...

Because clearly, all situations are always exactly the same, and context doesn't matter

There's a reason why Teru was so loudly condemned by the crowd and the internet. If you don't understand why, then you don't want to understand.

[CT3* 331]

Don't come at me like that, playa. Watch your tone. 

[rhyen 1,809]

Now that the Yusho is over, will Kisenosato finally be able to come out and announced his plans going forward with his injury & treatment?

[word20 21]

Kisenosato won at last, in spite of hte injury. It is amazing that Takayashu could do such a good basho, we will probably see him as ozeki later this year, and Tamawashi did well too.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

4 hours ago, Rigel said:

No one is saying it is illegal.

If you seriously and honestly do not understand why the entire stadium and the vast majority of this board hated the Teru henka against Kotoshogiku so much, then I don't know what to tell you.

I like Kotoshogiku, but he can only do one type of sumo. Why does anyone have to allow him to what he's best at? It is also Kotoshogiku's fault he had 5 other losses, its really daft to pin everything on Terunofuji there. 

[Kishinoyama 582]

1 hour ago, CT3* said:

I was wondering how all of the folks screaming their disgust about Terunofuji's henka of the Geekster would justify Kisenosato's use of a henka on senshuraku and in his first tournament as Yokozuna...

You know that some of the same people that thought Kakuryu should not be promoted had no problem with Kisenosato getting promoted. The same thing goes for henkas. It is okay when some rikishi do it but not others.

[Tiger Tanaka 222]

35 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I like Kotoshogiku, but he can only do one type of sumo. Why does anyone have to allow him to what he's best at? It is also Kotoshogiku's fault he had 5 other losses, its really daft to pin everything on Terunofuji there. 

As disappointing it was to see Geek lose in that fashion to end his run at restoring Ozeki rank, I have to agree with this. His losses to Ikioi (who was at a struggling 1-9 at that point) and Takarafuji (whom he was 11-5 against in his career) on back to back days were the real killers that erased his chance at getting his rank back.

 

[damarankai 0]

A magnificent basho with a nail biter ending. If I can't be there I usually watch YT but inevitably stumble on results spoiling before watching. This tournie I sprung for the dish and subscription and didn't miss a day!  

I think this gaijin might struggle getting decent seats now Yokozuna Kisenosato has won every heart in Japan! Kokugikan will be bursting at the seams!

[rzombie1988 157]

2 hours ago, CT3* said:

I was wondering how all of the folks screaming their disgust about Terunofuji's henka of the Geekster would justify Kisenosato's use of a henka on senshuraku and in his first tournament as Yokozuna...

I still don't approve of the henka, but Kise really didn't have a lot of options. It's not like he could do his usual style due to the injury and Terunofuji had already tried it once.

Terunofuji's was also especially salty because it was against Kotoshogiku who may never make Ozeki again and he really could have beat him clean without a problem.

Edited March 26, 2017 by rzombie1988

[Kuroyama 715]

49 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

You know that some of the same people that thought Kakuryu should not be promoted had no problem with Kisenosato getting promoted. The same thing goes for henkas. It is okay when some rikishi do it but not others.

The only real problem with a henka is that it robs the audience, which is there to be entertained by good sumo.

Let's not pretend that Kisenosato is stupid; nor that after 15 years in the sport that he doesn't know how he will perform. That henka was not there to end the match instantly. He did it to gain a positional advantage, and we got a very good bout out of it.

The disappointing thing about Terunofuji's henka the day before was that it was there to end the match instantly, and there was a very good chance that it might have brought the career of a very popular rikishi to an end. It doesn't look as if the latter will be the case, but let's also not pretend that it was anything but a deeply unsatisfying bout. No, Kotoshogiku shouldn't have put himself into that position in the first place, and yes, he's a known sucker for this move. That doesn't make it any better to see.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Kuroyama

[PawnSums 59]

3 minutes ago, Kuroyama said:

which is there to be entertained by good sumo.

I thought it was entertaining, the way he rolled off the dohyo

[Katooshu 3,135]

KISENOSATO!!!!!!!

I just caught up with day 15 and I'm so happy Great job yokozuna!

Edited March 27, 2017 by Katooshu

[CT3* 331]

1 hour ago, rzombie1988 said:

Terunofuji's was also especially salty because it was against Kotoshogiku who may never make Ozeki again and he really could have beat him clean without a problem.

Many thought that Terunofuji was going to beat the injured Kisenosato as well. Instead, he lost to Kise twice.

That's one of the many things that I love about sumo; the unpredictability.

And Terunofuji knew exactly what he was doing when he drove the stake into Kotoshogiku's chances. He wanted to do it. Perhaps there is bad blood between them that we'll never know. But now I look forward even more to their continued rivalry. 

[CT3* 331]

Anyone else anticipating the next bout between Kotoshogiku and Terunofuji?? Man, oh man. I hope it's epic!

[d_golem 213]

48 minutes ago, CT3* said:

Anyone else anticipating the next bout between Kotoshogiku and Terunofuji?? Man, oh man. I hope it's epic!

I'm predicting Giku will do a move like a kungfu like backward swinging foot sweep, nekodamashi, or something totally outrageous right from tachiai. Mark my words.

Edited March 27, 2017 by d_golem

[robnplunder 974]

9 hours ago, Rigel said:

If you seriously and honestly do not understand why the entire stadium and the vast majority of this board hated the Teru henka against Kotoshogiku so much, then I don't know what to tell you.

+1000.   Teru's henka against Kotoshogiku was blatantly a bad show.   Kisenosato's henka was just about the only option left to Kise given his injury.  And doing it  (and winning) against Teru made it so sweet.   

[robnplunder 974]

17 hours ago, CT3* said:

Many thought that Terunofuji was going to beat the injured Kisenosato as well. Instead, he lost to Kise twice.

That's one of the many things that I love about sumo; the unpredictability.

And Terunofuji knew exactly what he was doing when he drove the stake into Kotoshogiku's chances. He wanted to do it. Perhaps there is bad blood between them that we'll never know. But now I look forward even more to their continued rivalry. 

I was 100% sure that Teru will beat Kise.  But stranger things happen in every basho.  This is why Ozumo is so fascinating.   It's a 15 days of drama.

Before this basho, very few of us, including moi, thought that Ura will kachikoshi.   Well, he surprised most of us, going 8-7.   Hooray for the little guy.   Speaking of "little" guy, how about that Takakeisho?   Well, he's not so little when you consider how wide he is and he knows what to do with that body.

Edited March 27, 2017 by robnplunder

[d_golem 213]

2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

I was 100% sure that Teru will beat Kise.  But stranger things happen in every basho.  This is why Ozumo is so fascinating.   It's a 15 days of drama.

Before this basho, very few of us, including moi, thought that Ura will makekoshi.   Well, he surprised most of us, going 8-7.   Hooray for the little guy.   Speaking of "little" guy, how about that Takakeisho?   Well, he's not so little when you consider how wide he is and he knows what to do with that body.

Yes that's why I said before very early in the basho when people were predicting results that I was just gonna enjoy the ride until the very end, an what a ride it was!

As for Takakeisho, my theory is that somehow his center of mass is miraculously located just below the mawashi belt, right around his nether area. This makes him very hard to topple despite his apparent top-heavy physique.

[MumboJumbo 34]

3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Before this basho, very few of us, including moi, thought that Ura will makekoshi.   Well, he surprised most of us, going 8-7.   Hooray for the little guy.   Speaking of "little" guy, how about that Takakeisho?   Well, he's not so little when you consider how wide he is and he knows what to do with that body.

I'm definitely more surprised that Takakeisho pulled off 11 wins and the kanto-sho than Ura squeaking by with a kachikoshi. This wave of "little" guys that's coming through is going stronger than I anticipated.