Amamaniac 2,079 Posted March 24, 2017 Maybe this scenario has already been discussed, but let's say Terunofuji wins this tournament and next, making promotion to Yokozuna virtually automatic. And let's say that Kotoshogiku fails to get reinstated as an Ozeki in this tournament. And let's say Goeido does drop down to Sekiwake next tournament after going kadoban this tournament. Would a 5 Yokozuna – 0 Ozeki banzuke be entertained? From what I've read, there can't be a banzuke without two Ozeki on it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
808morgan 809 Posted March 24, 2017 I have thought this for years, never really said anything but, it does make you wonder why we can't just have sumo on a flat area, not raised up. Many injuries happen just to keep a raised dohyo. I know that's just how it is, but it seems crazy to injure these guys falling off of there when it is basically the end of the match. Am I nuts or have I had legitimate thoughts? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, 808morgan said: I have thought this for years, never really said anything but, it does make you wonder why we can't just have sumo on a flat area, not raised up. Many injuries happen just to keep a raised dohyo. I know that's just how it is, but it seems crazy to injure these guys falling off of there when it is basically the end of the match. Am I nuts or have I had legitimate thoughts? For the same reason boxing is raised. Looking up is the best way to see what is going on between the combatants, not just proximity is what commands the high prices for those seats. But, for the life of me I don't see why they don't have sand colored pads on the deck for the first few rows. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Amamaniac said: Maybe this scenario has already been discussed, but let's say Terunofuji wins this tournament and next, making promotion to Yokozuna virtually automatic. And let's say that Kotoshogiku fails to get reinstated as an Ozeki in this tournament. And let's say Goeido does drop down to Sekiwake next tournament after going kadoban this tournament. Would a 5 Yokozuna – 0 Ozeki banzuke be entertained? From what I've read, there can't be a banzuke without two Ozeki on it... If there is only 1 (or no) Ozeki, a Yokozuna (or 2) is designated Yokozuna-Ozeki. There are always at least 2 Sekiwake and 2 Komusubi. Edited March 24, 2017 by Bumpkin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morningstar 118 Posted March 24, 2017 52 minutes ago, Rocks said: True, but this belly poke was out of line by Harumafuji and probably caused the injury. I mean why do this? Clearly malice. It's insulting to treat a Yokozuna like he's the Pillsbury Doughboy too. Spoiler It looks more to me, that Harumafuji had his hand stuck between the belly fat and the belt, and was trying to pull his hand out so he would not fall on top of Kisenosato 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Morningstar said: It looks more to me, that Harumafuji had his hand stuck between the belly fat and the belt, and was trying to pull his hand out so he would not fall on top of Kisenosato Now that is adding insult to injury. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted March 24, 2017 While it is good to see Terunofuji seemingly recovered from his long-term injury, it is also worrying to witness the recurrence of old habits. He has gone for the tsuri- kind of lift more than once, probably incurring an unnecessary risk of not only aggravating his knee injuries but also harming his lower back. He is technically better than Baruto, but without a more rational approach to his sumo it is unlikely that he will fight much longer than the Estonian. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,837 Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Dwale said: I say that as a Kisenosato fan. All Harumafuji was doing was fighting to win against a top-tier opponent. What would they have had him do? If they prefer a gentle handling to a fight then perhaps they would be better served by the WWE than by sumo. sure, tell that to the "casual" fans. Us hardcores are not fazed by injured rikishis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 24, 2017 I don't know. The proper English translation says this: Kisenosato had his left arm in a sling and was taken to a hospital soon after. The doctor who examined Kisenosato right after the bout in the dressing room said the wrestler didn’t think it was a dislocation, but was told he “cannot move” that part of his body as there is pain and he is worried about repercussions from doing so. If there really was no dislocation then he could tough it out. After icing and treatment overnight along with a good wrap he could be okay. He can beat both Kakuryu and Terunofuji. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/03/24/sumo/basho-reports/title-chase-heats-kisenosato-suffers-first-loss/#.WNVljNQrKmw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,784 Posted March 24, 2017 So it was a fairytale with a real-life unhappy ending. I'm quite sad about that because it's denied us what promised to be a monster match between Kisenosato and Terunofuji. Teru's yusho to lose now and I can't see anyone stopping him, other than Harumafuji, and that can only happen if Teru now loses 2 days running. If Teru was still suffering from his injuries, he would not be fighting the way he is, ergo he is over them. That being the case, I expect him to carry on like this, just like he was pre-injury, which was his ozeki run culminating in a yusho, 11-4 as a shin-ozeki, then 12-3D. We all expected his yokozuna promotion was just a couple or three basho away back then, and I think that's the case now. Yes, he could get injured again, but that's the only way he won't be in contention next time. Regardless of the unfortunate outcome today, you have to be impressed with Harumafuji. On the first few days he looked shocking, on the verge of kyujo if not intai, yet he's theoritically still in contention. I actually love the fact that Ozumo pretty much disregards health and safety. I love watching guys who've made themselves seriously overweight crash into each other, often with their heads, trying to put each other down or out of a place that really hurts if you fall on it, never mind off it. It's hard-packed clay covered in sand and salt ffs! I also love the fact that there's also a real risk for the ringside spectators, and that they nearly all laugh when someone gets impacted. I mean, 2 shimpan ended up with broken thighs last year alone. From my western viewpoint it's all totally, beautifully mad, and the last thing it needs is diluting with is any western artifacts like crashmats and barriers. Ura has been doing quite well with pretty straightforward oshi-zumo so far (4 oshidashi, 2 yorikiri, 1 okuridashi). I wish he'd get that into his head and save all the tricksy stuff just for getting out of trouble. Maybe he thinks he's got to keep up his reputation for unusual techniques, but I'd sooner see him rise up the ranks. Looks like he will KK, but I think he could have done a bit better than he has. Anyway, taking into account Ura, Ishiura, Takakeisho, Takekaze and Toyonoshima, I'm calling a halt on the notion that short guys can't do well in makuuchi. It's a total bloody myth! I bet even Hakuho's new 'Mini-Me' deshi gets there. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,929 Posted March 24, 2017 Chiyoshoma's face after Ura wins by yoriki: Priceless Aminishiki is KK, Mitakeumi close to staying in sanyaku. Well, at least something to enjoy today. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiger Tanaka 225 Posted March 24, 2017 Big supporter of Kise, but was pleased to see Harrumafuji look so good, he's been dominant his last 4 matches. Such a shame to see Kise get injured. For those watching sumo for a while now, is it frequent to see a rikishi return next day after a dislocated shoulder? I would assume they would be definitely out for the rest of the basho, but these guys are otherworldly strong. Quite unfortunate turn of events. Hoping we can still see a miraculous comeback Kise vs Terror day 15. Imagine if Kise could actually comeback and pull off an injured victory for yusho showing his true yoko pride. I might be living in a fairy tale though :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,319 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dwale said: As for the dohyo, I agree, that is unsafe. They won't put up ropes or nets: that would be an eyesore and they're anal about that. But they could damn well put down fluffy mats around the edge. The high incidence of injuries from falling off the dohyo is one of the few things I dislike in sumo. What high incidence? Serious injuries from falling off the dohyo are exceedingly rare, compared to all the other ways rikishi get injured in bouts (let alone in practice, which doesn't take place on raised dohyo). And soft mats may help in distributed impacts, but a lot of rikishi go off the dohyo feet-first, where a soft landing area would IMHO carry added risk of twisting ankles and knees by giving way in unpredictable ways. Edited March 24, 2017 by Asashosakari 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted March 24, 2017 If the dohyo is unsafe, it's because the yokozunae aren't stamping hard enough to drive the evil spirits out. If you must blame someone, blame Kise for his lackluster dohyo iri! 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted March 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: What high incidence? Serious injuries from falling off the dohyo are exceedingly rare, compared to all the other ways rikishi get injured in bouts (let alone in practice, which doesn't take place on raised dohyo). And soft mats may help in distributed impacts, but a lot of rikishi go off the dohyo feet-first, where a soft landing area would IMHO carry added risk of twisting ankles and knees by giving way in unpredictable ways. Why not extend the "outer" square area of the dohyo a meter or two in all directions? 31 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dapeng 235 Posted March 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, Bumpkin said: Why not extend the "outer" square area of the dohyo a meter or two in all directions? Good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,929 Posted March 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, Dapeng said: Good point. Dig 4 small pits into the extended ringside to place shimpan in them. Then we play whack-a-shimpan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,221 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Ugh....probably the most upsetting day of sumo I've seen in my brief time following the sport. I hope Kise can make a quick recovery. Edited March 24, 2017 by Katooshu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dapeng 235 Posted March 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Benihana said: Dig 4 small pits into the extended ringside to place shimpan in them. Then we play whack-a-shimpan Good idea! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,929 Posted March 24, 2017 On 23.3.2017 at 13:19, Benihana said: Harumafuji likes to destroy future oeziki, it seems. Really looking forward to the Y-O matches, especially tomorrow. Will Haru and Kise follow the pattern of the last 2 years (2 wins Haru, win Kise, 2 wins Haru...) or will Kise be the c-c-c-combo breaker? The jinx of the millennium. Why? Whyyy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted March 24, 2017 Terunofuji survived morozashi from Kakuryū. He’s gonna be yokozuna in July. Really sad for Kisenosato. I hope it’s nothing serious and he can come back on day 14 or 15 eventually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Asashosakari said: What high incidence? Serious injuries from falling off the dohyo are exceedingly rare, compared to all the other ways rikishi get injured in bouts (let alone in practice, which doesn't take place on raised dohyo). And soft mats may help in distributed impacts, but a lot of rikishi go off the dohyo feet-first, where a soft landing area would IMHO carry added risk of twisting ankles and knees by giving way in unpredictable ways. We don't have any full studies on the injuries, so you can't really claim this. It doesn't take a doctor to know that falling backwards off of a raised platform is dangerous. Most of those falls those guys take don't look good. As I said last time, it only takes one unlucky fall and someone could be a vegetable. I'd support netting or extending the ring. Edited March 24, 2017 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwale 419 Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Asashosakari said: What high incidence? Serious injuries from falling off the dohyo are exceedingly rare, compared to all the other ways rikishi get injured in bouts (let alone in practice, which doesn't take place on raised dohyo). And soft mats may help in distributed impacts, but a lot of rikishi go off the dohyo feet-first, where a soft landing area would IMHO carry added risk of twisting ankles and knees by giving way in unpredictable ways. Well, while I don't deny that I could be mistaken, that's the impression I have formed. But consider: a twisted ankle isn't a "serious" injury to me, I wouldn't even go to the doctor for that, but I imagine it's pretty damned serious to someone at 7-7 on day 15, you know? Looking back over my time watching sumo (only a few years, to be fair), I do seem to have a lot of memories of hard tumbles onto the floor and rikishi limping back onto the dohyo for their bows. I'm counting that sort of thing as well, even if the rikishi in question don't go kyujo as a result. What you're saying about the hypothetical mats is true, no, you're right about that. It could certainly be a double-edged sword, depending on what they did (something like air mattresses would not be optimal, for example). It would require some experimentation to work out a favorable benefit-to-risk ratio. But I have to think it would be better than slamming onto the hard floor the way they do. It's a moot point, in any case, as they're not going to make any such changes in the foreseeable future. I think putting up ropes as is done in boxing would be the best solution, for the record, but as I said before, they'll never do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwale 419 Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, rzombie1988 said: We don't have any full studies on the injuries, so you can't really claim this. It doesn't take a doctor to know that falling backwards off of a raised platform is dangerous. Most of those falls those guys take don't look good. As I said last time, it only takes one unlucky fall and someone could be a vegetable. I'd support netting or extending the ring. That's true, people have even died just from slipping and cracking their head on the floor. EDIT: I realized this was worded vaguely. Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I don't mean this has happened in sumo. But it could. Edited March 25, 2017 by Dwale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites