Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

31 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

All of this talk of Terunofuji getting promoted to Yokozuna if he wins the next tournament is hilarious. First, he has not won this one yet. Second, while he looks good in this tournament all it would take would be a twisted knee and he is fighting like the 4-11 Terunofuji. And finally, I am a Terunofuji supporter but I would not promote him with back to back yushos because of the 4-11 record in January.

I don't care who you are but two consecutive yushos preceded by a losing record (7-8 record or worse) and in my opinion you still don't get promoted. 

If he wins this one and the next, he WILL be promoted. The henka furore today will have died down by then. Let's not forget the powerful and tenacious sumo he did on days 1-13. Takayasu could only manage that on days 1-10. Kisenosato was overpowered against Harumafuji and was unlucky enough to get injured. Terunofuji avoided all this and has emerged as the superior wrestler, henka or no, lucky with Kise's injury or not. That's just sumo, where luck (the will of the gods??) is just another factor.

Yeah, it wasn't pretty, but these big-match henkas crop up now and then and most of the top guys have done it. I just hope it doesn't become a regular thing for him - I doubt it will.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Pandaazuma

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

25 minutes ago, RPedro44 said:

At this point the Teru's henka talk is just people overreacting. Hakuho has done much worse (and many times) and he is still there and consider one of the greatest. And lets not talk about Asashoryu...

If he wins this one and the next yusho with a decent record of course he will be promoted to Yokozuna. 

Nishonoseki Oyakata may have a different view than you. How Teru wins can also be taken into consideration.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1797787.html

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

4 hours ago, HenryK said:

As for this provoking an anti-foreigner pushback, I hope not, but who knows. There have always been forces for this, running the likes of Asashoryu out of town, while letting Kisenosato get away with every tachiai antics in the book and then granting him the easiest of promotions to Yokozuna since Futohaguro. It would indeed be something if Kisenosato makes it to Yokozuna with 12-3J 14-1Y, but Terunofuji would not make it with Y-Y. But if it comes indeed like this, it's only the kyokai that shows its colors.

To be fair though, Asashoryu had done that to himself since he got promoted. Lying to your superiors, letting your personal life become problematic enough for the media to have access to it, and assaulting someone in a drunken stupor. 

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

Kakuryu sends his respects to Kisenosato for competing, knowing as soon as they hit at the tachi-ai that his opponent had no power to move forward. "I probably would have competed if I was in the same position too. It might get worse, but he's come this far and can't give up." 

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1797765.html

[Rigel 62]

1 hour ago, Kishinoyama said:

First, he has not won this one yet.

Did you see Kisenosato's sad injured showing against Kakuryu? Its over.

[inhashi 2,363]

Kisenosato did not show up for keiko the morning after the injury from Day 13.  Today (Sunday morning) he is back at practice with a nasty looking bruise on his left arm.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

7 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I don't think there are single words in English that describe the difference.  The best I can imagine is that it's "competition for the purpose of testing yourself" vs. "competition for the purpose of winning".  Clearly foreigners that come into Sumo will be much more interested in just plain winning than native Japanese rikishi whose culture is entwined with the activity and who think of it as much as a cultural activity than a competitive sport.

Thank you for that. It is something that has to be described, and is open to interpretation. In my view, shoubu is more "life or death" if you will, only a single chance, one shot or one fall decides the encounter. No second place, no second chance. Black or white, maru batsu. As close as you can come to dancing on the line of a real life no rules fight without descending into mere pugilism. Shiai is more of a sporting encounter, a match, something you win on points over a defined time period. A judo match or point karate and the like.

[Rocks 1,805]

I'd love to get an accurate English translation of this article about Teru:

https://news.biglobe.ne.jp/sports/0326/spn_170326_4766715441.html

 

[Rocks 1,805]

10 minutes ago, inhashi said:

Kisenosato did not show up for keiko the morning after the injury from Day 13.  Today (Sunday morning) he is back at practice with a nasty looking bruise on his left arm.

Ugggh! Maybe he did tear it. He's crazy going in the ring.

[Morty 1,480]

9 hours ago, Benihana said:

In real life Morty is a writer for WWE 

Geez, I wish! I could do a much better job than the guys they have doing it now

[Asashosakari 18,670]

7 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I suspect Japanese fans *applauded* someone henka'ing Asashoryu.

A very small minority of distinctly anti-Asashoryu people did, maybe. The overwhelming majority of people in attendance just want to get their money's worth by getting to watch good sumo, 10 years ago same as today, simply because it will be their only time or one of very few times they're getting the opportunity. They don't give a damn about any backstory nonsense like who henkaed whom in the past, who "deserves" to be henkaed because of other perceived or real transgressions, and so on.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

On the bright side, perhaps Kotoshogiku can get some more ad work in now that he has fewer responsibilities.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Terunoscruples henka-ed Kotoshogikooldude when the cool dude was in the most precarious position of his career. 

Such a man would steal food from children if he could get away with it.

[Dapeng 232]

3 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Nishonoseki Oyakata may have a different view than you. How Teru wins can also be taken into consideration.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1797787.html

If Kakuryu and Kise could be promoted with one yusho, it will be unfair if Teru is denied promotion with two consecutive yusho. 

[Rigel 62]

8 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

If Kakuryu and Kise could be promoted with one yusho, it will be unfair if Teru is denied promotion with two consecutive yusho. 

Its not a mathematical formula, past performance over a career matters (a very good factor for kise, and a horrendous one for Teru constantly going kadoban), and they'll also use any excuse they can think of to not have 5 concurrent yokozuna. Hell, the promotion criteria specifically includes by design something ("dignity" and "grace") that is very subjective and up to interpretation and the whim of the YDC.

 

If Terunofuji wins in May with something like a 13-2 record and we don't have any retirements, then I do not believe he will be promoted. It won't solely be because of what he did to Kotoshogiku because there are a lot of things going against him, but it definitely did not help, its just one more reason not to promote if the YDC is looking for one.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Rigel

[Kishinoyama 582]

I found something interesting that is similar in some respects to events that happened today. Natsu 2001 Day 15 Takanohana and Musashimaru met on the last day. Takanohana was injured the day before in his match against Musoyama. This happened: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0RQMQ64l7Q

And then this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTM37Dj8hMg

Videos courtesy of SumoParis on youtube.

 

 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

Ugggh! Maybe he did tear it. He's crazy going in the ring.

This is from a medical site about pecoralis major ruptures, it looks very similar.

[Rocks 1,805]

Just now, Tsuchinoninjin said:

This is from a medical site about pecoralis major ruptures, it looks very similar.

Yes, it does. 

[Rigel 62]

10 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

This is from a medical site about pecoralis major ruptures, it looks very similar.

If thats what he has, then what I'm reading suggests 12-16 weeks of rehab after surgery. That is not catastrophic for sumo (if you need a year, you are done because they won't let you sit a year), but he should really skip the May tournament if this is what he has. I'm also reading that the chance of re-injury and ruining all your past rehab work and time is very high if you try to come back too soon.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Rigel

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

For the very short time being we have a three way playoff for the juryo yusho, as Oosunaarashi won a spirited bout against Satoyama to improve to 10-5, and will be awaiting the results of the others.

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

Sansho list has been announced. Takayasu will receive the Shukun-sho with no strings attached. Takakeisho will receive the Kanto-sho if he wins today.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

6 hours ago, Rocks said:

You know people keep bringing this up except, it wasn't a henka. Not a straight up one like Teru's yesterday. At worst it's a HNH. Giku took the hit. You can actually hear their heads crack against each other. And what was on the line there for Teru? A shared 12-3 Jun yusho 2 behind the winner? It's just not comparable. 

 

Just remembered this was the basho Hakuho not only full on slapped Ichinojo's face to start the match but does it again after he beats him all because Ichinojo had the temerity to beat Hakuho the basho before.  Hakuho really could be a petty jackass sometimes.

1. No one likes to see a henka in an important match - or from a yokozuna or ozeki - but it's legal and they all do it at times. 

2. We don't know if the henka was premeditated. Maybe jumping forward to cause the matta set it up, or maybe Kotoshogiku's well known tendency to carelessly plunge straightforward without looking gave Terunofuji the idea.

3. Maybe Terunofuji was tired of saving Giku's butt. When he was kadoban. Kotoshogiku's henka (or henka non henka as some charitably call it) didn't matter - Teru was "honor bound" to ozeki back scratch and save Giku. No way that match was anything but a gift. (And frankly by sparing us this version of over the hill GIku back as ozeki Terunofuji gave us fans a gift this time.)

4. If Terunofuji wins consecutive basho he will be promoted. He'll have put together a more compelling case for advancement that Kakuryu and especially Kisenosato. One henka will be water under the bridge. (There was a lot of muttering when Kotooshu won his yusho, but that's because he henka'd two or three bouts.)

 

[dingo 1,133]

No matter what Terunofuji was thinking, in his current state he should've won over Kotoshogiku in any case. I guess he'll do anything to win no matter how it looks. 

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

Toyohibiki won the juryo three way playoff, marking the first time he's won the juryo yusho since 2009, and it is also his third in the division. This puts him in a 11 way tie for 8th place for most juryo yusho.

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

And local favorite Ura pulls off the win, being safe by two miles with one of the fastest sashichigae monoii's in history. 8-7 to hold his own and now move up in the top division! Other local boy Takakeisho gets the kanto-sho to finish 11-4 and will make a big move up hopefully into the joi!