Basho Talk ** Haru Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Rocks 1,809]

8 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

21 minutes ago, Morty said:

 (am I the only one who hates the nickname "Terror"?)

No, you're not...

I love it! 

[YoungSumo 93]

Sad to see Kise get injured but even then I feel mostly relieved that it happened this basho and not the previous one or otherwise he wouldn't even be a Yokozuna. He'll get another Jun-Yusho anyway and he'll have plenty of opportunities in the future to pad his Yusho numbers. Still sad but could've been worse.

[SumpaX 23]

6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 But watching the replay, there was no evidence of malice.  Harumafuji was perfectly calm prior to the tachiai.  His face did not reveal any ill intent.  He just drove Kise back out of the ring with surgical precision.  Impeccable sumo, imho.  It was definitely unfortunate that Kise was injured in the fall from the ring.  If anything, the raised ring is to blame.  I've long felt that the raised ring is a disaster (read "serious injury") waiting to happen.

 

True there was no ill intend but i definatley claim i saw a fierce focused and an "much to proof" harumafuji... and how could u do that better with a win over the frontrunner? Which by the way happens to be the rikishi who threatens ur place (Intai talk and everything)!

Edited March 24, 2017 by SumpaX

[Rocks 1,809]

7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

When I first read the news that Kisenosato was injured in his loss against Harumafuji, I had visions of Harumafuji using a dame oshi or vicious throw down as some sort of payback for his stablemate, Terunofuji, getting injured, having his win streak broken, and eventually losing the championship (not to mention a move towards Yokozuna promotion in record time) on Day 12 of the 2015 Aki basho.  But watching the replay, there was no evidence of malice.  Harumafuji was perfectly calm prior to the tachiai.  His face did not reveal any ill intent.  He just drove Kise back out of the ring with surgical precision.  Impeccable sumo, imho.  It was definitely unfortunate that Kise was injured in the fall from the ring.  If anything, the raised ring is to blame.  I've long felt that the raised ring is a disaster (read "serious injury") waiting to happen.

 

I saw no malice either and I don't think Harumafuji did anything that directly led to the injury. The injury is just one of those things that happen unfortunately. But I agree about the raised ring.

I would say the same for Aki 2015. Terunofuji had already lost to Tochizan the day before. Kise didn't start his skid that basho. 

[Dwale 419]

As for the dohyo, I agree, that is unsafe. They won't put up ropes or nets: that would be an eyesore and they're anal about that. But they could damn well put down fluffy mats around the edge. The high incidence of injuries from falling off the dohyo is one of the few things I dislike in sumo.

No, Harumafuji wasn't trying to injure Kisenosato, he was just doing what he does: decisive, explosive sumo. There is no fault on him for this misfortune. A little more luck and Kisenosato would have walked it off, but he happened to fall in just the wrong way.

EDIT: Would anyone seriously fault Harumafuji for bringing his A game to this bout?

Edited March 24, 2017 by Dwale

[Morty 1,495]

12 minutes ago, Rocks said:

To each his own, I'd say the opposite. The fact he gave up the morazashi shows he didn't dominate, but he did overcome. But he overcame a Yokozuna who couldn't finish a guy even with having the morazashi. 

Technically Kak dominated him, given that you can't ever claim technical superiority if you give up a morazashi, but in terms of brute strength, and in terms of who got the win, TF was all over him, which is what I meant. Kak never looked like winning that. It's a pity Harumafuji can't face him because I would love to see that. I can't see anyone else getting the yusho now, but any suggestion that he will go straight on to win the next basho and get promoted to Yok seems extremely premature. In all likelihood he will go 5-10, which has been his modus operandi for the last couple of years following a good basho

[Jakusotsu 5,969]

34 minutes ago, Morty said:

(am I the only one who hates the nickname "Terror"?). I would say he completely dominated Kak, given that a Yok couldn't beat him with his favourite winning move. 

Just as much as I hate "Kak" and "Yok".

[Morty 1,495]

Just now, Jakusotsu said:

Just as much as I hate "Kak" and "Yok".

Fair enough

[kumoryu 88]

The conspiracy guys will, of course, latch onto this as proof of the conspiracy -- because, as is always the case with any conspiracy theory, anything that happens always proves the theory was right. In this case, the proof will go something like:

Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna; therefore he has never actually faced an opponent who was trying to beat him; therefore, when faced with an opponent who was trying to beat him, he didn't know how to protect himself; therefore he was injured; therefore we now know that Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna. This may also be taken as proof that climate change is just an excuse to take our guns away. Or something.

 

[Dapeng 235]

6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

When I first read the news that Kisenosato was injured in his loss against Harumafuji, I had visions of Harumafuji using a dame oshi or vicious throw down as some sort of payback for his stablemate, Terunofuji, getting injured, having his win streak broken, and eventually losing the championship (not to mention a move towards Yokozuna promotion in record time) on Day 12 of the 2015 Aki basho.  But watching the replay, there was no evidence of malice.  Harumafuji was perfectly calm prior to the tachiai.  His face did not reveal any ill intent.  He just drove Kise back out of the ring with surgical precision.  Impeccable sumo, imho.  It was definitely unfortunate that Kise was injured in the fall from the ring.  If anything, the raised ring is to blame.  I've long felt that the raised ring is a disaster (read "serious injury") waiting to happen.

 

He probably already broke his chest muscle (pectoralis major) before falling off the dohyo. Falling off the dohyo may cause shoulder dislocation but unlikely to break the pectoralis major.

[Dapeng 235]

11 minutes ago, kumoryu said:

The conspiracy guys will, of course, latch onto this as proof of the conspiracy -- because, as is always the case with any conspiracy theory, anything that happens always proves the theory was right. In this case, the proof will go something like:

Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna; therefore he has never actually faced an opponent who was trying to beat him; therefore, when faced with an opponent who was trying to beat him, he didn't know how to protect himself; therefore he was injured; therefore we now know that Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna. This may also be taken as proof that climate change is just an excuse to take our guns away. Or something.

 

That's why the famous saying "not only winning numbers but also the sumo 'naiyo' (quality)". However, ordinary viewers are not sumo expert and they depend on the analysis of those sumo "experts". 

[Asojima 2,874]

10 minutes ago, kumoryu said:

The conspiracy guys will, of course, latch onto this as proof of the conspiracy -- because, as is always the case with any conspiracy theory, anything that happens always proves the theory was right. In this case, the proof will go something like:

Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna; therefore he has never actually faced an opponent who was trying to beat him; therefore, when faced with an opponent who was trying to beat him, he didn't know how to protect himself; therefore he was injured; therefore we now know that Kisenosato was gifted all the wins he needed to make him yokozuna. This may also be taken as proof that climate change is just an excuse to take our guns away. Or something.

 

More imaginative:  Terunofuji was the designated yusho winner for Haru, and Kotoshogiku was supposed to reclaim his ozekihood.  Sooooo, Kisenosato had to fake an injury to allow Terunofuji to regain the lead with enough slack to allow Kotoshogiku to beat him and get his 10th win.  It's all very obvious.

[Rocks 1,809]

38 minutes ago, Morty said:

In all likelihood he will go 5-10, which has been his modus operandi for the last couple of years following a good basho

I sincerely hope not. For the first time in quite awhile his knees actually look good and he isn't done after getting 8 wins or loses. Whatever happens I think Terrorfuji will hold the Oe slot for a few basho.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

19 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

He probably already broke his chest muscle (pectoralis major) before falling off the dohyo. Falling off the dohyo may cause shoulder dislocation but unlikely to break the pectoralis major.

I watched a few times just because he was driven back so easily...if he got injured on the charge.... Maybe? 

 

Nice seeing Ura driving forward...great sumo ! 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

49 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I saw no malice either and I don't think Harumafuji did anything that directly led to the injury. The injury is just one of those things that happen unfortunately. But I agree about the raised ring.

I would say the same for Aki 2015. Terunofuji had already lost to Tochizan the day before. Kise didn't start his skid that basho. 

You are absolutely right about Tochiozan breaking his win streak on Day 12.  But if memory serves, it was during his subsequent bout against Kisenosato that Terunofuji suffered his critical knee injury.  That was a costly injury, just like Kisenosato's recent injury is looking costly.  In short, karma's a bitch (pardon my French).

[Andreas21 184]

Wakamisho (nowadays called Terunofuji) remembered his former self and employs the Baruto-Sumo which he was so good at. I don't know why it works - but it seems to do. It looks a decisively awkward - give the opponent Morozashi and then fight back with supernatural power.

Even Baruto could not get rid of it. Is it psychological? Does the losing position release a secret source of energy? Why can't they in the first place?

For me as a fan it is pure drama! He can't possibly win this - but can he? He tries the impossible - and we share the thrill. I loved it with Baruto, and I love it with Terunofuji.

[Rocks 1,809]

32 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

He probably already broke his chest muscle (pectoralis major) before falling off the dohyo. Falling off the dohyo may cause shoulder dislocation but unlikely to break the pectoralis major.

You can't really break a muscle, rather a pull or tear. The pectoralis major connects directly to the upper arm which is what becomes dislocated in a dislocated shoulder. That dislocation takes the upper arm out of it's normal range of motion and can lead to a pull or tear of the pecs. The act of falling either pulled the arm behind him or jammed it into the shoulder leading to the pull I think. I don't think he tore it. I hope not. It would seem to me his pain would have been much greater if he had but you never now. Pain onset can often be delayed, especially when you are hyped up for competition.

[Rocks 1,809]

9 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

Wakamisho (nowadays called Terunofuji) remembered his former self and employs the Baruto-Sumo which he was so good at. I don't know why it works - but it seems to do. It looks a decisively awkward - give the opponent Morozashi and then fight back with supernatural power.

Even Baruto could not get rid of it. Is it psychological? Does the losing position release a secret source of energy? Why can't they in the first place?

For me as a fan it is pure drama! He can't possibly win this - but can he? He tries the impossible - and we share the thrill. I loved it with Baruto, and I love it with Terunofuji.

I think it do the the fact they are so good at lifting. The double outside grip feels right for hefting a large, unwieldy weight.

[rhyen 1,840]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

The oyakatas are worried about that too. They don't sound too confident.

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170324/sum17032421560017-n1.html

2 hours ago, Rocks said:

I don't know how accurate this google translation is but I love this quote from the President of the Sumo Association upon seeing Kise wince:

" I stared at the TV and it was a bad time for me. "What kind of situation is it? I want you to be slightly injured.""

Well, Kisenosato is literally their golden goose right now.

 

1 hour ago, Dwale said:

 

EDIT: Would anyone seriously fault Harumafuji for bringing his A game to this bout?

Tell that to the millions of casual sumo/Kisenosato fans spewing vitriols on social media.

[rhyen 1,840]

Best photo of the point of impact

[Dwale 419]

16 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Tell that to the millions of casual sumo/Kisenosato fans spewing vitriols on social media.

I say that as a Kisenosato fan. All Harumafuji was doing was fighting to win against a top-tier opponent. What would they have had him do? If they prefer a gentle handling to a fight then perhaps they would be better served by the WWE than by sumo.

[Rocks 1,809]

13 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Best photo of the point of impact

True, but this belly poke was out of line by Harumafuji and probably caused the injury. I mean why do this? Clearly malice. It's insulting to treat a Yokozuna like he's the Pillsbury Doughboy too. 

[Sakura 1,489]

58 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I sincerely hope not. For the first time in quite awhile his knees actually look good and he isn't done after getting 8 wins or loses. Whatever happens I think Terrorfuji will hold the Oe slot for a few basho.

Holding down the Oe slot might not be much of an achievement. It's possible in two basho he might be the only Ozeki.

[Rocks 1,809]

6 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Holding down the Oe slot might not be much of an achievement. It's possible in two basho he might be the only Ozeki.

Aww, don't say that. I like Goeido. 

[Jakusotsu 5,969]

2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Holding down the Oe slot might not be much of an achievement. It's possible in two basho he might be the only Ozeki.

...or one of two Yokozuna-Ozeki.