72nd Yokozuna Kisenosato preparation thread

[rhyen 1,823]

One of the last photo of 6 ozeki together. 
Symmetrically, 3 have been promoted and 3 have been demoted before going intai.
 

 

[Tochinofuji 375]

5 hours ago, Swami said:

The consecutive yusho or "equivalent records" doesn't necessarily ensure a strong yokozuna - think Wakanohana III.  Likewise, the three-basho total of wins - both Wakanohana II and Onokuni won 40 over three basho..

I'd like to think Kisenosato, now he has the monkey off his back in terms of the yusho, will grow into the rank.

 

Swami

While I'd like to think he has shaken the monkey off his back, as it were, I think he may well find the pressure of being a yokozuna even worse. I've never been a huge fan, but I would like to see him thrive in the role; I'm just not convinced his mental issues are behind him. 

[Andreas21 183]

Great achievement of Kisenosato, the promotion well-overdue. In a normal ranking list like for instance in Tennis etc. he would have been the No. 1 since about a year.

In my view, the only real question mark with respect to different standards is the non-promotion of Kaio. Kaio had great results in 2001-2004 with 5 Yushos, during the emergence of a terribly dominant Dai-Yokozuna. The quality of the results could even be considered better than Kisenosato's now if it weren't for the injury bashos. But that is a distinctive argument in favor of Kisenosato, the remarkable absence of injuries.

It's up to the YDC and the Kyokai. It's debatable but I like the concept. It takes into account circumstances which is good.

 

[Seijakuzan 59]

2 hours ago, rhyen said:

One of the last photo of 6 ozeki together. 
Symmetrically, 3 have been promoted and 3 have been demoted before going intai.

Did I miss Kotoshogiku announcing his intai?  I know they're speculating he might, but I hadn't heard anything definitive yet.  Great photo either way.. I remember when it came out.

 

2 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

In my view, the only real question mark with respect to different standards is the non-promotion of Kaio. Kaio had great results in 2001-2004 with 5 Yushos, during the emergence of a terribly dominant Dai-Yokozuna. The quality of the results could even be considered better than Kisenosato's now if it weren't for the injury bashos. But that is a distinctive argument in favor of Kisenosato, the remarkable absence of injuries.

Kaio is obviously the best measuring stick to use for Kisenosato, because otherwise - if Kisenosato never got promoted - he would likely eventually surpass Kaio as the winningest/most consistent ozeki in history.  But I also think that Kaio's record confirms that they made the right decision in promoting Kise, because like you implied Kaio was inconsistent, especially with the injuries.  The closest he came was this block:

2004.03	O1w		13-2 J	Jun-Yusho (10th)	185 cm 175 kg
2004.05	O1w		10-5
2004.07	O1e		11-4
2004.09	O1e		13-2 Y	Yusho (5th)
2004.11	O1e		12-3 J	Jun-Yusho (11th)
2005.01	O1e		4-6-5

..and he may have been promoted if he had gone on to repeat a 12-3 JY in the 2005.01 basho.  But like all his other yusho performances, they were sandwiched with 9-6 or 10-5 performances or dropping out due to injuries.  I don't think anyone has come closer than him or Konishiki, but with hindsight being 20/20 both would have retired much sooner if they had been promoted and then repeated the records they had after their best shot for promotion.  If Kise keeps putting up 12-3 and 13-2 performances without resorting to half-henkas or pulling, and with 4 yokozunae, the YDC will be more than pleased with his performance - especially if he notches another couple yusho in the years ahead.

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

1 minute ago, Seijakuzan said:

3 hours ago, rhyen said:

One of the last photo of 6 ozeki together. 
Symmetrically, 3 have been promoted and 3 have been demoted before going intai.

Did I miss Kotoshogiku announcing his intai?  I know they're speculating he might, but I hadn't heard anything definitive yet.

Whenever Kotoshogiku will actually quit, the statement is true nevertheless.

[ryafuji 810]

15 minutes ago, Seijakuzan said:

..and he may have been promoted if he had gone on to repeat a 12-3 JY in the 2005.01 basho.

Kaio was set a specific target of 13 wins for that tournament.

[Seijakuzan 59]

2 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Kaio was set a specific target of 13 wins for that tournament.

Thanks, I was just guesstimating as I was still years away from discovering sumo at that time   Looks like my gut feeling was pretty close.

[RabidJohn 1,718]

20 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm not sure it was a fashion to promote only with 2 yusho so much as a coincidence. Yes, every yok from Asahifuji to Harumafuji has 2 consecutive yusho, but if you look at the yusho-winning ozeki none of them had anything like consistent enough overall records to be promoted, even those with more than 1 - then there was Kakuryu.

Actually I forgot about Konishiki. His 6-basho record was 14-1D, 12-3, 11-4, 13-2Y, 12-3, 13-2Y, which was bloody excellent and more than deserving of promotion, but there were other considerations. The disaster of Futahaguro and the disappointment of Onokuni were still fresh in everyone's mind, Asahifuji was on the verge of intai after a very short tenure, and Konishiki was the 1st gaijin candidate... I can understand their reticence.

It's another good example of how the particular conditions pertaining at the time have a big influence on yokozuna promotions.

Edited January 24, 2017 by RabidJohn

[Sakura 1,480]

4 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Actually I forgot about Konishiki. His 6-basho record was 14-1D, 12-3, 11-4, 13-2Y, 12-3, 13-2Y, which was bloody excellent and more than deserving of promotion, but there were other considerations. The disaster of Futahaguro and the disappointment of Onokuni were still fresh in everyone's mind, Asahifuji was on the verge of intai after a very short tenure, and Konishiki was the 1st gaijin candidate... I can understand their reticence.

It's another good example of how the particular conditions pertaining at the time have a big influence on yokozuna promotions.

There are more things to consider than just results. Konishiki may well have been promoted if he was around now with that record, but as you say there are other considerations. A Yokozuna has to also lead with dignity. That's what I see with Kisenosato. People may not like his generally unsmiling stoic face, but I think he's actually showing a dignity acceptable to his rank. I don't know if he's religious or not, but I've always thought that his thanks to the gods after winning a bout seemed much more genuine. When he takes the envelopes he never over-does it. He seems to accept it with, again, thankfulness and respect. Appearances can count for a lot.

[Harry 67]

Kisenosato has hinkaku for sure. He shows his emotions more than he should because he can't control them that well but the emotions he shows are not negative ones, they are things like tears of happiness. I can't recall him ever giving an extra shove to his aite or grabbing the envelopes and turning away in disgust.

I wish him well in the future and hope that the rope isn't extra weight and pressure on him.

[Rocks 1,807]

Konishiki's record for that stretch certainly made him deserving but timing was terrible for him. Had there been a strong yokozuna, from wherever, who could be the face of sumo they might have promoted him. As it was to make someone like Konishiki the face of sumo, with him on every poster, could have been disastrous from a PR standpoint. Konishiki was, even by sumo standards, grossly overweight. There was nothing athletic in his appearance.  For a sport that suffers with the perception of being a bunch of fat guys wrestling in their underwear making Konishiki the sole yokozuna was simply not possible. Had he managed to put a yusho and a decent followup together after Akebano was promoted he may have been promoted himself I think. But he never did.

Was Konishiki discriminated against? I think so. But considering how quickly they raised Akebano up I don't think it had anything to do with race. 

[RabidJohn 1,718]

Apart from having to get used to doing ceremonial dohyo-iri outside in freezing conditions, all Kise has to do is carry on in the same vein! The yusho will come and he will be a popular and reasonably successful yokozuna, setting a great example for all with his dignity and ability.

And I don't know about him not being able to control his emotions. I cannot talk while I'm crying - not normally anyway - but Kise just carried on in his yusho interview with tears streaming down his face (Goeido did the same) - that's at least a measure of control! Hak really struggled in his emotional 36th yusho interview...

[Seijakuzan 59]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

And I don't know about him not being able to control his emotions. I cannot talk while I'm crying - not normally anyway - but Kise just carried on in his yusho interview with tears streaming down his face (Goeido did the same) - that's at least a measure of control! Hak really struggled in his emotional 36th yusho interview...

I've seen videos of Chiyonofuji crying, and if there was ever a Chuck Norris of sumo...

[Chiyozakura 130]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

Konishiki's record for that stretch certainly made him deserving but timing was terrible for him.

Konishiki's numbers look better than they were in reality. In the span of 13-2Y, 12-3, 13-2Y he did not face a single Yokozuna and only one Ozeki. The crucial basho for him was the 12-3. Although the record looks good on paper he did pretty badly. His Yokozuna hopes were gone already after the first week when he was 4-3. The Yusho was won by a teenaged Maegashira with the runner-up being a 22-year old Komusubi who so far had not done better than 9-6 in his Makuuchi career. The next generation had already prematurely overtaken him in that tournament. That is far from the story you want to hear about a new Yokozuna. And the subsequent results showed how right they were in not promoting him.

There were a lot of concerns that Konishiki could not handle pressure well, that his sumo lacked a good technique, that he was too inconsistent for a Yokozuna and that his enormous weight was a huge risk for a long-lasting career. His original shisho said that he needed to make Yokozuna before age 26 because he was sure Konishiki would not last long. Especially in regards to the claims of racism it is very interesting to read the Sumo World issues of that time. They clearly stated what the expectation for Konishiki was before those basho and how he failed to achieve them.

The only thing Konishiki and Kisenosato have in common is the reputation of a choker. But the current competition is a lot tougher than in 1991 and 1992. There are three Yokozuna who all have won a Yusho last year plus two Ozeki who won one. Still Kisenosato got the best record in the calender year. I agree with everyone here who says it is not the most convincing Yokozuna promotion but I still think he deserves it. He has been a Yokozuna level rikishi for quite some time, he has a reliable style and now he has proven himself a Yusho winner. So congratulations to him and hopefully he will be able to handle the additional pressure that comes with being a Yokozuna.

[Rocks 1,807]

52 minutes ago, Chiyozakura said:

The Yusho was won by a teenaged Maegashira with the runner-up being a 22-year old Komusubi who so far had not done better than 9-6 in his Makuuchi career.

I don't think he should have been made Yokozuna and I actually agree with the points you made but come on. This teenager and 22 year old would both have more Yusho and be Ozeki within a year. On the way to both becoming Yokozuna. Strictly by the numbers 38 wins and 2 Yusho, which had just been proceeded by 37 wins along with a !4-1 playoff loss and a jun yusho, more than meet the number criteria for promotion IMHO. Konishiki's problem was never than he hadn't won enough to be made Yokozuna. His problem was he wasn't a Yokozuna.

[rhyen 1,823]

Just announced on the news: NSK executive meeting crowns the 72nd Yokozuna, Kisenosato. 

[rhyen 1,823]

Now that the tachimochi (Takayasu), tsuruharai (Shohozan) & teacher (Shibatayama oyakata) have been decided; anyone wants to take a guess at the weight of the rope?

[Rocks 1,807]

It's official. The YDC has given birth to the 72 Yokozuna named Rare Village.

[inhashi 2,363]

Live coverage on Fuji TV now to anyone interested
http://mov3.co/ja/fujitv/

[whtbox 10]

Really happy for him and also a right time for me to start following the recent basho and witnessing his making into Yokozuna. 

[rhyen 1,823]

Did anyone catch his "Yokozuna vow" phrase or did he just say a simple thank you?

 

稀勢の里：横綱の名に恥じぬよう精進致します

Edited January 25, 2017 by rhyen

[Rocks 1,807]

This is the worst live coverage I've ever seen. It's literally 98% commercials.

[inhashi 2,363]

Congratulations to Kisenosato.  He looked a little nervous before Kasugano and Takadagawa arrived to deliver the news.  He wanted to keep it simple and sweet and simple it was...  maybe a little awkward being new to this and all 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MshPS03IXYs

Edited January 25, 2017 by inhashi

[Akinomaki 40,030]

the 1080p videos so far

ANN (Asahi) has a whole series of news videos of the press conference of joy of the new yokozuna

the news of the ceremony itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSejjZYZ3Y

Apparently the broadcast rights have been divided - and there is no Kyodo news video yet

from the live broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Q56rNh92c

BTW, here as usual all media posts by John Gunning are empty blank spaces without even a link to grasp

Edited January 25, 2017 by Akinomaki

[Senkoho 552]

6 minutes ago, John Gunning said:

I think we've established the issue is on your end. Other people can see them no problem even those who have no Facebook account.. All settings are public and the page is published with no audience restriction.

 

I can't see them either. Instead I'm getting some Finnish message about Facebook.