Gurowake 4,154 Posted January 20, 2017 39 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: I'm not positive, but I think the maezumo rikishi are simply listed in the order that their shisho were signing them up with the Kyokai. In this case that relative order between Nishikifuji and Midorifuji has persisted through their Mz and Jk results. So, Nishikifuji can blame Isegahama-oyakata here. They don't care about that in the lower divisions. (Maybe they should.) For an example, see the Jonokuchi playoff from Nagoya 2012, which was won by the guy who was half a rank lower - and he was still half a rank lower on the next banzuke. If they care about it for Yokozuna (which they do), they should care about it precisely in this circumstance where the only reason one is ranked ahead of the other is that one of them has to be and there's some default like who got signed up first. It would be interesting to see how common it is in Jonokuchi (where it might feasibly happen at 6-1 as well as zensho) compared to at Yokozuna (and theoretically the rest of sanyaku, which I doubt has ever happened), because the latter hasn't happened in quite a while despite there being 3 of them for nearly 3 years now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,287 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Day 12 (results, text-only results): 5-6-1 Kakuryu Y1 Harumafuji 4-3-5 10-2 Hakuho Y2 11-1 Kisenosato O1 Goeido 8-4 4-8 Terunofuji O2 They say Ikioi looks a bit like Hakuho, so maybe today's hard-fought victory counts as a successful dress rehearsal for Kisenosato, who maintains his position atop the yusho race. The real Hakuho had an easy day at the ofifice, making short work of Tochiozan to stay in touch. Goeido's already minor yusho hopes were end(o)ed, which puts an interesting twist on his matchup with Kisenosato tomorrow - Go doesn't have much to fight for, but of course Kisenosato's mental issues against exactly such opponents are well-documented... (Edit: And right after sending this off, I see that Goeido will be withdrawing from that bout. D'oh.) It was a makekoshi-rich environment elsewhere in the joi today, with Takarafuji, Shohozan and Arawashi all checking out of the KK/sanyaku race, and more importantly both Terunofuji and Kotoshogiku also dropping to 4-8. The former will be kadoban again, for the 4th time in 7 tournaments (which ties a very suspect all-time record held by Kaio and Musoyama), while Giku's ozeki tenure is ending altogether. It remains to be seen if he'll take the shot at 10 wins next basho or retires altogether. He's still not quite safe, but Mitakeumi took a big step towards a return to the titled ranks today with win #9 against Takarafuji. Komusubi Takayasu improved to 9-3 as well, but also hasn't secured the step up yet. Shodai avoided the makekoshi for now and keeps his chances of staying on as sekiwake for March. Further down the maegashira ranks it's double-digit territory (and perhaps yusho hopes) for Takanoiwa and Ichinojo after today, while Sokokurai was sent down by Chiyoshoma in a very entertaining bout. O2 Kotoshogiku 4-8 (x) 7-5 Tamawashi S Shodai 5-7 9-3 Takayasu K Tochinoshin 0-6-6 (x) (x) 4-8 Takarafuji M1 Mitakeumi 9-3 (x) 4-8 Shohozan M2 Arawashi 4-8 (x) M3 Ikioi 7-5 M4 Endo 6-6 8-4 Takekaze M5 Yoshikaze 6-6 M6 M7 8-4 Hokutofuji M8 M9 10-2 Takanoiwa M10 Sokokurai 9-3 M11 M12 M13 Ichinojo 10-2 The top 3 roundrobin between Hakuho, Kisenosato and Goeido starts up tomorrow, although only the two ozeki are in action for now. Hakuho meets Kotoshogiku instead, and it wouldn't surprise me too much if that turns out to be the ozeki's final appearance. Takanoiwa gets his first test of the basho, going up against Takayasu, while Ichinojo is spared for now and only has to contend against mid-maegashira Chiyoshoma. Ishiura showed his mettle today, dispatching Chiyotairyu with his superior tachiai approach, and has secured himself another makuuchi tournament. Chiyoo was successful against juryo visitor Hidenoumi, so none of the maegashira need to win all the way through the long final weekend. Still, there are plenty of them still in danger and even a 2-1 finish is never a given. We do "need" one more slot already, thanks to Daieisho and Ura moving up to 9-3 in tandem today, beating veterans Kitataiki and Aminishiki. (And I do have to say, as bad as Kitataiki's 2-10 record is, he's consistently part of some of the most entertaining juryo bouts this basho...) Kyokushuho and Tokushoryu were also victorious on Day 12 and are the next-best contenders. The top-ranked pair Toyohibiki and Hidenoumi will find it hard to join them now, both one loss away from makekoshi. M9 Ishiura 5-7 (o) M10 M11 Nishikigi 4-8 (2) (1) 5-7 Takakeisho M12 Daishomaru 5-7 (1) (2) 4-8 Gagamaru M13 (1) 6-6 Chiyootori M14 Chiyotairyu 5-7 (2) (2) 5-7 Chiyoo M15 Sadanoumi 7-5 (1) (x) 3-9 Osunaarashi M16 --- (3) 5-7 Toyohibiki J1 Hidenoumi 5-7 (3) (2) 7-5 Kyokushuho J2 Daieisho 9-3 (o) (o) 9-3 Ura J3 Chiyomaru 5-7 (~) J4 J5 Onosho 7-5 (3) (~) 7-5 Oyanagi J6 J7 (2) 10-2 Tokushoryu J8 Tsurugisho 7-5 (x) J9 Amakaze 8-4 (~) J10 (x) 8-4 Homarefuji J11 A bit of a surprising cross-division matchup has been set for tomorrow, in which KK-trending Kyokushuho goes up against Osunaarashi rather than one of the bubble maegashira. And I suppose I'll drop the juryo yusho race update in here since the rest of the races were already covered earlier today: 10-2 Tokushoryu9-3 Daieisho, Ura8-4 Amakaze, Homarefuji, Daiamami Tokushoryu took care of one more pretender to the throne, sending Daiamami to two wins off the pace. Homarefuji also fell back but has the suspense of the race in his hands tomorrow as he is the leader's next opponent. Ura and Amakaze are also matched up among the contenders, while Daieisho gets a superficially easy bout against Amuru, and Daiamami has to deal with former collegiate rival Oyanagi. Speaking of Amuru, today he was successful against Wakanoshima who - adding insult to injury (or maybe injury to insult...) - not only went makekoshi to pick up his ticket back to makushita, but also seemed to have twisted his ankle or something in the process, limping down the hanamichi after the bout. Asahisho is also in major danger now after Amakaze blasted him off the dohyo (twice). The newcomer duo Rikishin and Terutsuyoshi has linked up at 5-7, the former winning today and the latter losing, and both now need to win twice more. Down in makushita it was a productive day for Kitaharima despite not stepping on the dohyo, as the appearance of a second demotee has now secured his immediate return to the paid ranks after last basho's demotion. (1) 2-10 Kitataiki J5 ... (1) 5-7 Amuru J10 J11 (3) 4-8 Asahisho J12 Rikishin 5-7 (2) (2) 5-7 Terutsuyoshi J13 (x) 4-8 Wakanoshima J14 Kizenryu 4-8 (x) (o) 4-2 Kitaharima Ms1 Ms2 4-2 Fujiazuma Ms3 Tochimaru 3-3 3-3 Daishoho Ms4 Takagenji 4-2 3-3 Shiba Ms5 Ms6 Toyonoshima 5-1 Ms7 Ishibashi 6-0 As usual there's not much action in the promotion zone on Day 13: Ishibashi's yusho run will of course see its conclusion (one way or another), Fujiazuma takes a trip to juryo to meet Terutsuyoshi, and Kitaharima finishes up his basho against a lower-ranked opponent in youngster Goshi. Edited January 20, 2017 by Asashosakari 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,287 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Ex-sekitori results through Day 12: 4-2 Ms1e Kitaharima (Yamahibiki, 30, 1) 2-5 Ms1w Asasekiryu (Takasago, 35, 1) 2-4 Ms2e Asabenkei (Takasago, 27, 2) 4-2 Ms3e Fujiazuma (Tamanoi, 29, 2) 3-3 Ms4e Daishoho (Oitekaze, 22, 1) 3-3 Ms6e Meisei (Tatsunami, 21, 1) 5-1 Ms6w Toyonoshima (Tokitsukaze, 33, 2) 1-5 Ms7e Shotenro (Fujishima, 34, 5) 0-6 Ms9e Sadanofuji (Sakaigawa, 32, 1) 5-1 Ms9w Akiseyama (Kise, 31, 4) 1-5 Ms12w Tenkaiho (Onoe, 32, 4) 4-2 Ms13e Shimanoumi (Kise, 27, 3) 4-2 Ms13w Tochihiryu (Kasugano, 29, 12) 2-4 Ms15w Jokoryu (Kise, 28, 4) 3-3 Ms16e Sakigake (Shibatayama, 30, 12) 4-2 Ms17e Dewahayate (Dewanoumi, 27, 3) 2-4 Ms17w Kagamio (Kagamiyama, 28, 4) 2-4 Ms22w Nionoumi (Yamahibiki, 30, 21) 1-5 Ms23e Oiwato (Hakkaku, 35, 19) 4-2 Ms23w Tokushinho (Kise, 32, 7) 5-1 Ms24e Abi (Shikoroyama, 22, 8) 2-4 Ms27e Sotairyu (Tokitsukaze, 34, 11) 3-3 Ms31e Higonojo (Kise, 32, 16) 4-2 Ms32e Chiyoarashi (Kokonoe, 25, 21)0-1-5 Ms33e Hishofuji (Azumazeki, 27, 32) 2-4 Ms33w Dewaotori (Dewanoumi, 31, 61) 5-1 Ms39w Takaryu (Kise, 24, 9) 4-2 Ms45e Kotomisen (Sadogatake, 33, 19) 5-1 Ms46e Keitenkai (Onomatsu, 26, 26) 5-1 Ms47e Sagatsukasa (Irumagawa, 35, 17) 2-4 Ms47w Yoshiazuma (Tamanoi, 39, 14) 2-4 Sd5w Masakaze (Oguruma, 33, 25) 2-4 Sd6e Hitenryu (Tatsunami, 32, 32) 2-4 Sd8w Kaonishiki (Azumazeki, 38, 32)kyujo Sd50e Masunoyama (Chiganoura, 26, 11) 6-0 Sd65e Dairaido (Takadagawa, 36, 62) Curtains for Asasekiryu? Edited January 20, 2017 by Asashosakari 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 67 Posted January 20, 2017 Was just going to ask about whether we'd seen the last of Asasekiryu. Likely. What about Sadanofuji? 32 years old, winless... could be the last for him too? And Jokoryu still not really back from his injury? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robnplunder 978 Posted January 20, 2017 Was anyone ever demoted with kachi-koshi, say with an 8-7 record and rikishi above and below his rank all having justifiably good record? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,849 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Harry said: Was just going to ask about whether we'd seen the last of Asasekiryu. Likely. I thought he might continue even with bigger makekoshi if no other from Takasago makes it to sekitori to have the blank end - but now we have Ishibashi, so it should be the end for Asasekiryu. Edited January 20, 2017 by Akinomaki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungSumo 93 Posted January 20, 2017 Ms7w Ishibashi is the sole 7-0 in Makushita. Yusho is a fact and promotion to Juryo should happen as well. Sd16w Takemasa is in the same situation as Ishibashi. Sandamne Yusho get. Probable promotion, not as knowledgable on the Sandamne to Makushita promotion process. Jd10e Nishikifuji and Jd10w Midorifuji continue their undefeated streak and will face each other in a play-off for the second straight basho, only this time for the Jonidan Yusho instead of the Jonokuchi Yusho. Last time Nishikifuji won, let's see what happens this time. Speaking of the Jonokuchi Yusho, it will be decided with a play-off between former Makushita Wakanayama and newcomer Narutaki. Both are 6-1. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 825 Posted January 20, 2017 7 hours ago, robnplunder said: Was anyone ever demoted with kachi-koshi, say with an 8-7 record and rikishi above and below his rank all having justifiably good record? No, a kachi-koshi guarantees you will not be demoted. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morningstar 118 Posted January 20, 2017 Takayasu is making a strong case for promoting him back to Sekiwake, with 10 wins so far and 2 days left. If he can get another win or two in, I do not see them not promoting him. This will have the added benefit of freeing up a Komusubi slot for Mitakeumi. The big question is how far will Shodai fall? If he wins all of his remaining matches, then they should only demote him one spot to Komusubi. So we have scenarios with 3 Sekiwake's, 3 Komusubi's , some over demotion/under promotions, or some combination there of. The easiest thing to happen, is for Shodai to lose another match or two, and Kotoshogiku to announce his retirement. I expect neither. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted January 20, 2017 1 hour ago, ryafuji said: No, a kachi-koshi guarantees you will not be demoted. Other than "demotion" from East to West in Sanyaku. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 433 Posted January 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Morningstar said: Takayasu is making a strong case for promoting him back to Sekiwake, with 10 wins so far and 2 days left. If he can get another win or two in, I do not see them not promoting him. He needs at least one more victory... "only" 10 will not automatically give him a S slot, by the queries I ran in SumoDB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morningstar 118 Posted January 20, 2017 42 minutes ago, bettega said: He needs at least one more victory... "only" 10 will not automatically give him a S slot, by the queries I ran in SumoDB I agree, 10 is not a guarantee. None the less, it is still a very strong case for promotion. And, as good a case for promotion as Mitakeumi has to a potential 3rd Komusubi spot if Takayasu is not promoted. It will all depend on how many more matches Shodai loses, and then if Kotoshogiku announces his retirement before the next Banzuki is made. If neither cooperate, then they will have some hard decisions to make. I favor opening extra slots in the lower titled ranks. They may take another stance. There is no sure way to tell, until they release the new rankings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,810 Posted January 20, 2017 If Shodai can get a couple more wins they should have Tamawashi, Shodai, Takyasu, Kotoshogiku and 10 win Mitakeumi as Sekiwake. Then every other maegashira who gets 10 wins as Komusubi. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted January 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, Rocks said: If Shodai can get a couple more wins they should have Tamawashi, Shodai, Takyasu, Kotoshogiku and 10 win Mitakeumi as Sekiwake. Then every other maegashira who gets 10 wins as Komusubi. No. Won't happen. Too many Sekiwake. Shodai has 8 losses. He will be demoted. Takayasu needs one more win to "force" promotion to Sekiwake. Mitakeumi is out as well. There will be Tamawashi, Takayasu and Kotoshogiku (if he does not retire) as Sekiwake in March. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,810 Posted January 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bumpkin said: No. Won't happen. Too many Sekiwake. Shodai has 8 losses. He will be demoted. Takayasu needs one more win to "force" promotion to Sekiwake. Mitakeumi is out as well. There will be Tamawashi, Takayasu and Kotoshogiku (if he does not retire) as Sekiwake in March. What if I said please? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morningstar 118 Posted January 20, 2017 36 minutes ago, Rocks said: What if I said please? Shodai needs to win all of his remaining matches to ensure he is only demoted to Komusubi. There is so little chance of he maintains a Sekiwake rank, that only a physicist could measure it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,287 Posted January 21, 2017 Day 13 (results, text-only results): 5-6-2 Kakuryu Y1 Harumafuji 4-3-6 11-2 Hakuho Y2 12-1 Kisenosato O1 Goeido 8-5 4-9 Terunofuji O2 Yokozuna Hakuho didn't have a lot of trouble with departing ozeki Kotoshogiku and picked up win #11 to stay right behind leader Kisenosato who didn't have to do anything but show up today, due to Goeido's withdrawal with knee issues. I wish I had more to write more in this paragraph, but all other top-rankers are now either out or deep in MK territory... The two sekiwake went their separate ways today, with Tamawashi clinching kachikoshi in an impressive victory over Ikioi, while his West counterpart fell to MK with a surprise loss against Okinoumi. (Maybe we shodai seen it coming...) Takayasu held back a strong challenge by Takanoiwa, moved into double-digit territory and should be able to force a promotion to sekiwake with one more shiroboshi now - or will get the slot outright if Kotoshogiku decides to retire, of course. Mitakeumi's hopes of a return to sanyaku suffered a setback as he failed to overcome low-rank opponent Sokokurai. O2 Kotoshogiku 4-9 (x) 8-5 Tamawashi S Shodai 5-8 10-3 Takayasu K Tochinoshin 0-6-7 (x) M1 Mitakeumi 9-4 M2 M3 Ikioi 7-6 M4 Endo 7-6 8-5 Takekaze M5 Yoshikaze 6-7 (x) M6 M7 (x) 8-5 Hokutofuji M8 M9 10-3 Takanoiwa M10 Sokokurai 10-3 M11 M12 M13 Ichinojo 10-3 With so many joi rikishi on the sickbed our last two contenders standing have both ended up with an opening in their torikumi for Day 14, and the schedulers did the sensible thing by matching them up with pursuers Takanoiwa (against Hak) and Ichinojo (against Kise). Of course, as Kinta already noted on his video, these matchups would have looked a bit more intriguing if the maegashira pair hadn't lost today... Both would need to beat their top-ranked foes tomorrow to maintain a shot at the yusho as the winner's score would otherwise be guaranteed to become at least 13-2. Four low maegashira entered the day in moderately big demotion danger, and proceeded to go 2-2 combined. Gagamaru and Chiyoo helped themselves to an improved position for the weekend, while Nishikigi and Chiyotairyu were beaten and now - at least theoretically - need to win both remaining bouts. The wildcard here may or may not be the size of the next sanyaku, or rather the possible reappearance of the M16w position. Another four maegashira were seeking their last needed victory already today, but only one managed to come through, so debutant Takakeisho can now plan for another makuuchi appearance. Over in juryo the likely third promotee has appeared with Kyokushuho who achieved kachikoshi in his top division visit against Osunaarashi. Toyohibiki and Hidenoumi at J1 both avoided MK for now and remain in the contest. M11 Nishikigi 4-9 (2) (o) 6-7 Takakeisho M12 Daishomaru 5-8 (1) (1) 5-8 Gagamaru M13 (1) 6-7 Chiyootori M14 Chiyotairyu 5-8 (2) (1) 6-7 Chiyoo M15 Sadanoumi 7-6 (1) (x) 3-10 Osunaarashi M16 --- (2) 6-7 Toyohibiki J1 Hidenoumi 6-7 (2) (1) 8-5 Kyokushuho J2 Daieisho 10-3 (o) (o) 10-3 Ura J3 Chiyomaru 6-7 (~) J4 J5 Onosho 8-5 (2) (x) 7-6 Oyanagi J6 J7 (2) 10-3 Tokushoryu J8 J9 Amakaze 8-5 (x) After Day 13's rather puzzling crossover bout we're in for choices that are both a bit more sensible and more likely to be entertaining tomorrow, as yusho-chasing Ura takes on Sadanoumi and Daieisho goes up against fellow youngster Takakeisho. Also of note: With Nishikigi and Gagamaru we'll have two demotion candidates going head-to-head. Asahisho's self-imposed three-day survival quest got off to a good start with a win over Seiro. He's getting company on the hot seat by Terutsuyoshi now, who was beaten by visiting Fujiazuma and now also needs to win both remaining matches. On the flipside it was a fruitful day for newbie Rikishin who beat Azumaryu easily to move within one win of safety, and even more so for veteran Kitataiki who had another decent showing to vanquish Ryuden for his last needed point. Down in makushita Ishibashi demonstrated his superiority over fellow yusho challenger Asahiryu, and easily claimed the second promotion slot alongside the championship. That was not so good news for Fujiazuma as there's no space for him at the moment despite his rank/record combination now being very promotable, but chances are that something will still open up for him, especially as he won't need to fear any traffic coming on from behind so he's guaranteed to be the third-best contender. (o) 3-10 Kitataiki J5 ... (1) 5-8 Amuru J10 J11 (2) 5-8 Asahisho J12 Rikishin 6-7 (1) (2) 5-8 Terutsuyoshi J13 (x) 4-9 Wakanoshima J14 Kizenryu 4-9 (x) (o) 5-2 Kitaharima Ms1 Ms2 5-2 Fujiazuma Ms3 Tochimaru 3-3 3-3 Daishoho Ms4 Takagenji 4-2 3-3 Shiba Ms5 Ms6 Toyonoshima 5-1 Ms7 Ishibashi 7-0 (o) Tochimaru has received the juryo visitor pass for tomorrow, where he will be going against Terutsuyoshi. Takagenji is in line to be the Day 15 choice, and he may be joined by Daishoho and Shiba - or they could be played off against each other for kachikoshi. Toyonoshima will also have to wait one more day for his final bout, in which he'll be meeting Akiseyama. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,810 Posted January 21, 2017 @Asashosakari I love these threads. They helpful they are for the games too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,287 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Juryo yusho race: 10-3 Daieisho, Ura, Tokushoryu9-4 Homarefuji, Daiamami 8-5 Kyokushuho, Onosho, Amakaze Courtesy of Homarefuji the race has become a lot more exciting again; his victory over Tokushoryu allowed both Daieisho and Ura to rejoin the lead. Looking at just the top 5 contenders, Tokushoryu is now done facing them, while some possibilities still remain for the others - namely Daieisho-Homarefuji and Daiamami-Ura (which would keep all four busy), plus alternatively Ura-Homarefuji. None of these have been scheduled for Day 14, which I hope means they're consciously holding them back for senshuraku. Anyway, there's some playoff potential here, perhaps even with same-stable participation by Ura/Tokushoryu or Daieisho/Daiamami . Lower division yusho races (Day 13 6-0 results and links to video where available...and the 5-1 bouts in jonokuchi): 7-0 Ms7w Ishibashi (Takasago) 6-1 Ms51e Asahiryu (Asahiyama) 7-0 Sd16w Takemasa (Onomatsu) 6-1 Sd65e Dairaido (Takadagawa) 6-1 Sd86w Haruhikari (Oitekaze) 7-0 Jd10e Nishikifuji (Isegahama)7-0 Jd10w Midorifuji (Isegahama) 6-1 Jd88w Byakkomaru (Tatsunami) 5-2 Jk2e Dewanosora (Dewanoumi)6-1 Jk16w Wakayama (Onomatsu)6-1 Jk17e Narutaki (Isenoumi) 5-2 Jk20e Teruju (Isegahama) 5-2 Jk20w Sakurafuji (Isegahama) Former collegiates will be taking three of these championships, with the exact winner of jonidan still to be determined in Nishikifuji's and Midorifuji playoff rematch from two months ago, after they both moved up to 7-0 today. Takemasa had little trouble with an overeager Dairaido, and won the sandanme yusho outright thanks to third contender Haruhikari getting taken out of the race earlier. Rounding out the proceedings was Ishibashi's emphatic victory in the makushita division. Jonokuchi saw the expected winners among the quintet of 5-1 rikishi so we're set for a playoff here as well, which will also be a rematch, albeit not from last basho but rather from Day 5 (where Narutaki prevailed over Wakayama). Edited January 21, 2017 by Asashosakari 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,858 Posted January 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Asashosakari said: Juryo yusho race: 10-3 Daieisho, Ura, Tokushoryu9-4 Homarefuji, Daiamami 8-5 Kyokushuho, Onosho, Amakaze Courtesy of Homarefuji the race has become a lot more exciting again; his victory over Tokushoryu allowed both Daieisho and Ura to rejoin the lead. Looking at just the top 5 contenders, Tokushoryu is now done facing them, while some possibilities still remain for the others - namely Daieisho-Homarefuji and Daiamami-Ura (which would keep all four busy), plus alternatively Ura-Homarefuji. None of these have been scheduled for Day 14, which I hope means they're consciously holding them back for senshuraku. Anyway, there's some playoff potential here, perhaps even with same-stable participation by Ura/Tokushoryu or Daieisho/Daiamami . Possible senshuraku matchup for Yusho/Kettei sen? Ura -Tokushoryu Homareguji - Daieisho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 662 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, ryafuji said: No, a kachi-koshi guarantees you will not be demoted. Unless there is a change in the number of ranks/slots in each division. For example, between Haru and Natsu 1967, Makuuchi went from M15w as the lowest to M12w as the lowest and Juryo from J18w to J13w. A quick glance here and here shows a number of rikishi that got KK and were "demoted." In reality they moved up (if you count # of rikishi from Y1e to Jk-last) but were moved from Juryo to Makushita. Edit: I remember this from years ago reading Jesse's book Takamiyama he had to get at least a 10-5 (he did) to remain in Juryo (and not go back to doing chores in Makushita). Edited January 21, 2017 by Washuyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 825 Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Washuyama said: Unless there is a change in the number of ranks/slots in each division. For example, between Haru and Natsu 1967, Makuuchi went from M15w as the lowest to M12w as the lowest and Juryo from J18w to J13w. A quick glance here and here shows a number of rikishi that got KK and were "demoted." In reality they moved up (if you count # of rikishi from Y1e to Jk-last) but were moved from Juryo to Makushita. That's true, although that really was an exceptional case; a result of the decision to allow rikishi from the same ichimon to fight each other and thereby reduce the number of sekitori needed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,287 Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) There have also been actual deviations from the "can't get demoted" rule, though. In juryo, the last one seems to have been after Aki 1970. That's true, although that really was an exceptional case; a result of the decision to allow rikishi from the same ichimon to fight each other and thereby reduce the number of sekitori needed. Do you have a source on that? I'd never heard of those two decisions being causally related, but that doesn't mean much - it does make intuitive sense since there were only a couple of years in between, but I never thought about that before. Edited January 21, 2017 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 825 Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Asashosakari said: Do you have a source on that? I'd never heard of those two decisions being causally related, but that doesn't mean much - it does make intuitive sense since there were only a couple of years in between, but I never thought about that before. Lora Sharnoff in Grand Sumo says the ichimon rule was brought in so the Kyokai could cut down on the number of sekitori by allowing them more possible opponents close in rank to themselves. Like you say it makes sense, although it would be nice if another source could corroborate it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuroyama 715 Posted January 22, 2017 11 hours ago, Washuyama said: Unless there is a change in the number of ranks/slots in each division. For example, between Haru and Natsu 1967, Makuuchi went from M15w as the lowest to M12w as the lowest and Juryo from J18w to J13w. A quick glance here and here shows a number of rikishi that got KK and were "demoted." In reality they moved up (if you count # of rikishi from Y1e to Jk-last) but were moved from Juryo to Makushita. Considering the lifestyle difference between Juryo and Makushita, I think that's a demotion no matter how you slice it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
