Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Morty 1,493]

Up until the start of 2016 the previous ten years in sumo have been reasonably predictable - one of a couple of Mongolians wins the yusho and that's it. Then bam, 2016 begins and since then three Japanese yusho, the sudden rise of some quality future Ozeki / Yoks - Mitakeumi, Shodai, Ichinojo, Hokotofuji; and a couple of really unpredictable rikishi in Ura and Ishiura. The next few years in sumo looks great!

Edited January 21, 2017 by Morty

[hamcornheinz 839]

The back of Kisenosato's neck sure looked happy to finally win a yusho. 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,266]

14 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

YDC top Moriya: "I want him to win tomorrow. Then I raise both arms (in favor)."

Hakkaku simply: "I want him to do another bout tomorrow."

http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017012100246&g=spo

Any win without henka will likely give him the rope, not just an overpowering win. And in case of 13 wins, they'll still discuss it http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2017/01/21/0009847730.shtml

Yeah, if they don't give it to him then I can say I was there for the Great Japan Zabuton Riot of 2017

[Dapeng 233]

Hakuho will lose tomorrow, almost 100%.  Confucius said: "A noble man help other people to obtain good things". 子曰: "君子成人之美"。

As a result,  the NSK can have an easy time to promote Kise. As I said yesterday,  next basho will be very tough. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Dapeng

[rhyen 1,833]

25 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

YDC top Moriya: "I want him to win tomorrow. Then I raise both arms (in favor)."

Hakkaku simply: "I want him to do another bout tomorrow."

http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017012100246&g=spo

Any win without henka will likely give him the rope, not just an overpowering win. And in case of 13 wins, they'll still discuss it http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2017/01/21/0009847730.shtml

Any idea what the temperature is going to be in Tokyo when he goes to the Meiji Jingu shrine for his Hatsu dohyo-iri?

[justanotherforeignsumofan 3]

They are going to make Kisenosato a Yokozuna if he wins and maybe even if he doesn't? Can't remember exactly but didn't Hakuho need 2 yusho's or at least a zensho? Not that Kisenosato wouldn't deserve it that much, can't remember him having a makekoshi in the last few years. Oh well, let's see if he does beat Hakuho tomorrow...

Edited January 21, 2017 by justanotherforeignsumofan

[K. Sear 27]

I am definitely in the "promote Kisenosato immediately" camp.  If a record of jun-yusho/yusho in five of the last six tournaments isn't worthy of Yokozuna promotion I don't know what is.  The argument that he didn't have to face two Yokozuna is kind of silly since he can hardly be faulted for people withdrawing.  He's been knocking at the door for a while now, the only missing piece has finally been added.  

[Dapeng 233]

33 minutes ago, K. Sear said:

I am definitely in the "promote Kisenosato immediately" camp.  If a record of jun-yusho/yusho in five of the last six tournaments isn't worthy of Yokozuna promotion I don't know what is.  The argument that he didn't have to face two Yokozuna is kind of silly since he can hardly be faulted for people withdrawing.  He's been knocking at the door for a while now, the only missing piece has finally been added.  

These days people just got used to super yokozuna and expect every yokozuna candidate to be as good as Asashoryu and Hakuho for promotion. Actually among the 71 yokozunas, less than 15 of them ever achieved more than 10 yusho. Many retired with just a few. Kise will a decent yokozuna, although I don't see him will reach yusho-6.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Dapeng

[Akinomaki 40,271]

Newspaper extras start to appear:

from his local one, PDF: http://ibarakinews.jp/upload/pdf/20170121kisenosatoyusyo.pdf

Asahi: http://www.asahi.com/extra/articles/SDI201701217360.html

[Dwale 419]

Ah, man, Kisenosato shedding tears, wow! And I bet no shortage of fans wept; I choked up a bit myself, later. 

Favorite win of the day was Takekaze. A good day of sumo, actually, but the gravity of Kise's win/Haku's loss just eclipses everything else. Definitely going to wake up early tomorrow if I can!

[Benihana 1,921]

Totally freaked out this morning in the office, to the delight of my co-workers :) What a beautiful day. Thank you, sumo gods.

I don't care if they or if they not instantly promote Kisenosato. This basho showed that he can win and that with some of the other Y/Os in big trouble, his time now finally has come. A promotion is only a matter of time if he stays healthy.

And like others already have said, with Mitaeumi, Shodai and so on, future excitement is guaranteed.

[Akinomaki 40,271]

For May 1955, a set of 68 kimarite was defined, Jan. 1960 the old standard of 70, and Jan. 2001 12 new ones + 3 other ways of losing. Kimarite not yet used in sekitori bouts officially = since May 1955 - earlier data are just by some who watched:

• Kakezori
• Shumokuzori
• Sototasukizori (the least known kimarite of all)
• Okurikake (new since 2001)

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1768167.html

[Yubinhaad 11,626]

On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 01:30, Asashosakari said:

There are no less than three 0-6 rikishi in jonokuchi this basho. A surprisingly high number for such a small division, until the realization sets in that it's because they can't face each other as they're all from Shikihide-beya. And to add a punchline to it: Three 0-0-6 absent rikishi are joining the basho for the last bout, so naturally they're all facing the Shikihide guys... If that ends up as the expected wipeout, it'll only be the second time ever with three 0-7's in jonokuchi, and the last time it happened the division was three times as large...

As predicted the late entrants swept the board against the Shikihide trio. Momochizakura reaches double-digits with his 10th zenpai result, while Hattorizakura becomes only the third rikishi to record four consecutive zenpai results, following Hiramatsu and Takagishi.

Meanwhile, the venerable Hokutoryu suffers his first zenpai result in the 185th basho of his long career. Maybe he just doesn't like fighting every bout on odd-numbered days? (In one of those weird coincidences the same thing happened to Onojo)

Edited January 21, 2017 by Yubinhaad

[Tsubame 361]

I am not a fan of an instand yokozuna promotion. With a Yokozuna Kisenosato we will have THREE yokozunae struggling to win a basho. So at least two of them will have a "kind reminder" very basho...

[dingo 1,251]

Like many people have said in this thread, it really feels like a generation is changing, doesn't it? Lots of new hopes doing well, the current Yokozuna on a decline and Kisenosato finally getting his long-hoped-for yusho. 

And yeah, it wasn't Kisenosato's fault that he didn't face the other Yokozuna besides Hakuho, so it would be silly to hold it against him. Besides, in their current shape Kakuryuu and Harumafuji wouldn't have presented much of a challenge to Kisenosato anyway. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by dingo

[SumpaX 23]

2 minutes ago, dingo said:

And yeah, it wasn't Kisenosato's fault that he didn't face the other Yokozuna,so it would be silly to hold it against him. Besides, in their current shape Kakuryuu and Harumafuji wouldn't have presented much of a challenge to Kisenosato anyway. 

I guess if he had to do it (win another one) with all 3 yokozunas healthy, he wouldn't be able to do that and that just speaks volumes. It seems tho like there are some very one sided fan boys for Kise here, not trying to be mean.

[dingo 1,251]

2 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

I guess if he had to do it (win another one) with all 3 yokozunas healthy, he wouldn't be able to do that and that just speaks volumes. It seems tho like there are some very one sided fan boys for Kise here, not trying to be mean.

I don't like dealing in what ifs and imo speculation should never be the basis for evaluation, only real results. Besides Kisenosato did win against all three Yokozuna last basho so except for a gut feeling there's even no real basis for saying he might not have done so this basho.

Taking a parallel from tennis one might say that if Nadal would've stayed healthy then Djokovich would never have won a Paris open title and completed a career grand slam. But this is all a big what if. 

[Rocks 1,808]

9 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

I guess if he had to do it (win another one) with all 3 yokozunas healthy, he wouldn't be able to do that and that just speaks volumes. It seems tho like there are some very one sided fan boys for Kise here, not trying to be mean.

You don't compete against past or future players, you compete today. 

[JariM 29]

Awesome to see Kise finally getting his first yusho. I have been waiting for this for many years.

1 minute ago, Tsubame said:

I am not a fan of an instand yokozuna promotion. With a Yokozuna Kisenosato we will have THREE yokozunae struggling to win a basho. So at least two of them will have a "kind reminder" very basho...

Yes, but then again scoring results on the same level as Yokozunae does mean that he is performing on the same level. Let's not forget that he has a winning record over Yokozuna Kakuryu and that last year he went 3-2 against Yokozuna Hakuho.

[808morgan 809]

2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

You don't compete against past or future players, you compete today. 

Right, then others bodies failed them. So he has gone on and won.

[SumpaX 23]

2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

You don't compete against past or future players, you compete today. 

True but on the same line it isn't convincing, so lets see how tomorrow plays out and what the guys who really count say.

My oppinion still stands, he isn't getting any younger either. (man i never realised how many guys are into kise). 

[Benevolance 2,484]

I don't think it's a matter of being into Kise, but acknowledging that he's done everything yokozuna-esque but win a yusho. And now that he's done that his tsuna seems inevitable. My guess is that, win-or-lose vs Hakuho, Kise gets a rope. 

Harumafuji and Kakuryu did much the same thing to get their promotions; both seized excellent advantage of a weak roster when the opportunity presented it. Kise's method seemed more like grinding out the top dogs until they came down to his level. Certainly the fact that Kise's the only guy at the top that isn't facing recurring injury problems is in his favour, and that's the iron man part of sumo. 

There will be people on here that think he deserves it, and people who don't, but none of our opinions will matter because it is entirely up to a group of old men in Tokyo who don't really care what we think .

My mom says they care what I think. 

[Fukurou 534]

On 11/28/2016 at 13:55, Kintamayama said:

The YDC convened. Moriya the head said no way even a yusho will get him promoted. Some other members are of the same opinion. Moriya said Kisenosato lost to three hiramaku rikishi and was two wins behind the yusho winner Kakuryuu. "It's a jun-yusho where he wasn't really part of the yusho race..If he gets the yusho, I will not be raising both my hands in approval of his promotion.." said Moriya. The others pointed out his day 13 loss to Tochinoshin. "That made a bad impression," they said.

 

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

YDC top Moriya: "I want him to win tomorrow. Then I raise both arms (in favor)."

Hakkaku simply: "I want him to do another bout tomorrow."

http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017012100246&g=spo

Any win without henka will likely give him the rope, not just an overpowering win. And in case of 13 wins, they'll still discuss it http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2017/01/21/0009847730.shtml

I so enjoy watching the YDC tripping over their own proclamations. Especially when it's someone who comes across as a huge ego, like Moriya.

I wonder whatever happened to Mrs Uchidate, anyone know?

[orandashoho 720]

You don't get a rope based on past performance. It's the current performance that counts, nothing else.
Win or lose tomorrow he will be on a tsuna run next basho. Defeating Hakuho will make a difference, but if it is good enough for an outright promotion it would have to be truly spectacular.

[Jakusotsu 5,904]

Still, the past performance seems to be a factor as well. Otherwise Miyabiyama should have been promoted to Ozeki twice.