Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Jojo 11]

6 hours ago, Sakura said:

There are a lot of trophies.

This little gem of a thread from way back is a fantastic source of information on the trophies and prizes, obviously a few of them have changed over time, but the informations and stories are priceless. (Thanks a lot to those who contributed back then, Orion and Fay notably)

 

 

[Tsubame 350]

14 hours ago, bettega said:

Which Yokozuna you think will retire in the next few basho? Ama seems the less fit. Or maybe, just maybe, a surprise Intai from Hak.

What about Yokozuna Kisenosato?

[Benihana 1,872]

2 hours ago, Tsubame said:

What about Yokozuna Kisenosato?

Not funny. At the moment he is the healthiest of all Y/Os. Something really baaad must happen for him to retire...for example transforming into Godzilla and obliterating Tokyo.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Benihana

[rhyen 1,776]

Unlikely. Even if Kisenosato doesn't win another yusho this year or next year, he will escape reprimand so long as he finishes above the other yokozuna.

[Kishinoyama 574]

1 hour ago, rhyen said:

Unlikely. Even if Kisenosato doesn't win another yusho this year or next year, he will escape reprimand so long as he finishes above the other yokozuna.

Ummmmm if he finishes above the other yokozuna then he should win some more yusho in the next year or two.....

[Masumasumasu 902]

That's my boy!

[kuroimori 1,634]

20 hours ago, Benihana said:

Not funny. At the moment he is the healthiest of all Y/Os. Something really baaad must happen for him to retire...for example transforming into Godzilla and obliterating Tokyo.

Maybe this suggestion wasn't related to health issues... 

[YoungSumo 93]

I see Kise outlasting all 3 current Yokozuna. Look at the last 6 basho and compare the 4 guys.

Kisenosato: 1 Yusho, 4 Jun-Yusho, 74 total wins (13,13,12,10,12,14)

Hakuho: 2 Yusho, 0 Jun-Yusho, 61 total wins (14,15,10,0,11,11)

Harumafuji: 1 Yusho, 0 Jun-Yusho, 59 total wins (9,10,13,12,11,4)

Kakuryu: 1 Yusho, 0 Jun-Yusho, 52 total wins (10,11,2,10,14,5)

Kisenosato is both the healthiest and most consistent of the 4. Looking forward to his performances, hope he can add a couple more Yusho to his resume.

[robnplunder 974]

Looking back, this was another exciting basho despite all the kyujos by the top rikishis: Haruma, Kakuryu, Goeido, ...  

• Kise yusho watch was a drama by itself
• Mitakeumi showed he has been progressing wonderfully and can someday become an Ozeki.   Shodai & Endo held their own but didn't meet many fans' expectation.
• Ura ... what can we say about this kid?   He is always exciting to watch. 
• Ichinojo, Takanoiwa, Arawashi, Chiyoshoma, ... showed the Mongolians want a piece of Ozeki rank, too.
• More signs of changing of the guard - Aminishiki - sigh.  Even the early 30 somethings Yokozunas Hak, Haruma, Kak are showing more and more vulnerability - so many kinboshis.  Teruno & Kotoshogiku seemed that are at the end of their stay at Ozeki rank.    The good news is that there are many young guns coming through the rank to take their spot.
• The last basho's hero Ishiura held his own and we will see him in the next basho.
• Enough of Hattorizkura already.  He may be a cult figure for some but is making a mockery of Japanese professional sumo. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by robnplunder

[Bumpkin 438]

I believe Hakuho has one more spurt of yushos. Two or three more. Get to forty total and break Kaio's record. Then retire as the GOAT. I predict intai in Hatsu 2018. Harumafuji will be lucky to win one more yusho. He will probably intai in Nagoya, the site of his last yusho. Kakuryu should win several more. He will stay active for awhile longer. Kisenosato will continue as he has in the past. Getting 11 or 12 wins and a bunch of jun-yushos. The next generation of Takayasu, Mitakeumi, Shodai and Hokutofuji is coming on strong.

[Yubinhaad 11,319]

I didn't notice at the time but Aichi prefecture's 24-year stint in the sekitori ranks came to an abrupt end in 2016, with Tamaasuka and Akiseyama dropping from Juryo after the Natsu basho and finally Dewahayate after Nagoya.

I only noticed that because on the brink at the moment is Chiba prefecture and their only sekitori Asahisho - make-koshi in the Haru basho could end their sekitori presence which began in 1974 Hatsu, the third-longest ongoing streak I believe.


Happy for Arashio-oyakata (former Komusubi Oyutaka), he stuck by Sokokurai throughout his two-year exile and now they get the reward of a first sansho for the heya.

Down the ranks, Shunba finished with a fine 6-1 record and should be making his Makushita debut in March at the age of 35. It's never too late!

 

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 22:59, Asashosakari said:

One notable case came in Hatsu 1953. Terukuni out, Kagamisato in.

Does anyone happen to have the picture taken after the basho that shows both of them with the other three yokozuna?

Are you thinking of this one from November 1954? It was taken at the Ozumo Oza Kettei-sen tournament in Osaka, which used to be held after the Aki basho. Tochinishiki (left) was promoted to Yokozuna after winning the yusho in 1954 Aki, while Azumafuji (centre) retired at the end of it. Quite an impressive sight.

[robnplunder 974]

11 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

Down the ranks, Shunba finished with a fine 6-1 record and should be making his Makushita debut in March at the age of 35. It's never too late!

 

You peaked my interest and I went to the database site to check him out.   His height yo-yo'd up and down from 163 to 167 cm - still very tiny to modern sumo standard.    I will be sure to follow him along in the next basho.  

[lackmaker 419]

46 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Looking back, this was another exciting basho despite all the kyujos by the top rikishis: Haruma, Kakuryu, Goeido, ...  

• Kise yusho watch was a drama by itself
• Mitakeumi showed he has been progressing wonderfully and can someday become an Ozeki.   Shodai & Endo held their own but didn't meet many fans' expectation.
• Ura ... what can we say about this kid?   He is always exciting to watch. 
• Ichinojo, Takanoiwa, Arawashi, Chiyoshoma, ... showed the Mongolians want a piece of Ozeki rank, too.
• More signs of changing of the guard - Aminishiki - sigh.  Even the early 30 somethings Yokozunas Hak, Haruma, Kak are showing more and more vulnerability - so many kinboshis.  Teruno & Kotoshogiku seemed that are at the end of their stay at Ozeki rank.    The good news is that there are many young guns coming through the rank to take their spot.
• The last basho's hero Ishiura held his own and we will see him in the next basho.
• Enough of Hattorizkura already.  He may be a cult figure for some but is making a mockery of Japanese professional sumo.
•  
• All true but;
• Okinoumi 4-11
• Tochiozan 3-12
• Myogiryu 4-11
• Things move on.

Edited January 24, 2017 by lackmaker

[RabidJohn 1,564]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

 Shodai & Endo held their own but didn't meet many fans' expectation.

Endo yeah, but how many people really expected Shodai to get KK as a shin-sekiwake? I thought there was a slim chance. He's still shadowing Mitakeumi while doing slightly better (i.e. shin-sekiwake vs shin-komusubi, 7-8 vs 6-9 as shin-sanyaku, fall to komusubi [hopefully] vs fall to M1, etc), which is more or less exactly what I expected.

Hmm, it's just occurred to me that maybe this is the reason Moti expects Shodai to win the ozeki race...

But Mitakeumi is still leading the way by 1 basho in their strangely resonant makuuchi careers at the moment, and that 11-4+G at M1 is the groundwork done to set up an ozeki run for May. Wouldn't that be something!

What has to happen in March, of course, is Shodai going 12-3 in order to keep the chain of coincidence marching on!

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,204]

I'll believe Shodai going to Ozeki once he starts getting low at tachiai. He's taking the tachi part too literally.

[robnplunder 974]

18 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I'll believe Shodai going to Ozeki once he starts getting low at tachiai. He's taking the tachi part too literally.

That is one major difference between Mitakeumi and Shodai.   Mita seems to be fearless at tachiai.   Shodai is a bit tentative, almost expecting a slap in the face as he goes forward.  

 

If the form holds, it is Shodai's turn to do one up on Mitakeumi in the next basho.   Following these two kids' career was very interesting, one mirroring each other with Mitakeumi always a half step ahead.   They are getting better to step into Ozeki ranks as Teruno & Koto started vacate their spots.  They will also compete with the Mongolian contingent.   Ichinojo actually looked good.  So did Takanoiwa.   Arawashi & Chiyshoma showed a bit of flesh as well.   

[Jakusotsu 5,501]

8 hours ago, robnplunder said:

They are getting better to step into Ozeki ranks as Teruno & Koto started vacate their spots.  They will also compete with the Mongolian contingent.   Ichinojo actually looked good.  So did Takanoiwa.   Arawashi & Chiyshoma showed a bit of flesh as well.   

Arawashi?? Even if he miraculously activates high-octane and becomes Ozeki by November, he'd be the fifth oldest to get promoted in modern history. Three basho longer and he'd be the oldest...

[RabidJohn 1,564]

18 hours ago, robnplunder said:

That is one major difference between Mitakeumi and Shodai.   Mita seems to be fearless at tachiai.   Shodai is a bit tentative, almost expecting a slap in the face as he goes forward.

Yep, sometimes Shodai looks plain scared at the tachi-ai! I commented early on in the basho that Mita appeared to have overcome the mental barrier about facing Y/O that Shodai hasn't yet, blasting into all his aite regardless of their rank. Post-tachi-ai, I think Shodai has the edge over Mita in terms of technique, but Mita is currently way ahead in fighting spirit. Shodai needs to get his head into the right place and start hunting for the advantages a good tachi-ai will give him. He'll get there soon, I hope.

It seems to be a widely held view that both Mitakeumi and Shodai will make ozeki at some point. Is it too soon to wonder if either of them could join Wajima as an exception that proves the college-boys-don't-make-yokozuna rule?

[robnplunder 974]

9 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

 

It seems to be a widely held view that both Mitakeumi and Shodai will make ozeki at some point. Is it too soon to wonder if either of them could join Wajima as an exception that proves the college-boys-don't-make-yokozuna rule?

I got into sumo only in recent years and don't know/care about the bold above.   Mita/Shodai shouldn't care, too .   With so many college grads coming into sumo & making good progress, the "rule" is bound to be broken.

[RabidJohn 1,564]

59 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

I got into sumo only in recent years and don't know/care

Well it was already a 'rule' when I first saw sumo in the mid-80s and there were a fair few ex-college-sumo rikishi back then too. I agree, they shouldn't care, and I hope one of them can make it, but the more time goes on the higher a mental hurdle it must be for them to face, because it's not a superstition: it's a cold, hard fact that only one of them ever did it!

[robnplunder 974]

5 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Well it was already a 'rule' when I first saw sumo in the mid-80s and there were a fair few ex-college-sumo rikishi back then too. I agree, they shouldn't care, and I hope one of them can make it, but the more time goes on the higher a mental hurdle it must be for them to face, because it's not a superstition: it's a cold, hard fact that only one of them ever did it!

Thanks for the info.   That is rather an odd record given that a good number of college rikishi join the pro ranks each year. 

Back to Mita & Shodai, I don't see their Yokozuna potential yet. Perhaps, in another 2 - 3 years after the current crop of Yokozuna & Ozeki retire, they will make a run for it and be the first Yokozuna from college ranks.

[RabidJohn 1,564]

3 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

That is rather an odd record given that a good number of college rikishi join the pro ranks each year.

It's not any odder than the other undeniable fact that a hell of a lot of yokozuna came from impoverished backgrounds, which is actually not odd at all. A hard upbringing toughens you up.

I can't help putting the two together, in one complementary pattern.

[Maguroyama 27]

Even in the midst of the joy about yokozuna Kisenosato, I can't overlook the terribility that is ozeki Terunofuji... In the last year he has scored 8-7, 2-13, 8-7, 4-11, 8-7, 4-11. Those of you who are better than me at checking stats: has any ozeki in the 6-basho-a-year-era ever "managed" 56 losses in any 6-basho period? And has anyone ozeki ever had three double-digit make-koshi in a year? I think not, but these are things one wants to know. The craziest thing is that he's still ozeki!

[Asojima 2,855]

1 hour ago, Maguroyama said:

... The craziest thing is that he's still ozeki!

The craziest thing is that despite getting some gimme wins to escape kadoban, he has not gone kyujo in any of his protected basho.  His insistence on needlessly struggling through 15 days and avoiding a opportunity to recover is pure lunacy.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Asojima

[RabidJohn 1,564]

I don't get Terunofuji.

He needs what, 6 months, to get himself fixed and properly recuperate? He could have gone kyujo from that 1st 8-7KK, missed 2 basho and probably easily got his rank straight back with 10 from sekiwake. Even if he missed three he'd probably still be low M/upper J and could get back to ozeki within a year, and probably yokozuna not long after.

If he would only give himself a chance to mend...