Rocks 1,809 Posted March 17, 2017 The other thing I am wondering about is Ichinojo. Maybe his back started acting up again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) On 3/16/2017 at 11:14, Rocks said: me too neither. But, what if he goes 15-0 and beats Kisenosato in a playoff? 16-0 He would have the 33 wins needed if he goes 15-0 to be Ozeki already. I guess they would say no because he went 7-8 in November but that would basically be a new rule. He goes 16-0 and he'd be at 34 wins. Edited March 17, 2017 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said: He would have the 33 wins needed if he goes 15-0 to be Ozeki already. Yeah but those wins started with a 7-8 MK. Still, they might do it but I'm definitely in the don't think so camp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rocks said: Yeah but those wins started with a 7-8 MK. Still, they might do it but I'm definitely in the don't think so camp. Probably not, but 33 wins are 33 wins to me regardless of how you split them up. He'd have that and at least a share of the title, so I think it'd be harder for them to do it. Edited March 17, 2017 by rzombie1988 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kassidilla 8 Posted March 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Masumasumasu said: Can anyone explain to me why whenever someone gets seriously hurt everyone just stands around poking them and hoping they magically come to life? Last basho when people got knocked out they just stood there. I know there is the sumo spirit of being able to get up and bow, but surely in a professional sport there would be people smart enough to recognize serious injuries and help instead of just standing around? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frakazu 22 Posted March 17, 2017 In the six basho era, there were to ozeki promotions started with an 7-8 as sekiwake: Wakahaguro May 1995 - November 1959 Kaiketsu Sept 1974 - March 1975 http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&n_basho=4&form1_rank=s&form1_year=1958-2017&form2_rank=k&form2_year=1958-2017&form3_rank=s&form3_year=1958-2017&form4_rank=o&form4_year=1958-2017 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwale 419 Posted March 17, 2017 I wonder if any of you trivia buffs could tell me which rikishi took out the most gyoji over his career. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nekoyama 2 Posted March 17, 2017 This is a dumb question, I'm pretty sure. Am I the only one to think that Kaisei's a dumba$$ for coming back this basho and not just sitting it out? I mean, for real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,855 Posted March 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: And now for a nasty jinx for Kisenosato: he could be the first yokozuna since his late shisho to go zensho in his debut basho. I beat you to it, some time ago actually: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/36252-yokozuna-kisenosato-first-basho-result/ I described it as being uber-optimistic at the time, but now I think it's merely optimistic. Kise didn't have the usual promotion and he's not going to have the usual shin-yokozuna dip; on the contrary, he's looking like the main yusho contender. Wow, Takayasu is the next ozeki! I had no disappointment in his bout with Teru - it was magnificent! Teru had no answer - didn't even have time to think of one! Taka has to be the other main yusho contender now. What was Mitakeumi doing going belly to belly with the Geek? That was Kise's mistake last time. Regardless of his results so far Mita's still looking full of fighting spirit, and I'm pretty sure the errors go into a 'Don't do that again!' file in his head. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted March 17, 2017 Rankings after Day 6: 6 wins ○○○○○○ Y2w Kisenosato ○○○○○○ S1w Takayasu ○○○○○○ M10w Tochiozan 5 wins ○○○○○● O1w Terunofuji ○○○○○● M3w Takarafuji ○○○○●○ M7w Chiyoshoma 4 wins ○○○●○● Y1w Kakuryu ●○●○○○ Y2e Harumafuji ○●●○○□ S1e Tamawashi ○○●○●○ S2e Kotoshogiku ●○○○●○ M6e Chiyonokuni ●○○●○○ M8w Okinoumi ○○●●○○ M13w Daishomaru ○●○○●○ M15w Tokushoryu We're starting to separate the men from the boys here. Kisenosato is looking strong so far and the beauty of it is that Takayasu is his stablemate, so he won't have to deal with him. He's really only got 3 matches to worry about and I wouldn't be shocked if a Harumafuji or Kakuryu pull out if they have a couple of bad days in a row. I feel like if Kise gets to last few days without any losses, this tournament is his. He has a lot of things working in his favor right now with Takayasu doing his dirty work for him and the Yokozuna all struggling, and he's capitalizing on it. A win for Takayasu is a win for Kisenosato. Takayasu's win today was pretty straightforward and a really good showing for him. I'd dare say its one of his best wins as he came up big in crunch time. He still has got Kakuryu and Harumafuji left, which could be an easy 2 losses but it's up to him to not take any stupid losses along the way. I still see him going around 12-3ish, but overall it looks like it is going to be a very good basho for him. Disappointed by Terunofuji today as he just didn't seem alert. That one will cost him, but he should be able to stay in contention. Ura-Ishiura wasn't much of anything unfortunately. Not a great looking day for Ichinojo. Just seemed back to his lazy self. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,669 Posted March 17, 2017 45 minutes ago, Frakazu said: In the six basho era, there were to ozeki promotions started with an 7-8 as sekiwake: Wakahaguro May 1995 - November 1959 Kaiketsu Sept 1974 - March 1975 http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&n_basho=4&form1_rank=s&form1_year=1958-2017&form2_rank=k&form2_year=1958-2017&form3_rank=s&form3_year=1958-2017&form4_rank=o&form4_year=1958-2017 Well, pretty much by definition they didn't "start" with the makekoshi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
808morgan 814 Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Rocks said: The other thing I am wondering about is Ichinojo. Maybe his back started acting up again. Yeah he looked very different at the start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
808morgan 814 Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Nekoyama said: This is a dumb question, I'm pretty sure. Am I the only one to think that Kaisei's a dumba$$ for coming back this basho and not just sitting it out? I mean, for real. He sure didn't look very fit... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,937 Posted March 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Asashosakari said: Well, pretty much by definition they didn't "start" with the makekoshi... Why not? Both 7-8 as sekiwake, followed by 11-4/12-3 as komusubi and 12-3/11-4 as sekiwake. Takayasu did 7-8 as sekiwake and 11-4 as komusubi, now he is 6-0 as sekiwake. Looks like a pattern. The difference is, that this is Takayasu's 3rd basho as sekiwake and overall 7th in sanyaku. The others had 12, resp. 16 basho before reaching Ozeki. So he is quicker getting to a possible promotion and had better numbers in the basho before the run. Takayasu K11-4 S10-5 S7-8 K11-4 S6-0 Wakahaguro M10-5 K10-5 S7-8 K11-4 S12-3 Kaiketsu S8-7 S8-7 S7-8 K12-3 S11-4 Compared to Wakahaguro and Kaiketsu he definitely is promotionworthy. End of story. IF they promote him is a new story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted March 17, 2017 I remember Kaiketsu's (first) promotion to Ozeki. One big difference was that in January 1975 there were only 2 Yokozunae and only 1 Ozeki. Need does play a big part in promotions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,669 Posted March 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, Benihana said: Why not? Because the whole idea that an "ozeki run" consists of exactly three tournaments plainly doesn't apply to those cases. In Wakahaguro's days the promotion criteria were a lot more obscure - you can find rikishi who got promoted with 28 wins in their last three pre-promotion tournaments, while others were not promoted with as many as 33 wins. That should make it obvious that these promotion decisions weren't actually based on three tournament results. As for Kaiketsu's promotion, Bumpkin already pointed out the exceptional circumstances. There is no use in comparing current ozeki candidates to Wakahaguro and Kaiketsu. So, yes, theoretically they could promote Takayasu after this basho, and it would be based on his last two (not three) results - or if you want to go that far, perhaps on his last five. The problem with that idea is that there's absolutely no pressing reason to do it: Takayasu is not a veteran with a history of close misses in promotion opportunities, he's not even much of a regular in the sanyaku ranks yet, and there's no particular need for an additional ozeki at this time. There's not even any potential feelgood story here. The only box that could be ticked by Takayasu's recent tournament run is "finished with a yusho"; I highly doubt that's enough. I even agree that something like 11-4, 10-5, 7-8, 11-4, 13-2 Y in consecutive sanyaku tournaments would be a perfectly fine demonstration of ozeki capabilities, but it makes little sense to look at 40- or 60-year-old situations to justify that opinion. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted March 17, 2017 On 3/15/2017 at 07:52, YoungSumo said: Meanwhile in Sandamne though, Midorifuji's consecutive winstreak from entry into sumo was halted at 15. Stablemate Nishikifuji is still going strong at 16 and continues chasing Jokoryu's record of 27 consecutive wins from entry into sumo. Sd19e Nishikifuji lost on day 5. Jokuryu's record is safe. BTW Jokuryu is now 3-0. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwale 419 Posted March 17, 2017 Ok, now I've finally seen all the makuuchi matches (thanks Kinta) and yeah, wow, so much good stuff in that first half. I'm not really sure I can pick a favorite in this case. That Chiyoshoma match was just "Mwah!" gorgeous, though. Shodai's win was also very cool. Definitely the most exciting day of the basho so far, for me anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,937 Posted March 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: Because the whole idea that an "ozeki run" consists of exactly three tournaments plainly doesn't apply to those cases. In Wakahaguro's days the promotion criteria were a lot more obscure - you can find rikishi who got promoted with 28 wins in their last three pre-promotion tournaments, while others were not promoted with as many as 33 wins. That should make it obvious that these promotion decisions weren't actually based on three tournament results. As for Kaiketsu's promotion, Bumpkin already pointed out the exceptional circumstances. There is no use in comparing current ozeki candidates to Wakahaguro and Kaiketsu. So, yes, theoretically they could promote Takayasu after this basho, and it would be based on his last two (not three) results - or if you want to go that far, perhaps on his last five. The problem with that idea is that there's absolutely no pressing reason to do it: Takayasu is not a veteran with a history of close misses in promotion opportunities, he's not even much of a regular in the sanyaku ranks yet, and there's no particular need for an additional ozeki at this time. There's not even any potential feelgood story here. The only box that could be ticked by Takayasu's recent tournament run is "finished with a yusho"; I highly doubt that's enough. I even agree that something like 11-4, 10-5, 7-8, 11-4, 13-2 Y in consecutive sanyaku tournaments would be a perfectly fine demonstration of ozeki capabilities, but it makes little sense to look at 40- or 60-year-old situations to justify that opinion. You have a point with the different promotion criteria, but 40 or 60 years ago also the competition was different. Both had only 4 Y/Os to deal with. A big plus for Takayasu in my view. I don't think he should be promoted, because i think it should be 3 KK with at least 2 of them dd. If nothing weird happens, we will see him as Ozeki in Nagoya after a 3rd consecutive dd KK in may. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: I even agree that something like 11-4, 10-5, 7-8, 11-4, 13-2 Y in consecutive sanyaku tournaments would be a perfectly fine demonstration of ozeki capabilities, but it makes little sense to look at 40- or 60-year-old situations to justify that opinion. I'd say this is ozeki worthy too but a big part of these things is timing. What is going on. Kisenosato's just being promoted, doesn't help. Giku going down? Might help. A Yokozuna going intai? Might help. The real problem is though a new ozeki isn't needed. There are a number who seem like they'll be beating on the door soon. There won't be a shortage of ozeki any time soon even if there are only 2 now. Given how he's been lately, I feel very strongly Takyasu will be one of them. BUT, a playoff win at 15-0? Over your senpai? Leading to a promotion to ozeki? That's a good story line. That sells tickets. Maybe then. Big maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,855 Posted March 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rocks said: BUT, a playoff win at 15-0? Over your senpai? Leading to a promotion to ozeki? That's a good story line. That sells tickets. Maybe then. Big maybe. I've been wondering about a possible Kise vs Taka play-off (which is becoming less unlikely each day they remain unbeaten), but has there ever been a zensho play-off in makuuchi (i.e. 2 heya mates at 15-0)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted March 17, 2017 5 hours ago, kassidilla said: Can anyone explain to me why whenever someone gets seriously hurt everyone just stands around poking them and hoping they magically come to life? Last basho when people got knocked out they just stood there. I know there is the sumo spirit of being able to get up and bow, but surely in a professional sport there would be people smart enough to recognize serious injuries and help instead of just standing around? Someone who has more direct interaction with the Japanese than I would have a better idea, but I think this inactivity may be a cultural thing - if it's not specifically your job, don't get involved and stay out of the way. (don't bring attention to yourself) It appeared to me that everyone was looking for someone to tell them what to do. The first guy who checked on him kept looking for someone to tell him what to do (not that I'd know what to do if sent out to get someone twice my size back on his feet). It's only when the older guy (bottom of the video - he stopped to take his shoes off) came up that anything began to happen. Perhaps an oyakata, perhaps his oyakata? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,109 Posted March 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, RabidJohn said: I've been wondering about a possible Kise vs Taka play-off (which is becoming less unlikely each day they remain unbeaten), but has there ever been a zensho play-off in makuuchi (i.e. 2 heya mates at 15-0)? There has not been a single tournament in the 15-day era where two sekitori went 15-0. http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=2&form1_wins=15 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted March 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Gurowake said: There has not been a single tournament in the 15-day era where two sekitori went 15-0. http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=2&form1_wins=15 Yeah, closest it: Takanohana Futagoyama 1997.11 Y1e 14-1 D Takanonami Futagoyama 1997.11 O1w 14-1 Y Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,511 Posted March 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, Gurowake said: There has not been a single tournament in the 15-day era where two sekitori went 15-0. http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=2&form1_wins=15 ......yet. Mwa ha ha ha! *begins writing the script for the next basho* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
