Sakura

Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

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One cool thing about having 4 is that the number of Yokozuna clashes would double, going from 3 to 6. That obviously also makes it harder for all 4 to maintain a respectable record.

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The problem with 4 is that the yokozuna dohyo-iri will take very much time each day.

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You think that's bad? With the bar obviously lowered so much by this probable Kise promotion, the entire top division is going to be ranked Yokozuna by May. Except for Tochinoshin, who'll be M4. 

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1 hour ago, Rigel said:

I checked to see if we ever had 5 concurrent yokozuna. We came very close to seeing it happen 4 times, but it never happened.

In 2 years (1918 and 1958), retirements happened one basho before what would have been the 5th yokozuna, and in 2 years (1942 and 1954), retirements happened just 2 basho before what would have been the 5th yokozuna.

I also found out that having 3 or 4 yokozuna happens a lot more often than I thought. For some reason I assumed one or two was "normal", and we were in a stretch where we have more yokozuna than normal, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 3 seems to be normal. 2 is a little below average but not unusual. 0, 1, and 4 concurrent yokozuna seem to be the unstable numbers where something is going to change soon.

Thats probably by design to some extent, they probably feel like they need a couple yokozuna to sell the sport, so when one is doing poorly but he's the only guy, he'll probably be encouraged to stick around. But if there's 3 or 4 yokozuna and another wrestler has emerged as a possible future champion, the pressure to retire probably intensifies for any yokozuna who isn't doing well.

I think its just a numbers thing. If you have 0 to 1 yokozuna there are just more wins available for non-yokozuna to perform at yokozuna records level. 5 yokozuna are splitting so many wins and start having bad records...

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21 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

A yusho equivalent means a playoff loss, whether it is 14-1,13-2 or even 12-3.  A 14-1 jun-yusho is also a yusho equivalent.  If Kisenosato is promoted, and I believe he will be, then Harumafuji and Kakuryu must win at least 12 in March. If they don't, then the pressure to retire will be immense. Hakuho also needs to start winning at least 12 again. 

Please be noted that Kise won 11-12 in most bashos in the past. 

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9 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

I think Kisenosato will win more yusho now that the pressure of winning the first yusho has been lifted. For some people it is a bigger hurdle than for others.

Yeah, I've long wondered if the first one just might open up the floodgates for him. We'll find out soon, I guess.

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The 15-year Odyssey has reaching its reward. Kise was always one of my favorites....so, so, so happy for him. Seeing him tear up hits hard.

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35 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

it the yusho is not good enough for a promotion because of weak opposition, just check asashoryu's promotionbasho and the guys around........i guess noone cares about those numbers but the gaijin-sumofreaks here in the forum....

Well, I haven't seen a yokozuna promotion at a 12 wins followed by a 13 wins. If you saw one in the record book, please share with us. 

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2 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Yeah, I've long wondered if the first one just might open up the floodgates for him. We'll find out soon, I guess.

Unless he really improves, or else he will still jun-yusho at about 12 wins.

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1 minute ago, Faustonowaka said:

Onokuni

 

Kise will do better than him.

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Neither Onokuni's 12-3 or 13-2 leading up to promotion were yusho, although he had won 2 previously. Chiyonofuji didn't have consecutive yusho before his promotion either. Futahaguro had a 12-3 and a 14-1D, and Hokutoumi (now riji-cho Hakkaku) had a 12-3Y and a 13-2. OK, that was all 30 years ago, but the criteria for yokozuna promotion are nowhere near as rigid as you might think.

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3 hours ago, ScreechingOwl said:

I expect that as a yokozuna Kisenosato will produce acceptable records, win a couple of more yusho and have a relatively short career because he's already 30. Something along the lines of Asahifuji, perhaps. Asahifuji also became a yokozuna at 30. They required him to win two consecutive yusho, but times have changed, and that isn't the end of the world.

Kise's upside is probably Musashimaru - guy who outlasts all his contemporaries through superior health, then presides over a transitional period as the new top dog and wins a bunch of yusho with mostly 13-2 scores, before the next dai-yokozuna level rikishi appears.

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2 hours ago, Rigel said:

I checked to see if we ever had 5 concurrent yokozuna. We came very close to seeing it happen 4 times, but it never happened.

In 2 years (1918 and 1958), retirements happened one basho before what would have been the 5th yokozuna, and in 2 years (1942 and 1954), retirements happened just 2 basho before what would have been the 5th yokozuna.

One notable case came in Hatsu 1953. Terukuni out, Kagamisato in.

Does anyone happen to have the picture taken after the basho that shows both of them with the other three yokozuna?

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On what date was Kagamisato promoted and on what date did Terukuni retire?  Did they overlap as Yokozuna?

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Sansho prediction:  Shukon-sho: K1e Takayasu (10-4).  Kanto-sho: M10e Takanoiwa (11-3) and M10w Sokokurai (11-3) (contingent on winning). Gino-sho: M1w Mitakeumi (10-4).

Edited by Bumpkin

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How long before the start of the last day do the sansho get announced?

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17 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

One notable case came in Hatsu 1953. Terukuni out, Kagamisato in.

Does anyone happen to have the picture taken after the basho that shows both of them with the other three yokozuna?

Ahh, looks like that is a 3rd case of a retirement one basho before what would have been a 5th

Edited by Rigel

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3 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Sansho prediction:  Shukon-sho: K1e Takayasu (10-4).  Kanto-sho: M10e Takanoiwa (11-3) and M10w Sokokurai (10-4) (contingent on winning). Gino-sho: M1w Mitakeumi (10-4).

Sokokurai is already 11-3 and what about Ichinojo? He's likely to be 11-4.

Edited by Rocks

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Plus there's the winner of the Tamawashi-Takakaze match who will be 10-5.  We could be looking at 2 winners in each category. 

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13 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

On what date was Kagamisato promoted and on what date did Terukuni retire?  Did they overlap as Yokozuna?

The retirement came first, but if I'm not mistaken Terukuni still appeared at some jungyo events in yokozuna regalia afterwards, before the next banzuke made his departure from the rank official.

Edited by Asashosakari

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23 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

One notable case came in Hatsu 1953. Terukuni out, Kagamisato in.

Does anyone happen to have the picture taken after the basho that shows both of them with the other three yokozuna?

I believe an old issue of sumo world had a photo of the '5' yokozuna.

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Funny question, what does the YDC do when its obvious that there's no promotion to discuss? Like after Hakuho goes 15-0 and finishes a mile ahead of an 11-win second place finisher, do they even meet? I'm picturing them sitting around a conference table, throwing down beer, reminisce about some crazy tournament they saw 16 years ago, start talking about family and the weather, and an hour later someone reminds the head of the YDC that they should probably gavel the meeting to a close.

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47 minutes ago, Rigel said:

Funny question, what does the YDC do when its obvious that there's no promotion to discuss? Like after Hakuho goes 15-0 and finishes a mile ahead of an 11-win second place finisher, do they even meet? I'm picturing them sitting around a conference table, throwing down beer, reminisce about some crazy tournament they saw 16 years ago, start talking about family and the weather, and an hour later someone reminds the head of the YDC that they should probably gavel the meeting to a close.

They grill and nudged the other Yokozuna to buck up or ship out.

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They sit at a conference table and look important to each other.

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